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Author Topic: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo  (Read 68825 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
« Reply #165 on: December 07, 2024, 03:52:21 AM »
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  • When there are explicit "remnant" verses on point, these appeals are, as I said before, a species parallel to Bill Clinton's "What is the meaning of 'is'?"

    Regarding "all Israel"…

    The ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan and the Judaizers, then and now, have feigned and continue to feign a carnal connection to Abraham, but Jesus damned that claim:

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    “And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.” Matthew 3:9

    In Genesis 12:3 God was not speaking to or about Jєωιѕн people because there was no Jєωιѕн nation—Abram, not yet Abraham, was still a Gentile and, with His use of the singular, not plural, God was speaking to Abram alone about Abram’s spiritual lineage.

    And then again in Genesis 17:4-5:

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    And God said to him: I AM, and my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations    Neither shall thy name be called any more Abram: but thou shalt be called Abraham: because I have made thee a father of many nations.


    St. Paul affirms in Galatians 3:6-8 that God’s covenant with Abram, later Abraham, was made to him as a Gentile:

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    “As it is written: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him unto justice. Know ye therefore, that they who are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing, that God justifieth the Gentiles by faith, told unto Abraham before: In thee shall all nations be blessed.”


    St. Paul further elaborates on the justification of and covenant with Abraham before there were any Jєωs in Romans chapter 4.  In fact, even under Moses the “Israelites” were not called “Jєωs.” The word “Jєω” does not appear in the Bible until a thousand years or more after Moses.


    The Church is the new Israel:


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    But you [speaking to the Christians] are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Who in time past were not a people: but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained mercy; but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

    Is is the Faithful, who are the "all Israel" that will be saved.

    Those Jєωs who convert on The Last Day are re-grafted into Christ on The Last Day.

    They then become part of the Faithful "all Israel" that will be saved.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #166 on: December 07, 2024, 06:31:29 AM »
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  • I'm pretty sure Pax has said it's "infallible," but not a big issue. I know I've had a few rows with him on this topic.

    Perhaps it's just a phrasing issue,  but "pushing" a view is different from saying you can't hold another view. If someone has a strong conviction about a view on such a matter, I would hope he or she pushes it (as in trying to convince others of its truth as understood by the promoter)- that's different from condemning an opposing view.

    For me it has ramifications on other issues, Gospel issues, so I "push" my view.

    Take care,

    DR

    OK, he does seem to do so.  But we also have Mark79 saying it's heresy to believe that there will be a mass conversion without exceptions.

    However, I don't think either one is correct as there doesn't appear to be explicit Church teaching on whether there will be a mass conversion vs no mass conversion.  There doesn't seem to be any unanimity.  


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #167 on: December 07, 2024, 06:49:45 AM »
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  • So, I am going with what His Excellency wrote to me, "exceptions" precisely the same as I have been catechized throughout my Catholic education and adult life.
    I would be interested in hearing what he says on this topic in more detail given I tend to give credence to what our Traditional Catholic clergy teaches on Faith and Morals (although I still think this topic is not settled Church teaching). 

    It would be interesting to see how he comes to his conclusion.  Because even though he does mention "exceptions" the whole phrase he used was "the remaining Jews will convert collectively, i.e. as a whole, albeit with exceptions."  Yes, that doesn't mean 100% conversion, but it also gives me the impression that he's not talking about a large number of exceptions.  If anything, he seems to be suggesting something very close to a mass conversion.

    Since you seem to have contact with him, perhaps you could ask him to speak more to this part of his prior EC too (and post it with his permission)?  Maybe he could also speak to whether this is settled Church teaching.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #168 on: December 07, 2024, 09:56:07 AM »
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  • I would be interested in hearing what he says on this topic in more detail given I tend to give credence to what our Traditional Catholic clergy teaches on Faith and Morals (although I still think this topic is not settled Church teaching). 

    It would be interesting to see how he comes to his conclusion.  Because even though he does mention "exceptions" the whole phrase he used was "the remaining Jєωs will convert collectively, i.e. as a whole, albeit with exceptions."  Yes, that doesn't mean 100% conversion, but it also gives me the impression that he's not talking about a large number of exceptions.  If anything, he seems to be suggesting something very close to a mass conversion.

