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Author Topic: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo  (Read 70428 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2024, 10:17:31 AM »
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  • The day the antichrist is killed is not the last day of the world.  After antichrist, there is a period of peace for the Church, where people will convert.  Some saints say this period may be decades long.  This is when the "Jєω conversion" prophecy will be fulfilled.  This is when Christ will truly be King over all the world. 

    As I understand Catholic eschatology, you have misplaced the reign of peace in the chronology.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #121 on: December 04, 2024, 10:39:44 AM »
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  • There's the age of peace, Our Lady's triumph, in the coming age.  Then antichrist rises.  Then antichrist is defeated.  Then the final age of peace, where Christ is finally King and the Jєωs convert.  Then the end of the world.

    This final age of peace is often referred to (incorrectly/heretically) as "millenialsim" by Protestants, who think that Christ will reign for 1,000 years after antichrist.  The Church has said that this number of years is symbolic and not a literal 1,000 years.  But the idea of an age of peace, post-antichrist, is a fact.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #122 on: December 04, 2024, 10:40:57 AM »
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  • Good Heavens. Please be precise.

    Are you saying that in The End every single remaining Jєω is the "remnant" that will be saved?

    I am reasonably knowledgeable about Jєωs and about The End. I have never seen anyone (except the heretic josh987654321), Magisterial or otherwise, claim that every single Jєω alive on The Last Day will convert. Everything Magisterial that I have read teaches that from Christ's Ministry until The Last Day a remnant will be saved—here and there, as it were, NOT here and there until The Last Day and then on the Last Day every single one will convert. I have never seen such a bizarre and qualified teaching from the Magisterium. If you have it, let's see it. Not speculation, but Magisterium!

    If you have Magisterium saying that every single Jєω alive on The Last Day will convert, I would submit to authentic Magisterium and, if I have been wrong, I will abjure my error.

    I'll add this. There is virtual unanimity among the Fathers that The Anti-Christ will be a Jєω and that he will be destroyed, not converted, on The Last Day.  That would certainly be at least one Jєω of the remnant left alive on The Last Day who did not convert, but damned instead. To me, that one exception alone makes the "every single one on The Last Day"  claim to be an absurd, untenable, and heretical claim.
    Id have to research further but Bishop Williamson says as much here:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/eleison-comments-romans-xi/msg946510/#msg946510

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #123 on: December 04, 2024, 10:52:07 AM »
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  • Of course, a solid verse.

    I do not think you can make the "they knew better and still went willingly" leap in every case.

    Many had Faith in their prelates and had also been processed by the alchemy of Jєωιѕн relativism for their entire lives. Just as cancer infiltrates and weakens the body, Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism weakened the spiritual "immune system" of many. So, being taught by their trusted and traitorous prelates, many fell. They had not been taught to "know better" so were easily seduced. Many whose spiritual "immune systems" were not full "immune-compromised" fell because they were browbeaten into submission or "canceled."

    Then, of course, there are the heresiarchs who you and I would agree are the willful wolves of whom the verse speaks.
    I believe that verse places the responsibility on each of us regardless and in spite of everything else, the only variable is the degree of culpability, which may (or may not) be less for some than it is for others, the question below spells it out in short order......

    Who is guilty? Is it the false prophet or is it those who listen?

    If it is only the false prophet who is guilty, why is there any need to “beware?"
    If God is not going to blame those who listen, those who are taken in by the falsehoods of the Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism, then why did He tell us to beware?

    He told us to beware precisely so that we would not be taken in by the falsehoods of the Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism.




    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #124 on: December 04, 2024, 10:54:34 AM »
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  • All you say in the quoted post is true.

    However, to put a fine point on it, in my disputes with you, you seem to display an above average amount of subjectivism. Perhaps that subjectivism is merely female, perhaps it is residual kosher baggage.

    Just as I need to be on guard for the pernicious elements of the music of my youth (my baggage), perhaps you need to be on guard for Jєωιѕн subjectivism (perhaps your baggage).

    I do not mean this as a personal attack, but only exploring rum's contention that we are all Judaized. Maybe because I am abrasive I am equipped to understand the contentions of someone who, like me, is abrasive :cowboy:
    Although i dont know the reason (perhaps both things), I admit that I can be subjective in matters not related to the Faith.  However,  I don't recall arguments about those sorts of things with you.  The only one I can think of is the election and my position was supported by Catholic theologians and traditional clergy who are educated in the Catholic Faith. I wouldn't call that "subjective". 

