Author Topic: The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???  (Read 2616 times)

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Offline MrsZ

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The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
« on: November 20, 2010, 01:54:29 PM »
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  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8148899/Pope-approves-use-of-condoms-in-fight-against-Aids.html

    Is this a legitimate paper? Do you believe this is true?  It says that the pope gave an interview for a book and that it's being published by the Vatican.  The Comments section won't download, I think it's being inundated by people.  

    This is horrific if true!!

    Offline MyrnaM

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 02:05:04 PM »
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  • This is the article today on my Yahoo front page:

    VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI says in a new book that condoms can be justified for male prostitutes seeking to stop the spread of HIV, a stunning comment for a church criticized for its opposition to condoms and for a pontiff who has blamed them for making the AIDS crisis worse.

    The pope made the comments in a book-length interview with a German journalist, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," which is being released Tuesday. The Vatican newspaper ran excerpts on Saturday.

    Church teaching has long opposed condoms because they are a form of artificial contraception, although it has never released an explicit policy about condoms and HIV. The Vatican has been harshly criticized for its opposition.

    Benedict said that condoms are not a moral solution. But he said in some cases, such as for male prostitutes, they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

    Benedict called it "a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way of living sexuality."

    He used as an example male prostitutes, for whom contraception is not an issue, as opposed to married couples where one spouse is infected. The Vatican has come under pressure from even some church officials in Africa to condone condom use for monogamous married couples to protect the uninfected spouse from getting infected.

    Benedict drew the wrath of the United Nations, European governments and AIDS activisits when he told reporters en route to Africa in 2009 that the AIDS problem on the continent couldn't be resolved by distributing condoms.

    "On the contrary, it increases the problem," he said then.

    Journalist Peter Seewald, who interviewed Benedict over the course of six days this summer, raised the Africa condom comments and asked Benedict if it wasn't "madness" for the Vatican to forbid a high-risk population to use condoms.

    "There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility," Benedict said.

    But he stressed that it wasn't the way to deal with the evil of HIV, and elsewhere in the book reaffirmed church teaching on contraception and abortion, saying: "How many children are killed who might one day have been geniuses, who could have given humanity something new, who could have given us a new Mozart or some new technical discovery?"

    He reiterated the church's position that abstinence and marital fidelity is the only sure way to prevent HIV.

    Cardinal Elio Sgreccia, the Vatican's longtime top official on bioethics and sexuality, elaborated on the pontiff's comments, stressing that it was imperative to "make certain that this is the only way to save a life." Sgreccia told the Italian news agency ANSA that that is why the pope on the condom issue "dealt with it in the realm of ecceptionality."

    The condom question was one that "needed an answer for a long time," Sgreccia was quoted as saying. "If Benedict XVI raised the question of exceptions, this expection must be accepted ... and it must be verified that this is the only way to save life. This must be demonstrated," Sgreccia said.

    Christian Weisner, of the pro-reform group We Are Church in the pope's native Germany, said the pope's comments were "surprising, and if that's the case one can be happy about the pope's ability to learn."

    William Portier, a Catholic theologian at the University of Dayton, a Marianist school in Ohio, said he had not read the report in the Vatican newspaper, but he said it would be wrong to conclude that the comments mean the pope has made a fundamental, broad change in church teaching on artificial contraception.

    "He's not going to do that in an offhand remark to a journalist in an interview," Portier said.

    In other comments, Benedict said:

    • If a pope is no longer physically, psychologically or spiritually capable of doing his job, then he has the "right, and under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign."

    • On Islam, in Europe, he declined to endorse such moves as France's banning the burqa or Switzerland's citizen referendum to forbid topping mosques with minarets.

    "Christians are tolerant, and in that respect they also allow others to have their self-image," Benedict replied when asked if Christians should be "glad" about such initiatives. "As for the burqa, I can see no reason for a general ban."

    • He was surprised by the scale of clerical sex abuse in his native Germany and acknowledged that the Vatican could have better communicated its response. "One can always wonder whether the pope should not speak more often."

    • On Pope Pius XII, the wartime pontiff accused by some Jewish groups of staying publicly silent on the Holocaust: Some historians have asked the Vatican to put Pius' sainthood process on hold until the Holy See opens up its archives from his papacy. But Benedict said an internal "inspection" of those unpublished documents failed to support "negative" allegations against Pius.

    "It is perfectly clear that as soon as he protested publicly, the Germans would have ceased to respect" Vatican extraterritoriality of convents and monasteries who were sheltering Jews from the Nazi occupiers in Rome. "The thousands who had found a safe haven ... would have been surely deported," Benedict argued.

    In the book, Benedict also offers insights into his private life, saying he enjoys watching TV at home in the evenings with his secretaries and the four women who take care of his apartment, preferring the evening news and an Italian TV show from decades ago "Don Camillo and Peppone" about a parish priest and his bumbling assistant.

