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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
« Reply #135 on: December 05, 2024, 06:59:31 AM »
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  • As I understand Catholic eschatology, you have misplaced the reign of peace in the chronology.

    Indeed.


    I see Pax is still peddling his nonsense (my opinion, of course; the Church hasn't condemned his "Jєωιѕн" dreams, and in fact has shown itself to be enamored of them) about mass conversions of Jєωs "according to the flesh"(Rom. 9:6-8 etc.), the Great Catholic Monarch/King who rules on this earth (where Christ's kingdom, ah hem, ISN"T - John 18:36) for a period of a thousand years or whatever of "world peace," etc.

    It's basically the revenge, in terms of eschatology, of the Pharisees (Jєωs) and their obsession with worldly flesh, power, and not of the things from above. Lord, the people of God have been plagued by this "earthly kingdom" nonsense under both testaments and covenants:


    Quote
    Luke 18

    20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    21 Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.  22 And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see one day of the Son of man; and you shall not see it.  23 And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them:  24 For as the lightning that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven, so shall the Son of man be in his day.  25 But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.

    26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.  27 They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all.  28 Likewise as it came to pass, in the days of Lot: they did eat and drink, they bought and sold, they planted and built.  29 And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.  30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man shall be revealed.

    31 In that hour, he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and he that shall be in the field, in like manner, let him not return back.  32 Remember Lot's wife.  33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it.  34 I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.  35 Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left: two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    36 They answering, say to him: Where, Lord?  37 Who said to them: Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together.

    There are two "peaces" if you will, both referred to in this passage from Luke. There is the peace that begins with the regeneration by the Holy Ghost, which believers have always experienced, but which was explicitly and formally given at Pentecost. The conversion of the saints into that kingdom since Pentecost is the Millennium of Revelation 20. It is within, and comes not with observation.

    Then there is the peace that comes with Christ's return in judgment, the eternal kingdom when the last enemy, death, is destroyed, etc. the Parousia, or Second Coming. It is referred to in Luke as "the day when the Son of Man shall be revealed."

    Of course, this latter coming is also referred to in Acts 1, where, interestingly enough, the Apostles bring up the "kingdom" again:


    Quote

    Acts 1

    6 They therefore who were come together, asked him, saying: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  7 But he said to them: It is not for you to know the times or moments, which the Father hath put in his own power:  8 But you shall receive the power of the Holy Ghost coming upon you, and you shall be witnesses unto me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and even to the uttermost part of the earth.  9 And when he had said these things, while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight.  10 And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments.


    11 Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven.

    This world/earth will not know a "golden age of peace" until Christ brings and unites the internal reign of the saints with its external manifestation and defeat of death and all enemies with His coming in judgment from Heaven. Period.


    The whole "mass conversion" of the Jєωs thing is based primarily on a sloppy reading and exegesis of Romans 11:26, which I present in context (but all of Romans 11 should be kept in mind, particularly the references to the "remnant" in Romans 11:1-5):


    Quote
    Romans 11

     25 For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in. 26  And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

    The "mass conversion" people make a big deal of the "until," as if it implies a mass conversion of Jєωs after the "fulness of the Gentiles comes in." And then they rely upon, "all Israel should be saved," taking the "all" as inclusive of every Jєω. Of course, as has been pointed out, there's that bit about the Antichrist being a Jєω, so, it's not every one in that case. Then, how many? 90%? 75%? Once you recognize it's not "all" as in every single one," you see that it's a "remnant," no matter what percentage . . . could be 25%, 10%, 5% etc. Point is, less than 100% is a remnant, which is what Paul said in Romans 11:1-5.

    But more importantly, focus on the "And so." It means - and is translated that way in other translations - "thus," or "in this manner or way." For example:


    Quote

    Catholic Public Domain Version

    And in this way, all of Israel may be saved, just as it was written: “From Zion shall arrive he who delivers, and he shall turn impiety away from Jacob.

    New American Bible

    and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;

    New International Version

    and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

    English Standard Version

    And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

    Contemporary English Version

    In this way all of Israel will be saved, as the Scriptures say, "From Zion someone will come to rescue us. Then Jacob's descendants will stop being evil.

    Good News Translation

    And this is how all Israel will be saved. As the scripture says, "The Savior will come from Zion and remove all wickedness from the descendants of Jacob.


    The Catholic Church is Israel. We, Gentile converts, are Israel . . . with Jєωιѕн converts into the Church. There is no longer any Jєω or Greek. Gal. 3:28 etc. Please get this; drill in it.

