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Author Topic: The First Church of Cannabis  (Read 2011 times)

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Offline Carissima

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The First Church of Cannabis
« on: July 10, 2018, 12:05:29 PM »
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    • I know several Traditional Catholics that smoke marijuana regularly and believe it to be perfectly acceptable. Women and men. Some of them even have small children. 

    Would it enlighten them to know that this place exists?

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/judge-rules-against-church-seeking-to-offer-marijuana-as-holy-sacrament_us_5b437937e4b07b827cc30212
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    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #1 on: July 10, 2018, 12:10:44 PM »
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    • Strange that traditional Catholics would regularly practice mortal sin and be fine with it. But I guess nothing is sacred anymore. 
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    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.

    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #2 on: July 10, 2018, 01:14:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mega-fin on July 10, 2018, 12:10:44 PM
    Strange that traditional Catholics would regularly practice mortal sin and be fine with it. But I guess nothing is sacred anymore.
    I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!  
    .
    I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin.  Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way.  And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
    .
    Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer.  If used rectally, no high.  
    .
    God gave us the plants for reasons.  
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #3 on: July 10, 2018, 01:35:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 10, 2018, 01:14:28 PM
    I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!  
    .
    I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin.  Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way.  And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
    .
    Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer.  If used rectally, no high.  
    .
    God gave us the plants for reasons.  

    I recall last year an SSPX priest gave a homily on why smoking marijuana is sinful. When it is smoked for non-medical reasons, it is to get high. Alcohol, in moderation, is used by Catholics to relax. There's a difference.

    Regarding addiction, my brother was very addicted to it. He had to give it up only because he couldn't afford it anymore. It was either buy food, or pot. He chose food. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #4 on: July 10, 2018, 01:41:21 PM »
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    • While I am against it personally and would oppose legalization for recreational use, there may be medicinal qualities. That is not sinful.
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    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #5 on: July 10, 2018, 02:09:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 10, 2018, 01:14:28 PM
    I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing! 
    They are claims of medical benefits, not sure how legit the claims are but I'm all for it as a medicine if it actually has a chance of working. Legalizing it for "recreational use" is a complete disaster though.

    There is a compound in marijuana called CBD that does not make anyone stoned, but from the things I've read, it's the next greatest wonder drug ever - according to the claims, it cures or helps everything from Asthma to Cancer to Alzheimer and everything in between. 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #6 on: July 10, 2018, 03:17:05 PM »
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    • As someone who has benefited from the medical benefits from it I can say it’s not just a claim. 
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #7 on: July 10, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on July 10, 2018, 03:17:05 PM
    As someone who has benefited from the medical benefits from it I can say it’s not just a claim.
    Good to know!

    With all the crooks out there, it's hard to tell whats what anymore, so your testament for it is much appreciated!
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #8 on: July 10, 2018, 03:40:17 PM »
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    • They have a rich theological history and even "saints" behind their movement for recognition.


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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #9 on: July 10, 2018, 03:49:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 10, 2018, 01:14:28 PM
    I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!  
    .
    I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin.  Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way.  And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
    .
    Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer.  If used rectally, no high.  
    .
    God gave us the plants for reasons.  
    Medicinal is fine. Recreational is a sin to use. I was assuming the people using it was for a recreational manner, my bad. 
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    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #10 on: July 11, 2018, 02:06:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 10, 2018, 01:14:28 PM
    I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!  
    .
    I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin.  Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way.  And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
    .
    Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer.  If used rectally, no high.  
    .
    God gave us the plants for reasons.  
    Where does the Bible talk about cannabis?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #11 on: July 11, 2018, 03:42:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 10, 2018, 02:09:07 PM
    They are claims of medical benefits, not sure how legit the claims are but I'm all for it as a medicine if it actually has a chance of working. Legalizing it for "recreational use" is a complete disaster though.

