Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right  (Read 2039 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Belloc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6600
  • Reputation: +615/-5
  • Gender: Male
The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
« on: September 14, 2009, 03:08:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    Whole Earth, Summer, 2000 by Bill Kauffman

    Mixing up Categories and Stirring up Trouble with the Catholic Workers

    The title "Dorothy Day and the American Right" promises a merciful brevity, along the lines of "Commandments We Have Kept" by the Kennedy brothers. After all, the founder of the Catholic Worker movement and editor of its newspaper lived among the poor, refused to participate in air-raid drills, and preferred Cesar Chavez to Bebe Rebozo.

    But there is more to the "right" than a dollar bill stretching from the DuPonts to Ronald Reagan, just as the "left" is something greater than the bureau-building and bomb-dropping of Roosevelts and Kennedys. Maybe, just maybe, Dorothy Day had a home, if partially furnished and seldom occupied, on the American right.

    The Catholic reactionary John Lukacs, after attending the lavish twenty-fifth anniversary bash for National Review in December 1980, held in the Plaza Hotel, hellward of the Catholic Worker House on Mott Street, wrote:

    During the introduction of the celebrities a shower of applause greeted  Henry Kissinger. I was sufficiently irritated to ejaculate a fairly loud   Boo! ... A day or so before that evening Dorothy Day had died. She was the  founder and saintly heroine of the Catholic Worker movement. During that
     glamorous evening I thought: who was a truer conservative, Dorothy Day or  Henry Kissinger? Surely it was Dorothy Day, whose respect for what was old  and valid, whose dedication to the plain decencies and duties of human life  rested on the traditions of two millennia of Christianity, and who was a    radical only in the truthful sense of attempting to get to the roots of the human predicament. Despite its pro-Catholic tendency, and despite its  commendable custom of commemorating the passing of worthy people even when
    some of these did not belong to the conservatives, National Review paid  neither respect nor attention to the passing of Dorothy Day, while around  the same time it published a respectful R.I.P. column in honor of Oswald  Mosley, the onetime leader of the British Fascist Party."

    National Review, dreadnought of postwar American conservatism, occasionally aimed its scattershot at Day. Founder William F. Buckley, Jr. referred casually to "the grotesqueries that go into making up the Catholic Worker movement"; of Miss Day, he chided "the slovenly, reckless, intellectually chaotic, anti-Catholic doctrines of this goodhearted woman--who, did she have her way in shaping national policy, would test the promise of Christ Himself, that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against us."

    The grotesqueries he does not bother to itemize; nor does Buckley explain just what was "anti-Catholic" about a woman who told a friend, "The hierarchy permits a priest to say Mass in our chapel. They have given us the most precious thing of all--the Blessed Sacrament. If the Chancery ordered me to stop publishing The Catholic Worker tomorrow, I would."

    If Buckley and Kissinger were the sum of the American right, mine would be a very brief article indeed. But there is another American right--or is it a left, for praise be the ambidextrous--in which Miss Day fits quite nicely. Indeed, I think she is more at home with these people than she ever was with Manhattan socialists. They are the Agrarians, the Distributists, the heirs to the Jeffersonian tradition. The keener of them--particularly the Catholics--understood their kinship with Day. Allen Tate, the Southern man of letters and contributor to the 1930 Southern Agrarian manifesto, I'll Take My Stand, wrote his fellow Dixie poet Donald Davidson in 1936:
       I also enclose a copy of a remarkable monthly paper, The Catholic Worker.   The editor, Dorothy Day, has been here, and is greatly excited by our whole    program. Just three months ago she discovered I'll Take My Stand, and has
     been commenting on it editorially. She is ready to hammer away in behalf of    the new book. Listen to this: The Catholic Worker now has a paid   circulation of 100,000! [Tate neglects to say that the price is a penny a    copy] ... She offers her entire mailing list to Houghton-Mifflin; I've just    written to Linscott about it. Miss Day may come by Nashville with us if the  conference falls next weekend. She has been speaking all over the country  in Catholic schools and colleges. A very remarkable woman. Terrific energy,   much practical sense, and a fanatical devotion to the cause of the land!

