I'm new and learning the "culture and personality" of the forum, so I will naively ask why this post by padrepio received a thumbs down?

Only the person who did it knows that.

Anyone can sign up here and rate things.  

Ask every man at your chapel (and any person in the world that you respect)what he does for a living, and how he got into it. You'll be surprised at how it happened. It will open up your mind to new horizons. Men love to be asked that question, and to talk about themselves.

Watch the movie the Bird Man of Alcatraz with Burt Lancaster. The guy was a lifer,  A looser in every respect, then he found a baby bird during his the solitary confinement courtyard minutes. He went on to become the foremost world authority on birds. Had he not found that bird, he would have continued to be a less than nothing.

That's good advice, unfortunately most of these older gentleman have 20-40 years of experience on me. Most young 20-something year old guys do not have that. They come from a different era. It's much more difficult to get into a trade now unless you go to a trade school. Most trade schools don't even teach standard carpentry or gun-smithing or machinist positions. It's all service level trades now at these schools catered towards business marketing or Dentist office secretary, at least in Georgia. There are some trade schools that teach welding though, which is good.

I'd much rather be a priest or monk though, I feel that's my vocation. Only problem is my debt from studying Philosophy back when I was still attending the Novus Ordo thinking I was going to go into a Diocese. That's definitely no longer the case, I would only join a traditional order.

A first job would be priority number one! :D

But yes, you're right, seems that paying off the debt is critical in order to do so.

Thanks Cheryl, I didn't even notice the thumbs down until someone mentioned it.  That is an interesting point, about Willa Cather, if someone started another thread I would like to know where the information comes from that she is lesbian.

In this post, I was only pointing out how other groups, such as family, culture, or such, used their own ties within their groups to help their members.  I could have used other examples, besides Cather or masons, I wasn't promoting them.

Thanks again, and I'm giving you a thumbs up anyway.  Yes, I like the idea of your topic.

One of the most fascinating topics, in my opinion, is the subject of "Tradition: the next generation"

How many of today's pillars of the Traditional movement came over from the Novus Ordo at some point?  How many multi-generational Trad families are there?

We talked about "success" vs "Catholic living" last week. On a related note, have you even wondered how some of today's Trads are going to be replaced?

Can they be replaced? Not really. Let me explain:

Many pillars of Tradition -- especially financially -- have such means because they chose their careers (and sometimes their WIVES' careers!) before they were traditional Catholic. And it's easy to get in a good situation financially when you only have 2 or 3 children.

How many older Catholics -- Baby Boomers for example -- do you know with large families (defined as "more than 4 children")? I'm not saying they're bad or doomed or anything like that, but it's a fact that many of today's older trad Catholics have 2-3 children. During their childbearing years, they used NFP, birth control, whatever.

It's easy to amass wealth when you don't have to use both hands -- and one foot -- to count your children.

And Baby Boomers lived in a different world, where it wasn't quite as bad to send your children to Public School. I know that my wife and I would have TONS more time to make (and save) money if our 2 oldest were gone all day to school. We'd also save on homeschooling book expenses.

How can today's 2nd or 3rd generation trads compete with this? Unless they inherit a chunk of wealth, there's NO WAY they will be in a similar position financially in 40 years.

It's not that having children is expensive, but there is SOME added expense with each additional child, and there is certainly a TIME and LOST OPPORTUNITY cost associated with taking care of a big family. I speak from experience on this.

If a 2nd generation Trad went for one of the careers these Baby Boomers have today, he'd be compromising his Faith -- which is why so few of them are willing to do it. I can't really blame them. But it is going to change the face of the Trad movement in a couple decades.

I could give you dozens of examples; this is something I'm quite confident about.

I have seen a fair amount of this in the UK a Trad chapels, less so in the SPPX, where the older members of the parish now in their 60s are reverts to the faith and have one or two children only because they lapsed in the 1970s and used contraceptives up to the turn of the millennium then returned to mass when their requirements had changed.

As for compromising your faith....that's a difficult one.  I know Trads who work as plumbers or electricians and have to spend their days on building sites listening to foul jokes and stories about who each builder is sleeping with or what they would like to do to the latest young Hollywood actress.  Construction sites can be pretty sick places with a pretty low class of person working there.

Doctors and nurses?  Let's not even go there.  Hospitals are notorious for affairs going on between the staff.

The conversations that go on in the average modern office are pretty foul, especially when women are dominating the conversation.  I was at Thomson Reuters office in Canary Wharf earlier this year and one woman in her forties was talking to a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ colleague in the most disgusting way imaginable constantly joking about anal sex, butt plugs and worse.  This is just modern people and they are in every office and every construction site.

That was a particular bad example however, most offices are not that bad.

By contrast when you work with senior management they are generally pretty focused on their own image and don't involve themselves in base conversations about sɛҳuąƖ practices and proclivities.  The conversations and casual chat are never as base, not due to morality, but more due to professional courtesy and self consciousness of the image they project.

What one needs to do is look at your own sensibilities and excessive weaknesses and embark on a career where if you are naturally tempted to materialism you don't work on a trading floor of a bank.  But if you're not materialistic and see money as a means to an end then working in a bank is a smart move because they are a fairly conservative and well educated lot of people and there is a lot of money sloshing around.  You get paid well, just because people around you are greedy.

An ideal career path for a Trad man in my opinion provided they have the right sensibility for it is to work in a profession such as investment management or insurance or banking, telecommunications, and then become a self employed consultant once they hit their 30s and have a few years experience and 100s of contacts under their belt.  You have low start up costs, you can lower your taxes in some jurisdictions, the UK is particularly good for this.

The Internet gives certain professionals the ability to work at home and do limited business travel which is a huge bonus for a husband and father of a large family. He can help his wife in all manner of ways if he is home or nearby.

You have to be able to sell yourself and find work, but those skills can be learned if you wish to learn them.  It is a myth that professional selling takes a certain type of very gregarious person as an professional salesperson knows. People by from people and all you have to be is credible, knowledgable, trustworthy and memorable/likeable.

Alternatively start your own business but the options here are limited in that unlike other men you are not going to remortgage your family home and risk your family's roof, to finance the start up costs of a business, meaning you can really only consider a venture with low start up costs, something you can finance with savings, or angel capital.

The apostles went to Pagan Rome and they would have had to mix and share streets and latrines, bath houses and public buildings with prostitutes, pimps, slave owners and all times of pagan scuм.  If the apostles did not find the pagan scuм of the streets of Rome jeopardised their souls sufficiently to make them want to high tail it back to some country hamlet then I would imagine most Trads could steel themselves to work in most industries most of the time and would only have to avoid working for a small minority of businesses

The alternative as you say is Trads on welfare and food stamps or working jobs that pay low incomes and using abstinence to cap their family after 5 years of marriage and 3 children and separate beds once they hit their early mid 30s.

 I have seen this happening in the US and UK and as a general rule I don't think it is healthy to abstain for over a decade.

Well it is what the topic is about Tele.  You have posted about Mexican virgins and unrequited love when the topic is pretty much anything but that.

Careers are for men to earn money to support their families.

But I guess that isn't something you'd know much about, is it?  Since you don't appear to work, are unmarried and find salted crackers expensive.

Frankly for the last 20 years [bI've had serious reservations about what has been taken from the Gospels and leveraged and what has been ignored and left out. Christianity seems to have been heavily influenced by the emperor Constatine[/b] who as far as I understand it wasn't even a converted Christian until his deathbed.

You're essentially someone who admits he has "serious reservations" about Catholicism (supposedly pertaining to the teachings regarding the virtues of poverty) but you never stop gloating about money.  Gloating about money to insult other Catholic men.