    There is a compound in marijuana called CBD that does not make anyone stoned, but from the things I've read, it's the next greatest wonder drug ever - according to the claims, it cures or helps everything from Asthma to Cancer to Alzheimer and everything in between.
    .
    It's a fine line between CBD and THC. They are two different substances but they come from the same plant.
    .
    CBD doesn't produce any "high" like THC does, but has several prominent medicinal effects the most remarkable of which is its anti-inflammatory power. I'm waiting to see case studies where CBD is compared objectively with other anti-inflammatory agents such as ibuprofen, for example. You can presently go to a smoke shop like one that sells e-cigs or pipes, tobacco and accessories (hookah) and get CBD oil in a range of concentrations. A 2-ounce bottle with a dropper cap can range from $15 to $100 depending on strength. So a 10-drop dose from the weaker bottle is comparable to one or two drops from the most powerful bottle. People suffering from migraine headaches claim this relieves the pain instantaneously, like nothing else they know of. And there is no "high" involved, just a general soothing effect like a body-wide reduction in stress.
    .
    Marijuana edibles don't require you to smoke it, just eat it. And when eating this, both THC and CBD is consumed. So for some users, the difference might not be discernible. And for someone who is trying to avoid THC, the taking of CBD for medical reasons could greatly increase the urge to smoke some more dope.
    .
    There is a kind of appetite associated, but "addiction" might be too strong of a word. It's certainly not addictive like alcohol or heroin or certain drugs like opioid pain relievers (cocaine, oxycodone, etc.). Someone might have a hankering for smoking dope but it's more like the urge to eat chocolate cake or drink pineapple juice, than it is like feeding your manifest addiction by getting a caffeine fix.
    .
    And who is up-in-arms about the sinfulness of drinking coffee?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #12 on: July 11, 2018, 11:13:11 AM »
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    • I'm not convinced that using marijuana is always sinful.  Moral Theology book from Jone-Adelman states that the use of drugs even WITHOUT sufficient reason occasionally and in small quantities is only a venial sin.  So, if someone took ONE hit of marijuana, that's a mortal sin?  I highly doubt that.  But if you read Father Peter Scott's borderline-Jansenistic anti-marijuana article from 1999, you'd think so.  This is not to excuse venial sin.  But then if there are proportionally sufficient reasons, then presumably it could be done without sin entirely.  I'll try to dig up the full context of Jone-Adelman on that one.  Father Peter Scott notably refuses to cite the section about justifying reasons.

    In addition, helping to lift one's mood amid the difficulties of life may in fact constitute sufficient reason.  It's universally accepted that it's OK to drink alcohol to the point of getting a little tipsy ... for "recreational" purposes.  Even Sacred Scripture extols wine as bringing joy to the heart.  Is there an equivalent dosage of marijuana that would likewise give joy to the heart without depriving someone of the use of reason?  I don't know, since I've never used the stuff.  So what if someone were to take a few hits of marijuana to get some relaxation and stress relief?  What exactly is the (morally-relevant) difference between that and popping some xanax prescribed by a doctor?  Father Scott lists among the reasons why drug use is evil that people are trying to run away from their crosses in life.  So anyone who seeks any comfort in this life commits a sin?  Father Scott labels any priests who claim that marijuana is not a mortal sin as lax.  All this smacks of Jansenism, the part about pleasure being evil.  Father Scott never explains why it's OK to drink alcohol but not OK to smoke marijuana.  He seems to proceed on the assumption that ANY amount of drug use instantly deprives someone of the use of reason, just as only a certain level of drunkenness does.  But really?  Taking a single hit of marijuana instantly deprives someone of their reason ... while it might take several beers to have the same effect?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #13 on: July 11, 2018, 11:28:44 AM »
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    • Here's the quote from Jone:
    Quote
    To use narcotics in small quantities and only occasionally, is a venial sin if done without a sufficient reason. Any proportionately good reason justifies their use, e.g., to calm the nerves, dispel insomnia, etc.

    So if someone has a very high-stress life or just has issues with anxiety and wants to use a little marijuana every so often just to relax, it sounds like that can be done without sin.  To use large quantities (presumably enough to completely deprive oneself of reason) or often, would be a mortal sin.  But to use lesser amounts (and not regularly) even WITHOUT sufficient reason would be a venial sin rather than a mortal sin.  This principles make sense to me based on double effect.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The First Church of Cannabis
    « Reply #14 on: July 11, 2018, 12:47:28 PM »
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    • I've never really cared about this type of thing, but I agree, I've heard that it can, in theory, be used without committing a mortal sin.  However, a venial sin would be committed without a good need for it. 

    I absolutely know, and science proves, that cannabis oil is VERY good for you, especially for those with central nervous system disorders.
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