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Author Topic: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home  (Read 2369 times)

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Re: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2025, 12:16:56 PM »
...has to do with denouncing / condemning / rejecting the "Ordinary Form" (dead giveaway there using the term).

A dead giveaway to what?  That her story is insincere, and that she's actually working for a party as an attack dog?  What do you mean?

Offline Gray2023

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Re: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2025, 12:30:44 PM »
I am having a hard time making my thoughts clear.

The behavior that this woman went through is typical for NO traditionalists. Men and women.

They pick feelings over truth. They don't dig deeper.

Call it relativism or dishonesty or being judgemental.

The point is that you have to separate yourself from NO to find the Truth. And that is a very hard thing for most people to do.

Is there hope that maybe this particular woman would have a change of heart? As long as she is living there is still hope

I guess there is a very big difference between types who find truth based on writings of the True Church and those who go where the crowd goes (these are the people who can't stop following the pope because that is where the crowd is)


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2025, 12:33:11 PM »
But does she have a point when she mentions the lack of charity among some traditionalists. Maybe?

Anecdotal evidence:
20 years ago my family chose Mass attendance at the Fraternity of St. Peter (indult traditionalists) over the SSPX due to the prideful feeling of the SSPX.

:facepalm: ... "prideful feeling of the SSPX".  Please tell me you're joking.  What's a "prideful feeling"?

As mentioned before, this individual defined this "prideful feeling" as having the attitude of "the Tridentine Mass is better than the NOM and the NOM is bad".  So that's pride?  If you go to a Catholic Church and they say, for instance, that "the Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Christ, and if you don't become Catholic you can't be saved", to someone who rejects that dogma, they will label this "prideful".  Now CAN there be some arrogance, some pride, etc. also there?  Yes, most certainly.  But that can be colored significantly by whether you disagree with their theological position.  "You Catholics just think you're better than everyone else."  Answer:  "Why, yes, yes we are." ... but you have to be careful to add "but not due to my own merits".

Yes, there can be a greater tendency to pride among Traditional Catholics.  Why?  Because the posture of recognizing that Traditional Catholicism is objectively superior to the Conciliar religion, and that many elements of the Conciliar religion are bad, from the Mass, the heresies, the sacrileges, etc. ... when you're in that battle it's much easier for the devil to come in there and insinuate the subtle element of "I'm better than you are because I do these things ...", not unlike the Pharisaical attitude.  That doesn't make them wrong or illegitimate, etc.  In fact, Our Lord said of the Pharisees that they sit in the Chair of Moses and that people should do what they say ... just not do what they do.  In other words, they weren't wrong, and the various people who rejected that Chair of Moses were in fact wrong for doing so, but it's all about the attitude.  Some succuмb to pride and bitter zeal, but many do not and are quite humble about it, recognizing that were it not for the grace of God, there go I also, and I have done nothing to deserve God bringing me to Traditional Catholicism while not bringing those others.  But humility doesn't require saying, "Well, that Novus Ordo Mass, that's OK too, and it's not a bad thing." and "It's not bad to have altar girls and Communion in the Hand." or "I might personally disagree, but, well, that's just my opinion and yours is valid too."

This is the thinking that Bishop Williamson correctly denounced as "nitheness".  You don't have to be nice about condemning error.  Was Our Lord "nice" when He scourged the money-changers out of the temple, called them a den of vipers and painted sepulchres?  Was God being "nice" when He destroyed all mankind with a flood?

When you're in a battle, the very essence of the thing is to NOT be nice ... and we Traditional Catholics have been in a constant battle.  Sure, it can feel good and be a relief to some Trad to just go to FSSP Mass and say, "well, no more conflict ... I'll just lay down the sword and fit in, and get along with everyone." ... since constantly having to swim against the tide of the Modern world and of the Conciliar Church are exhausting and tiring, and sometimes it requires some additional exertion, which can be construed by others as pride.  But if that's wrong, then you're just surrendering the battle because you're tired of fighting.

Yes, there can be many bad tendencies among Traditional Catholics, but I'm not going to decide what's right and wrong by emoting over these things.  It's either right or wrong based on doctrine, principles, and theology.  As for these other bad tendencies, it's up to me to be vigilant about it in my own soul and to fight it and not succuмb to it.

We had all those people leaving the Church because of the various predator priests, etc.  Lots of people use "bad people" in the Church as an excuse to leave the Church.  But that's all based on emoting, and very often it's just an excuse to rationalize what you wanted to do for other reasons.  "If God tries to condemn me for leaving the Church, I'm going to say to Him ... how about those predator priests?"  To which God will respond, "That's not why you left.  You wanted to get divorced and remarried.  And the existence of sinners is actually part of the Church's doctrine, and you know full well that being Catholic doesn't guarantee sanctity.  You made this up as an excuse to justify yourself.  Depart from Me."

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2025, 12:41:42 PM »
A dead giveaway to what?  That her story is insincere, and that she's actually working for a party as an attack dog?  What do you mean?

... a dead giveaway that her definition of "pride" is invalid.  If that weren't her starting point, the woke framework of it being prideful to think you're right and that everyone else is wrong, etc. ... I'd perhaps keep listening to the rest of what she had to say.

But as soon as you define pride as, basically, not being a subjectivist ... anything that follows is invalidated.

"Oh, you think that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is wrong.  You're proud.  You think you're better than these other people?  You're bitter by saying that sodomy is a sin.  You should follow the attitude of Francis when he says 'Who am I to judge?'"

In other words, she bases her judgment of "pride" on the same standard that Jorge applies in "Who am I to judge?" ... where if you think that your principles are right and those of others are wrong, even if you based those on God's Revelation, then you're "judgmental" and "proud".

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Novus Ordo: The Day Christ Called Me Home
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2025, 12:43:54 PM »
The point is that you have to separate yourself from NO to find the Truth. And that is a very hard thing for most people to do.
Bingo! Well stated.

Quote
Is there hope that maybe this particular woman would have a change of heart? As long as she is living there is still hope

I guess there is a very big difference between types who find truth based on writings of the True Church and those who go where the crowd goes (these are the people who can't stop following the pope because that is where the crowd is)
It's always easier to follow the wolves (crowd). Because it is easier, the initial inclination for most people is to follow the wolves once they convince themselves to ignore the truth and that the wolves are ok - lest in knowing the truth they might be obligated to do all that the truth requires, including probably being against the wolves they would really like to follow.