    The program that so excited Miss Day was summarized in the statement of principles drawn up at the Nashville meeting of Southern Agrarians and Distributists. Mocked as reactionary for their unwillingness to accept bigness as an inevitable condition, the conferees declared (inter alia):

    --The condition of individual freedom and security is the wide distribution of active ownership of land and productive property.
    --Population should be decentralized as well as ownership.
    --Agriculture should be given its rightful recognition as the prime factor in a secure culture.

    Though Day was absent from Nashville, she was to speak the language of the Southern Agrarians, without the drawl, many times over the years. "To Christ--To the Land!" Day exclaimed in the January 1936 issue. "The Catholic Worker is opposed to the wage system but not for the same reason that the Communist is. We are opposed to it, because the more wage earners there are the less owners there are ... how will they become owners if they do not get back to the land Widespread ownership was the basic tenet of the Agrarians' Catholic cousins, the Distributists. The Catholic Worker published all the major Distributists of the age, among them Chesterton and Belloc, Vincent McNabb, Father Luigi Ligutti, and the Jesuit John C. Rawe (a Nebraska-born "Catholic version of William Jennings Bryan"). On numberless occasions Dorothy Day called herself a Distributist. Thus her gripe with the New Deal: "Security for the worker, not Dorothy Day kept to the little way, and that is why we honor her. She understood that if small is not always beautiful, at least it is always human.

    The Catholic Worker position on economics was expressed quite clearly:[W]e favor the establishment of a Distributist economy wherein those who    have a vocation to the land will work on the farms surrounding the village  and those who have other vocations will work in the village itself. In this
    way we will have a decentralized economy which will dispense with the State  as we know it today and will be federationist in character.... We believe  in worker ownership of the means of production and distribution as  distinguished from nationalization. This to be accomplished by decentralized cooperatives and the elimination of a distinct employer
    class.

    The American name for this is Jeffersonianism, and the failure of Distributism to attract much of a stateside following outside of those Mencken derided as "typewriter agrarians" owes in part to its Chesterbellocian tincture. "Gothic Catholicism" never could play in Peoria.

    Nor could it stand upon the Republican platform. Garry Wills recalls this exchange during his first visit with William F. Buckley, Jr.: "`Are you a conservative, then?' [Buckley asked]. I answered that I did not know. Are Distributists conservative? `Philip Burnham tells me they are not.' It was an exchange with the seeds of much later misunderstanding."
    Were the Distributists conservative? Was Day conservative? Depends. Herbert Agar, the Kentucky Agrarian and movement theorist, wrote in the American Review (April 1934), "For seventy years, a `conservative' has meant a supporter of Big Business, of the politics of plutocracy," yet "the root of a real conservative policy for the United States must be redistribution of property." Ownership--whether of land, a crossroads store, a machine shop--must be made "the normal thing."

    "Property is proper to man," insisted Dorothy Day, though she and the Distributists--and much of the old American right--meant by property something rather more substantial than paper shares in a Rockefellerian octopus. "Ownership and control are property," declared Allen Tate, making a distinction between a family farm--or family firm--and a joint-stock corporation, the artificial spawn of the state.

    Like Tate and the Southern Agrarians, Day was no collectivist, eager to herd the fellaheen onto manury unromantic Blithedales. "The Communists," she said, sought to build "a sense of the sacredness and holiness and the dignity of the machine and of work, in order to content the proletariat with their propertyless state." So why, she asked, "do we talk of fighting communism, which we are supposed to oppose because it does away with private property? We have done that very well ourselves in this country." The solution: "We must emphasize the holiness of work, and we must emphasize the sacramental quality of property too." ("An anti-religious agrarian is a contradiction in terms," according to Donald Davidson.)

    Day described the Catholic Worker program as being "for ownership by the workers of the means of production, the abolition of the assembly line, decentralized factories, the restoration of crafts and the ownership of property," and these were to be achieved by libertarian means, through the repeal of state-granted privileges and a flowering of old-fashioned American voluntarism.