     And so "how," or "in what manner or way," is all Israel saved? The text answers: when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. When all of the elect in the "second" group - since salvation was formerly "of the first group, the Jєωs" (John 4:22). When all the Gentiles come in, and salvation is finished among all the peoples or nations, then all Israel will be saved. Again . . . we, with fellow, formerly Jєωιѕн, believers, are Israel.

    So what about the "until"? It doesn't mean, after that, a change will take place, or that when that "til" or "until" is reached, something different will happen afterwards. It means they'll be blind until that point, without reference to a time beyond it, or any implication that things will be different after.

    Consider Matthew 1:25 -

     25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    The Church teaches Mary's perpetual virginity. The word "til" is Matt. 1:25 is the same word in the Vulgate as "until" in Romans 11:25, "donec." It doesn't mean, after Jesus was born, Joseph "knew" Mary, and it doesn't mean all or the mass of Jєωs will become "unblind" after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. Period.

    Again, the Jєω mass conversion thing is based upon a sloppy reading of Rom. 11:25-6, or a reading of Old Testament passages in a fleshly or Pharisaical way when the Word of God plainly tells us there in no longer any Jєω or Greek, etc. Hear, hear!!!!!

    And Scripture is likewise clear that the Jєωs "according to the flesh" have been rejected. Period.

    For example, Galatians 4:


    Quote
    21 Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, have you not read the law?  22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, and the other by a free woman.  23 But he who was of the bondwoman, was born according to the flesh: but he of the free woman, was by promise.  24 Which things are said by an allegory. For these are the two testaments. The one from mount Sina, engendering unto bondage; which is Agar:  25 For Sina is a mountain in Arabia, which hath affinity to that Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


    26 But that Jerusalem, which is above, is free: which is our mother.  27 For it is written: Rejoice, thou barren, that bearest not: break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for many are the children of the desolate, more than of her that hath a husband.  28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.  29 But as then he, that was born according to the flesh, persecuted him that was after the spirit; so also it is now.  30 But what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son; for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.

    31 So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free: by the freedom wherewith Christ has made us free.

    What is ambiguous about "cast out" or "shall not be heir"? Paul has just told us, in Galatians 3:

    28 There is neither Jєω nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.  29 And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.

    The "flesh profiteth nothing," to quote Our Lord. John 6:64. Nothing. The Jєωs "according to the flesh" were cast off; done; finished. They rejected God qua a people, and god rejected them qua a people. Period.

    This "mass conversion," "golden age of peace," "Great Catholic Monarch" and "world rule," is the revenge of the Pharisees and their preoccupation with the things of this world. On steroids.

    Not only is this nonsense not infallible (contrary to Pax's assertions), it is not official Magisterial teaching. For good reason, as it's nonsense and false, a betrayal of the Spirit and the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    To all at Cathinfo, including Pax of course, if I don't return (though I do read at times and visit), have a Merry Christmas, and God Bless.

    DR




    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #136 on: December 05, 2024, 07:18:36 AM »
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  • There is so much more, but I left out a very important point. The point that "all" Israel will be saved when all the elect among the Gentiles are fully brought in is confirmed in Acts 15. You can see the consistency in Scripture.


    Quote
    Acts 15

    14 Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name.  15 And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written:

    16 After these things I will return, and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and the ruins thereof I will rebuild, and I will set it up:  17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.


    The "tabernacle of David" is "rebuilt" through the gathering of the Gentiles, or the "residue of men." In this way "all Israel" is saved.
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #137 on: December 05, 2024, 07:40:28 AM »
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  • Good Heavens. Please be precise.

    Are you saying that in The End every single remaining Jєω is the "remnant" that will be saved?

    I am reasonably knowledgeable about Jєωs and about The End. I have never seen anyone (except the heretic josh987654321), Magisterial or otherwise, claim that every single Jєω alive on The Last Day will convert. Everything Magisterial that I have read teaches that from Christ's Ministry until The Last Day a remnant will be saved—here and there, as it were, NOT here and there until The Last Day and then on the Last Day every single one will convert. I have never seen such a bizarre and qualified teaching from the Magisterium. If you have it, let's see it. Not speculation, but Magisterium!

    If you have Magisterium saying that every single Jєω alive on The Last Day will convert, I would submit to authentic Magisterium and, if I have been wrong, I will abjure my error.