    I appreciate that you weren't personally attacking me but I did notice that you didn't mention whether you believe I am a sincere convert.  😉 Having said that, you have never attacked me about nor questioned my conversion.  I have always appreciated that.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #125 on: December 04, 2024, 11:00:11 AM »
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  • Quote
    I do not think you can make the "they knew better and still went willingly" leap in every case.

    Many had Faith in their prelates and had also been processed by the alchemy of Jєωιѕн relativism for their entire lives. Just as cancer infiltrates and weakens the body, Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism weakened the spiritual "immune system" of many. So, being taught by their trusted and traitorous prelates, many fell. They had not been taught to "know better" so were easily seduced. Many whose spiritual "immune systems" were not full "immune-compromised" fell because they were browbeaten into submission or "canceled."
    God does not tempt us beyond our strength.  This is infallible.  Those who chose to "go along" had the grace to resist.  They did not.  It's their own fault - not Gods, or anyone else's.  At the last judgement, no one will be able to blame the devil for sin.  So you certainly won't be able to blame the devil's minions.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #126 on: December 04, 2024, 11:37:37 AM »
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  • You need not do that, because rum's contention is that everyone is Judaized, even himself, even me.

    I have no objection at all to anyone claiming that I am subconsciously judaized.  I agree that it is practically inescapable in our society and that we should all examine ourselves for its effect in our lives,  For rum to claim that 2Vermont and I are still Jєωιѕн and lying about being Catholic goes considerably beond that.  He is caling us liars.  He is saying that we are going to hell.  He is not claiming anything like that about you or anyone else.

    Anyway, as for you personally, it is my opinion (recognizing that only God's opinion matters!) that you are a sincere convert. When we first "met" on CathInfo I think you displayed some of the baggage of Jєωιѕн "Chosen" conceits and attachments.  As I have privately said to you, I believe you have successfully shed that Jєωιѕн baggage. That said, you and I must be on guard lest our baggage returns with a fatal vengeance. Te Deum laudamus! God is good!
     Thanks.  I came to trad forums with a triple dose of it (at least): from my familly, from attending university, and from liberal Novus Ordo formation.  It is an ongoing struggle to overcome it. 

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #127 on: December 04, 2024, 11:38:44 AM »
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  • Concerning the Jєωιѕн conversion at the end, assuming there are 10 million Jews in the world, let us say 100,000 convert.  One hundred thousand is a large number.  There are not even that number of traditional Catholics in America.  But this is 1/10th of one percent of ten million.  God can certainly do all things, but it is difficult for me to believe that there will be a mass conversion of this people. 
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #128 on: December 04, 2024, 02:02:18 PM »
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  • Thank you all for this very informative civil discourse.  I think I understand why being aware is important and why Mark 79 is zealous about what he knows.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #129 on: December 04, 2024, 04:08:38 PM »
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  • There's the age of peace, Our Lady's triumph, in the coming age.  Then antichrist rises.  Then antichrist is defeated.  Then the final age of peace, where Christ is finally King and the Jєωs convert.  Then the end of the world.

    This final age of peace is often referred to (incorrectly/heretically) as "millenialsim" by Protestants, who think that Christ will reign for 1,000 years after antichrist.  The Church has said that this number of years is symbolic and not a literal 1,000 years.  But the idea of an age of peace, post-antichrist, is a fact.
    Correct according to Father Sylvester Berry in The Apocalypse of Saint John.

    .



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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #130 on: December 04, 2024, 07:06:48 PM »
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  • Id have to research further but Bishop Williamson says as much here:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/eleison-comments-romans-xi/msg946510/#msg946510

    Here are the key paragraphs in that link to Bp. Williamson's commentary:

    Quote
    Secondly, the infidelity of Jєωs is highly useful, because the Gentiles’ conversion is designed to provoke them to jealousy, and if their rejection of Christ opened the way for Gentiles to be saved in God’s Church, then their reversion to Christ at world’s end will be the resurrection of the Gentiles. Moreover, the basic Jєωιѕн vine-stock (e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) is still holy, even if many Jєωs have broken off it, and so let Gentile Christians, who are mere grafts onto that vine-stock, remember that they too can break off it, even if they can be re-grafted onto it. In any case, all Gentiles depend, as Christians, on that vine-stock for their Christianity (11–24).