    During the heyday of modern American liberalism, the 1930s, when Big Brother supposedly wore his friendliest phiz, Day and the Catholic Workers said No. They bore a certain resemblance to those old progressives (retroprogressives)--Senators Burton K. Wheeler, Gerald Nye, and Hiram Johnson--who turned against FDR for what they saw as the bureaucratic, militaristic, centralizing thrust of his New Deal. The antithetical tendencies of the Catholic Worker and the 1930s American left were juxtaposed in the November 1936 issue of the Catholic Worker. Under the heading "Catholic Worker Opposition to Projected Farm-Labor Party.," the box read:

    Farm-Labor Party stands for: Progress Industrialism Machine Caesarism (bureaucracy) Socialism Organizations.

    Catholic Worker stands for: Tradition Ruralism Handicrafts Personalism Communitarianism Organisms.

    And never the twain shall meet.

    An anarchistic distrust of the state, even in its putatively benevolent role as giver of alms, pervaded the Catholic Workers, as it did the 1930s right. But then as the late Karl Hess, one-time Barry Goldwater speechwriter turned Wobbly homesteader, wrote, the American right had been "individualistic, isolationist, decentralist--even anarchistic," until the Cold War reconciled conservatives to the leviathan state.

    The 1930s dissenters--the old-fashioned liberals now maligned as conservatives; the unreconstructed libertarians; the cornbelt radicals--proposed cooperatives and revitalized village economies as the alternative to government welfare. The Catholic Workers agreed. The holy fool Peter Maurin, Day's French peasant comrade, asserted that "he who is a pensioner of the state is a slave of the state." Day, in her memoir The Long Loneliness, complained:

    The state had entered to solve [unemployment] by dole and work relief, by  setting up so many bureaus that we were swamped with initials.... Labor was  aiding in the creation of the Welfare State, the Servile State, instead of aiming for the ownership of the means of production and acceptance of the
       responsibility that it entailed.

    "Bigness itself in organization precludes real liberty," wrote Henry Clay Evans, Jr. in the American Review, a Distributist journal. The home--the family--was the right size for most undertakings. And so the home must be made productive once more. In the April 1945 Catholic Worker, Janet Kalven of the Graiiville Agricultural School for Women in Loveland, Ohio called for "an education that will give young women a vision of the family as the vital cell of the social organism, and that will inspire them with the great ambitions of being queens in the home." By which she did not mean a sequacious helpmeet to the Man of the House, picking up his dirty underwear and serving him Budweisers during commercials, but rather a partner in the management of a "small, diversified family firm," who is skilled in everything "from bread-making to beekeeping." For "the homestead is on a human scale"--the only scale that can really measure a person's weight.

    The Agrarians and Distributists dreamed of a (voluntary, of course) dispersion of the population, and Day, despite her residence in what most decentralists regarded then and regard now as the locus of evil, agreed: "If the city is the occasion of sin, as Father Vincent McNabb points out, should not families, men and women, begin to aim at an exodus, a new migration, a going out from Egypt with its flesh pots?" asked Day in September 1946. This revulsion against urbanism seems odd in a woman whose base was Manhattan, symbol of congestion, of concentration, of cosmopolitanism rampant. Yet she wrote of the fumes from cars stinging her eyes as she walked to Mass, of the "prison-gray walls" and parking lots of broken glass. "We only know that it is not human to live in a city of ten million. It is not only not human, it is not possible." The Southern Agrarians would not demur.

    World War II destroyed agrarianism as an active force in American intellectnal life--just as it fortified the urban citadels of power and money. Foes of America's involvement in the war, heirs to the non-interventionist legacy of George Washington, were slandered--most notably Charles Lindbergh, whom the Catholic Worker defended against the smears of the White House.

    Despite Day's disavowal of the "isolationist" label, the Catholic Worker of 1939-1941 spoke the diction of the American antiwar movement, which, because it was anti-FDR, was deemed "right-wing." Sentences like "We should like to know in just what measure the British Foreign Office is dictating the foreign policy of the United States!" could have come straight from the pages of Colonel McCormick's Chicago Tribune. So could the objection to the "English and Communist Propaganda" of the New York papers, and the reverence toward the traditional "neutrality of the United States" and the keeping of "our country aloof from the European war."