    I'll add this. There is virtual unanimity among the Fathers that The Anti-Christ will be a Jєω and that he will be destroyed, not converted, on The Last Day.  That would certainly be at least one Jєω of the remnant left alive on The Last Day who did not convert, but damned instead. To me, that one exception alone makes the "every single one on The Last Day"  claim to be an absurd, untenable, and heretical claim.
    I haven't followed the many posts between you and Josh very closely. 

    Admittedly, it's not a topic that I have researched (and I only posted Bishop Williamson's comments because that was recent in my mind), so I do not believe I can debate it properly. 

    Since you have researched it, can you provide the Magisterial teaching that you use to come to the conclusion that the Church teaches that not all Jews will convert at the end of the world? 

    It seems that most here are using Scripture and giving their own opinions on how to interpret it.  I haven't seen any Magisterial teachings specifically on this topic (all vs some Jews).  Even the Catholic bibles don't seem to have Catholic commentary on that part of Romans 11.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #138 on: December 05, 2024, 07:55:21 AM »
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  • Quote
    I see Pax is still peddling his nonsense (my opinion, of course; the Church hasn't condemned his "Jєωιѕн" dreams, and in fact has shown itself to be enamored of them) about mass conversions of Jєωs "according to the flesh"(Rom. 9:6-8 etc.), the Great Catholic Monarch/King who rules on this earth (where Christ's kingdom, ah hem, ISN"T - John 18:36) for a period of a thousand years or whatever of "world peace," etc.
    1.  Your reading comprehension is very poor.  I already said that "millenialism" is a heresy.

    2.  I've never said the Great Monarch would rule for 1,000 years or even longer than 100.
    3.  Our Lady promised a "certain period of peace".  Accept or reject what She said.
    4.  The Church Fathers are the ones who, taking St Paul's words in Scripture, taught that the Jєωιѕн Nation will convert before the Last Day.

    An impressive list of Fathers can be brought out who refer to this future conversion as a fact. Included are Tertullian, Origen, Saint Hilary, Saint Ambrose, Saint John Chrysostom, Saint Jerome, Saint Cyril of Alexandria, Saint Prosper of Aquitaine, Saint Gregory the Great, Saint Isidore, Saint Bede the Venerable, and Saint Anselm. Saint Cyril of Alexandria says this: “Towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself. Everybody who knows Holy Scripture is aware that, in the course of time, this people will return to the love of Christ by the submission of faith…. Yes, one day, after the conversion of the Gentiles, Israel will be converted, and the Jews will be astonished at the treasure they will find in Christ” (Commentary on Genesis, Bk. 5).

    https://catholicism.org/ad-rem-no-310.html

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #139 on: December 05, 2024, 07:56:53 AM »
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  • Quote
    His acknowledgment of exceptions means "not every single Jєω" alive on The Last Day will convert to Christ.
    The Jєωιѕн nation will convert, generally speaking.  This is the common opinion of the Church Fathers, as alluded to by St Paul in Scripture.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #140 on: December 05, 2024, 09:32:54 AM »
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  • I haven't followed the many posts between you and Josh very closely. 

    Admittedly, it's not a topic that I have researched (and I only posted Bishop Williamson's comments because that was recent in my mind), so I do not believe I can debate it properly. 

    Since you have researched it, can you provide the Magisterial teaching that you use to come to the conclusion that the Church teaches that not all Jєωs will convert at the end of the world?

    It seems that most here are using Scripture and giving their own opinions on how to interpret it.  I haven't seen any Magisterial teachings specifically on this topic (all vs some Jєωs).  Even the Catholic bibles don't seem to have Catholic commentary on that part of Romans 11.
    I am at a disadvantage because (1) as I said before, I make no claim of being expert on eschatology and (2) almost my entire Judaica library is boxed in preparation to move. All I have at hand is what is on my computer. What is there to misunderstand about "only a remnant will be saved"? Your claim of "interpretation" seems of the same species as Bill Clinton's "What is the meaning of 'is'?"

    I have attached the best compendium I have at hand. The screen shots of the Table of Contents show that almost every aspect of the mass conversion claim and the claimants is covered comprehensively. As the subtitle states, the compendium was prepared to rebut the claims of Fr. Mawdsley who has been quoted here.

    For those who struggle to find any excuse to avoid reading or challenging the Magisterial evidence adduced, I am sure they will contrive some animus against the author (as when I introduced Hoffman's book) or complain that there is no imprimatur (as we have also seen recently). For that ilk, "Any excuse is better than no excuse," eh?

    The file can be download below.