    He said he always wears his white cassock, never a sweater, and wears an old Junghans watch that was left to him by his sister when she died. When he prays, he said, he prays to the Lord as well as the saints and considers himself good friends with Sts. Augustine, Bonaventure and Thomas Aquinas.



    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 02:12:00 PM »
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  • I am utterly speechless.

    Mrs. Z, this should be moved to the Crisis Section.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #3 on: November 20, 2010, 02:14:14 PM »
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  • That's like stating it's okay for an assassin to use an illegal firearm if he uses it to make his mission safer to bystanders.

    It's insanity.  Maybe there are too many NO priests with venereal disease.

    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #4 on: November 20, 2010, 02:17:03 PM »
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  • I think I now know a little of how Our Lord felt when He wept over Jerusalem.   :cry:


    Offline Dawn

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 02:21:16 PM »
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  • I mean truly. How can anyone NOT BE a sedevacantist with this illegal occupant??

    What does this mean anyhow "enedict called it "a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way of living sexuality."

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 02:24:22 PM »
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  • This is where refusing to ever make judgements about intentions leads to disaster.  Why would the Pope say something like this?  What possible reason could their be?

    You know the sad thing is that many people will defend this to say that because sodomy isn't coitus it doesn't aggravate the sin or constitute an additional sin if one uses a condom.  But even if that argument was legitimate, why speak of it?  This is not something for the Pope to speak of unless it is an incremental approach to endorsing condom use?

    To say it's okay to use condoms for such a grievous sin is to say it's okay to take steps to make sins easier to accomplish - so it's hard to justify in any case.

    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 02:42:12 PM »
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  • This is the first step.  Remember:  the word is "gradual".   After everyone acclimates themselves to this, and EWTN/CA (who must be having emergency meetings even as I type to discuss how they are going to rationalize this one) spins it and twists it to their satisfaction, then the use of birth control will be established across the board.  

    If this report turns out to be accurate, prepare for an influx of new people in your chapels.  There is only so much people can take.  This may be the final nail in the coffin for many.



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 02:44:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    I mean truly. How can anyone NOT BE a sedevacantist with this illegal occupant??


    Doesn't matter if someone is a sede or not, as long as they are a Traditionalist then what difference does it really make? Of course, I agree that stuff like this is ridiculous. Don't we have better issues like modernism than the Pope talking about stuff like this?

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 02:50:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    This is the first step.  Remember:  the word is "gradual".   After everyone acclimates themselves to this, and EWTN/CA (who must be having emergency meetings even as I type to discuss how they are going to rationalize this one) spins it and twists it to their satisfaction, then the use of birth control will be established across the board.  

    If this report turns out to be accurate, prepare for an influx of new people in your chapels.  There is only so much people can take.  This may be the final nail in the coffin for many.



    They won't say birth control is okay, just that it's necessary for health reasons - like the other false religions/Christian denominations.  I heard as a boy of nuns in various places taking birth control pills for the pretext of avoiding pregnancy by rape.

    You know, we've been told on this very board of an SSPV priest in confession asking the penitent why birth control was not used during fornication.

    The cause of the rot is bad morality.  Worldly traditionalists will not preserve the Faith.

    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 02:56:00 PM »
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  • Quote
    Worldly traditionalists will not preserve the Faith.


    I wish I could tell you that I only know a few like that, but I know too many.

     You cannot serve two masters.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #11 on: November 20, 2010, 03:21:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote
    Worldly traditionalists will not preserve the Faith.


    I wish I could tell you that I only know a few like that, but I know too many.

     You cannot serve two masters.


    You know the effort by the Papacy (be it really the Papacy or not I do not know) to corral and placate the traditionalists is an attempt to neutralize their opposition to these developments.

    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #12 on: November 20, 2010, 03:26:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote
    Worldly traditionalists will not preserve the Faith.


    I wish I could tell you that I only know a few like that, but I know too many.

     You cannot serve two masters.


    You know the effort by the Papacy to corral and placate the traditionalists is an attempt to neutralize their opposition to these developments.


    Yes, I do know that.  
     
    If this recent development is true, anyone that stays in the novus ordo church deserves what they get.  Don't come crying to me upset at the abuses, lack of Catholic sermons, table girls, EMs, irreverent "liturgies", etc. etc.  

    Also, if this is true, where does this leave the "traditional orders" like the FSSP, Christ the King, Cody Carmelites?  Kind of puts them in  a bad space, doesn't it?

    Offline MyrnaM

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #13 on: November 20, 2010, 04:08:55 PM »
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  • I read from one of the prophesy books that "someday the nuns will say, look he is anti-christ" of their pope.  

    Maybe this is it!  I don't believe they thought he was Anti-christ (Capital letter A)but his actions are against Christ, and they finally agreed they were.  

    Offline Alexandria

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    The Pope is said to Approve Use of Condoms in AIDS cases ???
    « Reply #14 on: November 20, 2010, 04:11:11 PM »
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  • If this turns out to be accurate, Mount St. Michael's can prepare for more parishioners!

     

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