    "The Catholic Worker does not adhere to an isolationist policy," editorialized the paper in February 1939, though in fact its position, and often its phraseology, was within the American isolationist grain. The editorial sought to distinguish the paper from the bogeymen "isolationists" by urging "that the doors of the United States be thrown open to all political and religious refugees"--a position also taken by many isolationists, for instance H.L. Mencken, who wanted our country to be a haven for the persecuted Jєωs of Europe.
    Day and the Workers dug in for a tooth-and-nail fight against conscription--"the most important issue of these times," as they saw it. Day replied to those who noted that Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to register with the census, that "it was not so that St. Joseph could be drafted into the Roman Army, and so that the Blessed Mother could put the Holy Child into a day nursery and go to work in an ammunition plant."

    Or as Peter Maurin put it:
      The child does not belong to the state; it belongs to the parents. The   child was given by God to the parents; he was not given by God to the  state.

    This was by now a quaintly reactionary notion. What were children, if not apprentice soldiers? Like their isolationist allies, the Catholic Workers suffered years of "decline, suspicion, and hatred" during the Good War. Circulation of the Catholic Worker plummeted from 190,000 in May 1938 to 50,500 in November 1944. By 1944, only nine of thirty-two Houses of Hospitality were operating.

    The Cold War transmogrified the American right: anticommunism became its warping doctrine, yet a remnant of cantankerous, libertarian, largely Midwestern isolationists held on, though the invigorating air of the 1930s, when left and right might talk, ally, even merge, was long gone. The fault lies on both sides.

    The unwillingness of the Catholic Worker's editors to explore avenues of cooperation with the Old Right led them, at times, to misrepresent the sole popular anti-militarist force of the late 1940s. In denouncing the North Atlantic Treaty, which created NATO, the Catholic Worker claimed that "the only serious opposition in the Senate is from a group of the old isolationist school, and their argument is that it costs too much." This is flatly untrue--the isolationist case was far more sophisticated and powerful, and it rested on the same hatred of war and aggression that underlay the Catholic Workers--but to have been honest and fair would have placed the Catholic Worker on Elm Street and Oak Street, whose denizens might have taught the boys in the Bowery a thing or two.

    Postwar Catholic isolationists would be condescended to as parochial morons by the Cold War liberal likes of James O'Gara, managing editor of Commonweal, who snickered at those mossbacks who refused to recognize that "American power is a fact" and that "modern science has devoured distance and made neighbors of us all." What good is personalism in a world of atomic bombs? What mattered the small? Father John C. Rawe's experimental school of rural knowledge, Omar Farm, near Omaha, was shattered when all but two of its students were drafted to fight in World War II. Liberal Catholics continued to support the conscription against which pacifists and right-wingers railed, although, as Patricia McNeal has written of the League of Nations debate, "the majority of American Catholics supported the popular movement towards isolationism and rejected any idea of collective security." But the League aside, we all know which side won. The state side. The liberals who do not know us but, as they so unctuously assure us, have our best interests at heart.

    "The greatest enemy of the church today is the state," Dorothy Day told a Catholic audience in 1975, sounding much like the libertarian right that was her natural, if too little visited, kin.

    The powerful libertarian strain in the Catholic Worker was simply not present in other postwar magazines of the "left," excepting Politics, edited by Day admirer Dwight Macdonald. American liberals had made peace with--had made sacrifices to--Moloch on the Potomac. As Catholic Worker editor Robert Ludlow argued in 1951:we are headed in this country towards a totalitarianism every bit as
       dangerous towards freedom as the other more forthright forms. We have our secret police, our thought control agencies, our overpowering bureaucracy.... The American State, like every other State, is governed by those who have a compulsion to power, to centralization, to the  preservation of their gains. And it is the liberals--The New Leader, New
    Republic, Commonweal variety--who have delivered the opiate necessary for  the acceptance of this tyranny among "progressive" people. It is the  fallacy of attempting social reform through the State, which builds up the
    power of the State to where it controls all avenues of life.