    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #141 on: December 05, 2024, 12:17:22 PM »
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  • I am at a disadvantage because (1) as I said before, I make no claim of being expert on eschatology and (2) almost my entire Judaica library is boxed in preparation to move. All I have at hand is what is on my computer. What is there to misunderstand about "only a remnant will be saved"? Your claim of "interpretation" seems of the same species as Bill Clinton's "What is the meaning of 'is'?"

    I have attached the best compendium I have at hand. The screen shots of the Table of Contents show that almost every aspect of the mass conversion claim and the claimants is covered comprehensively. As the subtitle states, the compendium was prepared to rebut the claims of Fr. Mawdsley who has been quoted here.

    For those who struggle to find any excuse to avoid reading or challenging the Magisterial evidence adduced, I am sure they will contrive some animus against the author (as when I introduced Hoffman's book) or complain that there is no imprimatur (as we have also seen recently). For that ilk, "Any excuse is better than no excuse," eh?

    The file can be download below.




    Thank you for the info. I'm hoping I can open it without having to download the whole file.

    No, what I meant by "interpretation" is that certain Bible verses have a very specific interpretation made/taught by the Church (ie. Magisterium).  An example would be "This is my Body...".  The Church interpretation is often explained/described in Catholic biblical commentaries or in catechisms, etc.  In this case, I have not seen such explanation put forth for Romans 11:26.  This leads me to believe that there isn't a specific Church/magisterial interpretation for it. 

    I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, but I see you're not happy with those who have questioned some sources.  As Catholics, shouldn't we?  I would want to know that I am at least reading a pre-Vatican II source.  Isn't this what Trads typically do when investigating any Church teaching?


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #142 on: December 05, 2024, 04:29:37 PM »
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  • Thank you for the info. I'm hoping I can open it without having to download the whole file.

    No, what I meant by "interpretation" is that certain Bible verses have a very specific interpretation made/taught by the Church (ie. Magisterium).  An example would be "This is my Body...".  The Church interpretation is often explained/described in Catholic biblical commentaries or in catechisms, etc.  In this case, I have not seen such explanation put forth for Romans 11:26.  This leads me to believe that there isn't a specific Church/magisterial interpretation for it. 

    I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, but I see you're not happy with those who have questioned some sources.  As Catholics, shouldn't we?  I would want to know that I am at least reading a pre-Vatican II source.  Isn't this what Trads typically do when investigating any Church teaching?
    I am totally in favor of judicious skepticism.

    That said, there is nothing judicious about refusing to first read and then judge the content of references simply because one has an animus against the source.

    Unfortunately skepticism rises to crippling levels in a few posters here. If I can read the #$%%^ damned effing rabbis, the ignorati here can certainly deign to read Hoffman and Sungenis without peeing their panties.

    If they read a source and then make honest criticism, fine, but the intellectual dishonesty here is rising with the influx of newbie trolls (and a couple of vestigial trolls as well).

    Most recently I think about the newbie jerk "AMDG forever" (or more likely, a returned banned troll) who self-identified as a sede, but insisted it was sinful to read Hoffman because it had no imprimatur.  What an effing hypocrite!  A sede should know that the Church is in disarray and so requiring a trustworthy imprimatur restricts us to the past. Well… be my guest… dress in a frock coat and read nothing new.  :facepalm:

    Consider that while Sungenis's book has no imprimatur, he cites St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope St. Gregory the Great, et al. and demonstrates persuasively that Fr. Mawdsley's book is untrustworthy.  Sungenis is not infallible, but his sources are. Living entirely in the past with your head up your… um… dusty books is absurd.

    P.S. What's the big deal about downloading an entire 2.8Mb file?  Are you still using "floppy disks"?


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #143 on: December 05, 2024, 05:01:15 PM »
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  • I am at a disadvantage because (1) as I said before, I make no claim of being expert on eschatology and (2) almost my entire Judaica library is boxed in preparation to move. All I have at hand is what is on my computer. What is there to misunderstand about "only a remnant will be saved"? Your claim of "interpretation" seems of the same species as Bill Clinton's "What is the meaning of 'is'?"

    I have attached the best compendium I have at hand. The screen shots of the Table of Contents show that almost every aspect of the mass conversion claim and the claimants is covered comprehensively. As the subtitle states, the compendium was prepared to rebut the claims of Fr. Mawdsley who has been quoted here.

    For those who struggle to find any excuse to avoid reading or challenging the Magisterial evidence adduced, I am sure they will contrive some animus against the author (as when I introduced Hoffman's book) or complain that there is no imprimatur (as we have also seen recently). For that ilk, "Any excuse is better than no excuse," eh?