    I think this needs careful clarification, especially since there is no mention of "vine stock" in Romans 11:

    Quote
    For if the first fruit be holy, so is the lump also: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.  17 And if some of the branches be broken, and thou, being a wild olive, art ingrafted in them, and art made partaker of the root, and of the fatness of the olive tree,  18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.  19 Thou wilt say then: The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in

    Root (Christ), branches (Jєωs), and grafting are mentioned, but not even once does "vine stock" appear.

    "Vine stock" is a technical term that includes the rootstock and the scion (the shoot or branch).***

    ***"The vine stock consists of the scion (with a bud from the vine variety) and the rootstock…"
    https://www.winegrowers.info/planting/vine-planting/home.htm

    Is His Excellency saying we are grafted into Christ or into the Jєωs???

    I will ask His Excellency to clarify.

    His Excellency continued:

    Quote
    And thirdly, the infidelity of the Jєωs to the Gospel of Christ and to the New Testament is only temporary, because at world’s end, when the Gospel has been preached to all the Gentiles, the remaining Jєωs will convert collectively, i.e. as a whole, albeit with exceptions.

    His acknowledgment of exceptions means "not every single Jєω" alive on The Last Day will convert to Christ.

    That is exactly what I have said on this matter.  Perhaps many will convert on The Last Day, but not all will convert. So Bp. Williamson exposes josh987654321's heresy that all will convert.
    Q.E.D.



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #131 on: December 04, 2024, 07:26:14 PM »
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  • I believe that verse places the responsibility on each of us regardless and in spite of everything else, the only variable is the degree of culpability, which may (or may not) be less for some than it is for others, the question below spells it out in short order......

    Who is guilty? Is it the false prophet or is it those who listen?

    If it is only the false prophet who is guilty, why is there any need to “beware?"
    If God is not going to blame those who listen, those who are taken in by the falsehoods of the Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism, then why did He tell us to beware?

    He told us to beware precisely so that we would not be taken in by the falsehoods of the Jєωιѕн subjectivism/relativism/gradualism.
    You are merely re-stating what I said.  Both the false teachers and the people who fell for "false obedience" have blame. The apportionment of the blame is God's job.

    Meanwhile, yes, we beware of the false teachers and sects of perdition and attend to our own faults as well.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #132 on: December 04, 2024, 07:28:58 PM »
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  • God does not tempt us beyond our strength.  This is infallible.  Those who chose to "go along" had the grace to resist.  They did not.  It's their own fault - not Gods, or anyone else's.  At the last judgement, no one will be able to blame the devil for sin.  So you certainly won't be able to blame the devil's minions.
    :facepalm: Far more wise and holy people than I have long discussed the role of "false obedience." Many were seduced and others were browbeaten.

    You are welcome to blather and even believe whatever nonsense you imagine.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #133 on: December 04, 2024, 07:31:32 PM »
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  • I have no objection at all to anyone claiming that I am subconsciously judaized.  I agree that it is practically inescapable in our society and that we should all examine ourselves for its effect in our lives,  For rum to claim that 2Vermont and I are still Jєωιѕн and lying about being Catholic goes considerably beond that.  He is caling us liars.  He is saying that we are going to hell.  He is not claiming anything like that about you or anyone else.
     Thanks.  I came to trad forums with a triple dose of it (at least): from my familly, from attending university, and from liberal Novus Ordo formation.  It is an ongoing struggle to overcome it.
    God bless you and He certainly welcomes you. I can do no less. You remain in my prayers. I need and hope for yours.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Wisest Thing Ever Said on CathInfo
    « Reply #134 on: December 04, 2024, 08:53:02 PM »
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  • His Excellency continued:

    His acknowledgment of exceptions means "not every single Jєω" alive on The Last Day will convert to Christ.

    That is exactly what I have said on this matter.  Perhaps many will convert on The Last Day, but not all will convert. So Bp. Williamson exposes josh987654321's heresy that all will convert.
    Q.E.D.
    Yes, this was the part to which I was referring. I missed that he mentioned exceptions when I first read it.  Thanks for pointing that out.