    To which the New Republic-style liberals replied: welcome to the real world.

    The inevitable Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., in The Vital Center (1949), his manifesto of Cold War liberalism, wrote, "One can dally with the distributist dream of decentralization," but "you cannot flee from science and technology into a quietist dreamworld. The state and the factory are inexorable: bad men will run them if good abdicate the job."

    Alas, most on the "right" crawled into the devitalizing center. A dispersion of property, a restoration of ownership, the reclaiming of the land, a foreign policy of peace and noninterference: these were the dreams of losers, of fleers from reality, of shirkers of responsibility, of--most damningly--amateurs. Non-experts. In 1966, in the just-as-inevitable National Review, Anthony T. Bouscaren mocked Day and other "Catholic Peaceniks" because, "sinfully, their analysis of the situation [in Vietnam] goes directly counter to that of the distinguished list of academicians ... who support US defense of South Vietnam." Grounds for excommunication, surely.
    In all this worry about the other side of the world, few partisans bothered to notice the dirt under their feet. Distributism was dead. Or was it? For in 1956, long after the Agrarian dream had been purged from the American right, supplanted by the Cold War nightmare, Dorothy Day insisted that "Distributism is not dead." It cannot "be buried, because Distributism is a system conformable to the needs of man and his nature."

    Conforming to their decentralist principles--and presaging a later strategy of "right-wing" tax resisters--the Workers refused payment of federal taxes, though, as Day wrote, we "file with our state capital, pay a small fee, and give an account of monies received and how they were spent. We always comply with this state regulation because it is local-regional," and "because we are decentralists (in addition to being pacifists)." This resistance, she explained, was
    ... much in line with common sense and with the original American ideal,   that governments should never do what small bodies can accomplish: unions,   credit unions, cooperatives, St. Vincent de Paul Societies. Peter Maurin's anarchism was on one level based on this principle of subsidiarity, and on    a higher level on that scene at the Last Supper where Christ washed the    feet of His Apostles. He came to serve, to show the new Way, the way of the powerless. In the face of Empire, the Way of Love.

    How beautiful: in the face of Empire, the Way of Love
    It is only in the local, the personal, that one can see Christ. A mob, no matter how praiseworthy its cause, is still a mob, said Day, paraphrasing Eugene Debs, and she explained, in Thoreauvian language, her dedication to the little way:
    Why localism? ... [F]or some of us anything else is extravagant; it's  unreal; it's no: a life we want to live. There are plenty of others who    want that life, living in corridors of power, influence, money, making big    decisions that affect big numbers of people. We don't have to follow those    people, though; they have more would be servants--slaves, I sometimes think--than they know what to do with.

       We don't happen to believe that Washington, D.C., is the moral capital of America.... If you want to know the kind of politics we seek, you can go to your history books and read about the early years of this country. We would like to see more small communities organizing themselves, people talking with people, people caring for people ... we believe we are doing what our  Founding Fathers came here to do, to worship God in the communities they settled. They were farmers. They were crafts-people. They took care of each other. They prayed to God, and they thanked Him for showing them the way--to America! A lot of people ask me about the influence on our [Catholic] Worker movement, and they are right to mention the French and the Russian and English writers, the philosophers and novelists. But some of us are just plain Americans whose ancestors were working people and who belonged to small-town or rural communities or neighborhoods in cities. We saw more and more of that community spirit disappear, and we mourned its   passing, and here we are, trying to find it again.

    Dorothy Day found it. Not on the left, and not on the right, but in that place where Love resides. In the face of Empire, the Way of Love.

    Bill Kauffman is the author, most recently, of With Good Intentions? (Praeger, 1998). This article is derived from a speech given at the Dorothy Day Centenary Conference at Marquette University in October 1997. It previously appeared in the November 1998 issue of Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture, a publication of The Rockford Institute (928 N. Main Street, Rockford, IL 61103; www.chroniclesmagazine.org).