    Since you seem to have contact with him, perhaps you could ask him to speak more to this part of his prior EC too (and post it with his permission)?  Maybe he could also speak to whether this is settled Church teaching.

    Since there were personal identifiers in His Excellency's email, I chose not to quote the entire email verbatim and I did not want to "swiss cheese" the email with ellipses (…). Even though my website is shoahed, I am working to revive it and so still believe preserving anonymity (even after my death) is important for the safety of my family. The vengeance of Satan and his ѕуηαgσgυє is unmatched.

    That said, as long as the exceptions are acknowledged, I have no problem with the unpredictable number of converts now, later, or on The Last Day. Whether 1 conversion or 14 million conversions, I care not. As I have said, I welcome every sincere conversion. Equally true, I oppose every marrano who brings Jєωιѕн conceits, deceits, and heresies (e.g., David Moss's "Hebrew-Catholics" exceptionalism; Schoeman's racialism [see the files attached previously and also below in this post.) and Judaizers (e.g., MarkM/Nishant and josh987654321) who all do violence to our Faith.

    Understood?

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #169 on: December 07, 2024, 01:39:15 PM »
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  • Sorry, I addressed the content in an attempted follow-up post, but when it "timed out" I lost all the work. 
    I hear your pain. I hate when that happens.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #170 on: December 07, 2024, 03:20:54 PM »
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  • I hear your pain. I hate when that happens.
    Usually I can just click "back" and recover what was composed, but sometimes I just get a blank. Aiiieee!   Lately I have been trying to remember to copy the content before clicking "post," but it is not yet an ingrained habit.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #171 on: December 07, 2024, 03:26:46 PM »
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  • … infallible, or close to it.…

    So laughable!    "pregnant, or close to it."


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #172 on: December 07, 2024, 09:14:28 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  When speaking of the Church Fathers, there’s unanimous (ie infallible) and also “nearly unanimous”.  And then simply “common opinion”.  These are common distinctions; not something I made up. 

    But you just like to argue. 


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #173 on: December 07, 2024, 11:05:26 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  When speaking of the Church Fathers, there’s unanimous (ie infallible) and also “nearly unanimous”.  And then simply “common opinion”.  These are common distinctions; not something I made up. 

    But you just like to argue.
    Well… then let your posts reflect more of the "nearly" and "almost" and less of the "infallible."

    It lucky for CathInfo readers that you don't like to argue. :laugh1:

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #174 on: December 08, 2024, 04:03:53 PM »
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  • Usually I can just click "back" and recover what was composed, but sometimes I just get a blank. Aiiieee!  Lately I have been trying to remember to copy the content before clicking "post," but it is not yet an ingrained habit.
    Yes, and another option would be to compose on a clipboard or Word or even an email.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #175 on: December 08, 2024, 04:08:55 PM »
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  • Yes, and another option would be to compose on a clipboard or Word or even an email.
    The CathInfo software often butchers such pastes, inserting html codes with a nearly unreadable result.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #176 on: December 09, 2024, 08:17:24 AM »
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  • Quote
    Well… then let your posts reflect more of the "nearly" and "almost" and less of the "infallible."
    How about you don't go OCD when people use a word you don't like, or isn't 100% precise?  :jester:  Relax man, this isn't a courtroom.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #177 on: December 09, 2024, 05:09:02 PM »
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  • The CathInfo software often butchers such pastes, inserting html codes with a nearly unreadable result.
    Thanks, I didn't know why that happened.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #178 on: December 10, 2024, 04:37:16 AM »
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  • The CathInfo software often butchers such pastes, inserting html codes with a nearly unreadable result.
    Whenever copying from a Word docuмent and also some websites with linked articles in the text (like New Advent does), remember to click on the upper left icon before pasting. Then you can unclick it after pasting if you want to see how it pasted. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #179 on: December 10, 2024, 04:42:24 AM »
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  • Whenever copying from a Word docuмent and also some websites with linked articles in the text (like New Advent does), remember to click on the upper left icon before pasting. Then you can unclick it after pasting if you want to see how it pasted.

    Thanks for the tip. I'll try it.