    The file can be download below.





    Mark,

    Thanks for attaching Sungenis's work. Reading now. Good stuff. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #144 on: December 05, 2024, 07:55:17 PM »
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  • You are most welcome. Obviously I disagree with Bob on some points, but he has produced commentary that has edified me considerably. 

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #145 on: December 05, 2024, 10:55:37 PM »
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  • Sungenis denies article one of Copernican Doctrine--that E Rev around S. :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #146 on: December 05, 2024, 11:05:34 PM »
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  • Sungenis denies article one of Copernican Doctrine--that E Rev around S. :popcorn:
    Roscoe smoked a doobie and has his shit-stirring stick in hand. :popcorn:

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #147 on: December 06, 2024, 06:31:59 AM »
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  • 4.  The Church Fathers are the ones who, taking St Paul's words in Scripture, taught that the Jєωιѕн Nation will convert before the Last Day.

    An impressive list of Fathers can be brought out who refer to this future conversion as a fact. Included are Tertullian, Origen, Saint Hilary, Saint Ambrose, Saint John Chrysostom, Saint Jerome, Saint Cyril of Alexandria, Saint Prosper of Aquitaine, Saint Gregory the Great, Saint Isidore, Saint Bede the Venerable, and Saint Anselm. Saint Cyril of Alexandria says this: “Towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself. Everybody who knows Holy Scripture is aware that, in the course of time, this people will return to the love of Christ by the submission of faith…. Yes, one day, after the conversion of the Gentiles, Israel will be converted, and the Jews will be astonished at the treasure they will find in Christ” (Commentary on Genesis, Bk. 5).

    https://catholicism.org/ad-rem-no-310.html
    It is interesting that the St Benedict Center's article linked above starts out by saying this:

    Though it is not a defined dogma, the future conversion of the Jєωιѕн nation to the Faith is a common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors, inferred directly from Holy Scripture. This mass conversion (which need not be absolutely total) will be a sign of the imminent approach of the General Judgment.

    Two things:

    (1) it makes it clear that the mass conversion is not defined dogma but that it is the common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church; and

    (2) it points out that the mass conversion "need" not be absolutely total.  This wording seems to suggest that it is possible for the mass conversion to be absolutely total or not absolutely total and leaves that point open.

    This was a shorter read, but I will take a look at the source Mark posted to see how this is handled.

    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #148 on: December 06, 2024, 07:23:41 AM »
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  • It is interesting that the St Benedict Center's article linked above starts out by saying this:

    Though it is not a defined dogma, the future conversion of the Jєωιѕн nation to the Faith is a common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors, inferred directly from Holy Scripture. This mass conversion (which need not be absolutely total) will be a sign of the imminent approach of the General Judgment.

    Two things:

    (1) it makes it clear that the mass conversion is not defined dogma but that it is the common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church; and

    (2) it points out that the mass conversion "need" not be absolutely total.  This wording seems to suggest that it is possible for the mass conversion to be absolutely total or not absolutely total and leaves that point open.

    This was a shorter read, but I will take a look at the source Mark posted to see how this is handled.
    Does this take into account who is an actual jew? There is a Jєωιѕн look, but this look creeps up on them as they get older, so it may be that a lifetime of avarice, paranoia, sense of entitlement and cunning causes certain facial features to develop, on just about anyone. Just as the eyes are very accurate window into the soul, there is no reason why other facial features shouldn't become more accentuated.

    Are there any jews left? 

     

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #149 on: December 06, 2024, 10:45:15 AM »
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  • Too, His Excellency Williamson used the verbiage, "…albeit with exceptions," so no "universal Salvation" for the Jєωs on The Last Day.

    Consistent with the pertinent Scripture:

    Quote
    "And Isaias crieth out concerning Israel: If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. (Romans 9:27)
     
    "Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace." (Romans 11:5)


    Yesterday I received a prompt and very cordial reply (as always) from His Excellency regarding "vine stock." He confirmed that we Gentiles are "grafted in" to the root, Jesus Christ, and into the lineage of Abraham, but not into the lineage of those named in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, hence we are not grafted into into the lineage of the damned Pharisees and their two-fold-damned proselytes  (тαℓмυdic Jєωs per Matthew 23:15).

    тαℓмυdic Jєωs are not our "Elder Brothers in the Faith," but instead are "the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, those who say they are Jєωs, and are not, but do lie" (Apocalypse 3:9)