    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 02:47:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B127_AngelusDiagram.html

    http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/tradition/page43.phtml

    Have no respect for the catholic left.
    We cannot erradicate poverty. it will exist forever as Jesus said;"the poor will be always with you"
    If you want to extiguish poverty, you are making a liar of God.
       Do we sin when we offer gold and silver to The Lord? Do you think we must first save every poor person from poverty? But it will never happen till the judgement day. So the saying "Don't adorn the church while there is any poor person in the world" means "never adorn the church"
      Work is a result of original sin. It is not an end in itself. It is a mean for leading a good life which is too a mean for serving the Lord. To say that "it is through working that we fill our mission" or " it is work that makes us realize out human diginty" is utter nonesense.


    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 03:43:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Awesome post, Spouse.

    Although we must be careful of comparing the Catholic left and Catholic right with the American left and American right, as the latter are both ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic communism under various masks.  Sadly there are few Catholics, either in actuality ( sedevacantists ) or more or less by intent ( SSPX and/or Novus Ordo ), who have not become infected with various mistakes that are endemic to our "way of life."

    What you say about work is the truth.  Work is a way we keep out of trouble, keep from being idle, and do penance for the fall of Eve and for our own sins.  It is not honorable or glorious in itself.  All the work of creation was done by God; all the work of redemption was done by Christ; all the good work we poor wretches do for the Church in this life is enabled by the Holy Ghost.  "Without me you can do nothing," as Christ said.  God does not want us to be exhausted or to suffer except for a little bit, to show we love Him and understand that this world is not heaven.

    Yes, the poor will always be with us and it is a Protestant idea that somehow beautiful cathedrals are an offense to God because people are starving.  Those starving people used to POUR into the beautiful cathedrals for a place of refuge, first of all, where they were nourished with Our Lord's body, and given a foretaste of their glorious future home in heaven.  Christ made this quite clear when Mary Magdalene washed His feet with the expensive ointment, that just as He was to be honored lavishly, so is His Church, as it, along with Him who is its head,
    is the means of our salvation -- not money.  And certainly not work.

    I will refrain here from writing about how the Protestant work ethic has become an end in itself and how we are seeing its final implosion in the unemployment and jobs-obsession of the brainwashed hordes today.  The masses who have made work into the be-all and end-all of existence are now finding that they have put their dreams into a corrupt and godless system, have been played for suckers.  Yet they still cannot see that their houses are built on sand -- they still never question why they are on Earth.  They just work and work and work like perfect drones.  

    Work has become morality in America, no less than in communist nations -- probably because beneath the surface, we are one.  Looking at the hectic world of today, I always think of Psalm 127:1 --

    Quote
    "Unless the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it. Unless the Lord keep the city, he watcheth in vain that keepeth it."


    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 08:13:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Guess the meaning is missed here...a woman that was trying to alleviate poverty.she too knew the poor would always be with us, but was trying to make a better place......guess to the useless terms of "left" and "right" to describe people and the fruitlessness of the terms was over some peoples heads....

    Traditioninaction is a false paradigm, like Buckley.they do sloppy research and hide behind "traditionalism", but miss the point entirely....how sick I am of people quoting their site.....

    dasy was not left wing, nor right....that was the whole point of the article....not Prot work ethics, cathedrals,etc.......Trads fall down in charity and social action, like liberals fall down in theolgy.....clearly, Spouse just wants to pray and say to the poor "Tough! Day was stating the same things that others have said....that work is integral...try to read James ch 2.....

    No one is trying to "eradicate poverty", but does that mean we cannot or should not help others.....we are just to tell them "too bad you are poor, wait till judgment day"? So much for God speaking in James 2.

    What does adorning a church have to do with anything?...answer, nothing at all......

    sorry to post this article, figured it would be something to seriously consider, not vent ones spleen over.....guess I wil lretreat into my bedroom and tell teh poor "hey schmuck, will nto help you at all, working is bad and you will just have to wait till Judgment Day"....sorta like Rapturists say, dont worry, wil lbe raptured......

    Not sure what Mary Magdalen has to do with the article either, but guarantee the two women would relate well to each other, both working for Christ and his Church, both repentant sinners.....

    No one,esp Day and Distributist, think we can "eradicate poverty", but w can and are commanded to help others and make things better when we can, through Grace from Christ.....Catholic means more than sitting in a TLM, praying a Rosary and worrying about pants....it also means reaching out to the poor (Beatitudes anyone?)..bring Christ to them...

    Again, sorry, guess this was over too many peoples heads to get the plain concepts....Guess I will just wait to Judgment Day and not make a Christ a liar by helping others as He commanded.....I might be accused of adorning something or another......Kaufman was trying to make a point that Day was neither left nor right, that is a big idea I guess lost on Catholics that have inherited the Prot either/or thinking.....She is not a right winger, so obviously ,she is left.....either right or left......

    Again, mea culpa trying to make peopel think past paradigms, in deed, trying to make people think at all.....

    Neither of you apparently read nor understood, as your comments do not address at all the points.......sorry to tax you.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 08:16:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Note too her "work" was to help people, she did NOT say it was salvific in itself.....note she prayed and attended Mass regularly, finding her calling amd strength in sacrements.....but Raoul I guess felt a need to vent on work..did not God say Work out your salvation with fear and trembling? is not work rewarded throughout scripture?????? Does not the Church pair work and faith together? it is a Prot idea to say sola fide...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Adesto

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 317
    • Reputation: +50/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 08:49:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Co-incidentally, I just watched a movie on DD yesterday and have been reading her book "On Pilgrimage". I think we have to establish why many people see her as a good role model before criticising her. If you start with the principles of the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and the story of the Good Samaritan etc, and take from them the lesson that we ought to help those less fortunate whenever we can and see Christ in them, then DD gives us a marvellous example of love of neighbour in action, primarily with her soup kitchens and hostels for the homeless. But, do not read DD to find guidelines for political action, or for liturgy. She is misguided and confused on both, as any modern (relatively modern) Catholic in the NO may be. When many clergy are teaching the wrong stuff, is it any surprise to find the faithful are absorbing it? But her love for Christ's poor, her desire to dedicate her life to Christ through helping His suffering creatures is spot-on, and her charity is examplary.

    Bottom line: don't read DD in order to learn about the correct political attitude to take or to be edified by her "trad" credentials. Read her in order to understand the great need to help the wretched and the suffering, and how one may do that in practical, immediate circuмstances (such as helping beggars and the homeless).


    Join the Rosary Apostolate of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour: www.virgoclemens.bravehost.com

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 08:59:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Good thoughts... I look to DD for an example of repentant sinner, one who truned their life around and tried to help others, giving of herself....BTW, most of her life, she attend TLM, only last 15 or so was NO, no?

    What movie did you see? there are a few that I would liek to check out on her.....too many AMericanist Baby boomers think she was some leftist, utopian commie (my dad included), that view shaped by Buckley and Neocons to come.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Adesto

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 317
    • Reputation: +50/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 09:00:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Before reading the TIA article Spouse posted, please read Fr. Doran's article on Peter Maurin. You'll need to register, which is free.

    To thaw our frozen charity

    Join the Rosary Apostolate of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour: www.virgoclemens.bravehost.com


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanks for link, will do....I never read TIA, they have agenda and sloppy research/straw men when it comes to certain things....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Adesto

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 317
    • Reputation: +50/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 09:12:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Belloc
    Good thoughts... I look to DD for an example of repentant sinner, one who truned their life around and tried to help others, giving of herself....BTW, most of her life, she attend TLM, only last 15 or so was NO, no?

    What movie did you see? there are a few that I would liek to check out on her.....too many AMericanist Baby boomers think she was some leftist, utopian commie (my dad included), that view shaped by Buckley and Neocons to come.....


    Yes, DD was definitely a great convert. She led quite an immoral life before her conversion, in a relationship with her daughter's father and before that she had had an illegal abortion (which she deeply regretted all her life). All that changed when she "took the plunge" and was baptized. The film is "Entertaining Angels", very moving film, produced by Pauline Books & Media. [I would advise anyone watching it to skip the movie from the suffragette march (a couple minutes into the film) until around 40 minutes in, where she is visiting the seaside church. There are a couple of mild suggestive scenes which, while not explicit, are nevertheless potentially occasions of sensual thoughts for some. You're not missing much if you skip that section, only that she lives as a radical journalist writing for a Communist paper, is abandoned by the father of her baby who persuades her to have an abortion, then moves to a beach house to recover where she meets her second boyfriend and then becomes interested in the Church.] The film really does give you a feel for the dirty, harsh and often unappreciated work she did with the poorest of the poor. Obviously it has to be watched with reservations, about the political ideology, as it is a modern Catholic film.

    Join the Rosary Apostolate of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour: www.virgoclemens.bravehost.com

    Offline Caraffa

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 989
    • Reputation: +558/-47
    • Gender: Male
    The Way of Love: Dorothy Day and the American Right
    « Reply #10 on: September 15, 2009, 04:09:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I agree with Belloc for the most part that TIA's criticism of distributism itself is not the best. However, I don't think they are wrong to criticize how distributism was applied. I believe we need conversions to the true faith first. However, despite my own distrubitist leanings, I open to criticism of it. Belloc, I'm interested to know how you would answer this:

    Quote
    It pains me somewhat to break ranks here, but I am not the biggest fan of distributism precisely because it tries to 'un-serf the serfs.' Too many men making their own decisions has always been fertile soil for republicanism. I like corporatism and I believe, obviously, in the stability and indissolubility of the family; however, I believe that most men in society ought to be beholden to a superior who has the material power to reinforce his decisions, that society needs more servants and less 'askers-of-questions.' Men need to be born with prejudices supplied by an establishment that is greater than the scope of their material aspirations. How much greater, you ask ? Enough, and no more.
    Otherwise we get the autonomous individual, the self-seeker, the 'alternative' man who 'does his own thing' and tries too hard to 'change his stars.' Magnanimity is a blessing, but personal ambition and self-regard is a curse upon the tranquility of an otherwise solid moral and social order. Too many men owning property and not being beholden to a lord or master of some kind creates this phenomenon, which always leads to friction and the heat of tumultuous events.

    'I own property, why does this man see it fit to dictate to me ? Just because he has a lofty title and his father's great great grandfather was given a picture on a shield from the Duke of whereabouts ? Nonsense -- I am a man, and a Catholic, and a property-owner, and I will stand up for my rights against this pretentious aristocrat !'

    I see too much philo-bourgeoisism in the distributist system to call myself a distributist. The last thing any society desiring survival needs is a teeming middle class with a mischievous sense of entitlement. I know how obnoxiously self-important these people are; being from the suburbs of a large metropolitan area, almost everybody I know is one of them.

    See my quotation above. Now I will alter the words a little bit, and tell me how the presented social dynamic is qualitatively different in the new quote.

    'I have my own house and family; why does this man see it fit to dictate to me ? Just because he has the lofty title of 'father' and had oil put on his head by some Bishop I have never met and who does not know my personal circuмstances and situation ? Nonsense -- I am a man, and an American, and a Christian, and I will not be told that I am some horrible person who cannot receive communion because some outdated Italian dictator with nice clothes and a fish-shaped hat doesn't like that I divorced my first wife ! I have universal human rights and am entitled to some respect !'


    God is not a respecter of persons; the Church is not a respecter of persons; the social order and the monarchy should not be a respecter of persons. Respecting persons a priori is ridiculous. One respects authority because it was invested by God through his ministers appointed by Divine Providence. One respects sacred persons, too, such as the dignity of the royal person and His Holiness and so forth, but only because of the dignity given to them by the authority the possess. Distributism, on the other hand, seems to place too much emphasis on decentralised power and on widespread property ownership. Now, I am strongly in favour of widespread property ownership by men of authority and by sacred feudal rights and oaths and relationships binding men hierarchically to certain duties.
    But too many men with power and social 'respect' qua 'property-owners' seems like it would create a culture of individuals with rights, rather than one of men with duties. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Catholicmonarchists/message/4441


    Further, is distributism compatible with an organic hierarchal society?
    Pray for me, always.