Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Carissima on July 10, 2018, 12:05:29 PM
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I know several Traditional Catholics that smoke marijuana regularly and believe it to be perfectly acceptable. Women and men. Some of them even have small children.
Would it enlighten them to know that this place exists?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/judge-rules-against-church-seeking-to-offer-marijuana-as-holy-sacrament_us_5b437937e4b07b827cc30212 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/judge-rules-against-church-seeking-to-offer-marijuana-as-holy-sacrament_us_5b437937e4b07b827cc30212)
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Strange that traditional Catholics would regularly practice mortal sin and be fine with it. But I guess nothing is sacred anymore.
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Strange that traditional Catholics would regularly practice mortal sin and be fine with it. But I guess nothing is sacred anymore.
I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!
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I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin. Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way. And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
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Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer. If used rectally, no high.
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God gave us the plants for reasons.
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I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!
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I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin. Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way. And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
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Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer. If used rectally, no high.
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God gave us the plants for reasons.
I recall last year an SSPX priest gave a homily on why smoking marijuana is sinful. When it is smoked for non-medical reasons, it is to get high. Alcohol, in moderation, is used by Catholics to relax. There's a difference.
Regarding addiction, my brother was very addicted to it. He had to give it up only because he couldn't afford it anymore. It was either buy food, or pot. He chose food.
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While I am against it personally and would oppose legalization for recreational use, there may be medicinal qualities. That is not sinful.
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I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!
They are claims of medical benefits, not sure how legit the claims are but I'm all for it as a medicine if it actually has a chance of working. Legalizing it for "recreational use" is a complete disaster though.
There is a compound in marijuana called CBD that does not make anyone stoned, but from the things I've read, it's the next greatest wonder drug ever - according to the claims, it cures or helps everything from Asthma to Cancer to Alzheimer and everything in between.
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As someone who has benefited from the medical benefits from it I can say it’s not just a claim.
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As someone who has benefited from the medical benefits from it I can say it’s not just a claim.
Good to know!
With all the crooks out there, it's hard to tell whats what anymore, so your testament for it is much appreciated!
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They have a rich theological history and even "saints" behind their movement for recognition.
(http://www.marijuana-picture.com/gallery/funny_marijuana_pictures/images/harry_pothead.jpg)
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I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!
.
I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin. Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way. And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
.
Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer. If used rectally, no high.
.
God gave us the plants for reasons.
Medicinal is fine. Recreational is a sin to use. I was assuming the people using it was for a recreational manner, my bad.
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I have never used the stuff, but the medical beneficial properties of it are amazing!
.
I am not sure using it, even casually, would qualify as a mortal sin. Even the Bible talks about it, in a positive way. And, As I understand, it is safer than alcohol, less addictive, and doesn't destroy your liver.
.
Furthermore, rick Simpson cannabis oil has been shown to CURE cancer. If used rectally, no high.
.
God gave us the plants for reasons.
Where does the Bible talk about cannabis?
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They are claims of medical benefits, not sure how legit the claims are but I'm all for it as a medicine if it actually has a chance of working. Legalizing it for "recreational use" is a complete disaster though.
There is a compound in marijuana called CBD that does not make anyone stoned, but from the things I've read, it's the next greatest wonder drug ever - according to the claims, it cures or helps everything from Asthma to Cancer to Alzheimer and everything in between.
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It's a fine line between CBD and THC. They are two different substances but they come from the same plant.
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CBD doesn't produce any "high" like THC does, but has several prominent medicinal effects the most remarkable of which is its anti-inflammatory power. I'm waiting to see case studies where CBD is compared objectively with other anti-inflammatory agents such as ibuprofen, for example. You can presently go to a smoke shop like one that sells e-cigs or pipes, tobacco and accessories (hookah) and get CBD oil in a range of concentrations. A 2-ounce bottle with a dropper cap can range from $15 to $100 depending on strength. So a 10-drop dose from the weaker bottle is comparable to one or two drops from the most powerful bottle. People suffering from migraine headaches claim this relieves the pain instantaneously, like nothing else they know of. And there is no "high" involved, just a general soothing effect like a body-wide reduction in stress.
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Marijuana edibles don't require you to smoke it, just eat it. And when eating this, both THC and CBD is consumed. So for some users, the difference might not be discernible. And for someone who is trying to avoid THC, the taking of CBD for medical reasons could greatly increase the urge to smoke some more dope.
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There is a kind of appetite associated, but "addiction" might be too strong of a word. It's certainly not addictive like alcohol or heroin or certain drugs like opioid pain relievers (cocaine, oxycodone, etc.). Someone might have a hankering for smoking dope but it's more like the urge to eat chocolate cake or drink pineapple juice, than it is like feeding your manifest addiction by getting a caffeine fix.
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And who is up-in-arms about the sinfulness of drinking coffee?
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I'm not convinced that using marijuana is always sinful. Moral Theology book from Jone-Adelman states that the use of drugs even WITHOUT sufficient reason occasionally and in small quantities is only a venial sin. So, if someone took ONE hit of marijuana, that's a mortal sin? I highly doubt that. But if you read Father Peter Scott's borderline-Jansenistic anti-marijuana article from 1999, you'd think so. This is not to excuse venial sin. But then if there are proportionally sufficient reasons, then presumably it could be done without sin entirely. I'll try to dig up the full context of Jone-Adelman on that one. Father Peter Scott notably refuses to cite the section about justifying reasons.
In addition, helping to lift one's mood amid the difficulties of life may in fact constitute sufficient reason. It's universally accepted that it's OK to drink alcohol to the point of getting a little tipsy ... for "recreational" purposes. Even Sacred Scripture extols wine as bringing joy to the heart. Is there an equivalent dosage of marijuana that would likewise give joy to the heart without depriving someone of the use of reason? I don't know, since I've never used the stuff. So what if someone were to take a few hits of marijuana to get some relaxation and stress relief? What exactly is the (morally-relevant) difference between that and popping some xanax prescribed by a doctor? Father Scott lists among the reasons why drug use is evil that people are trying to run away from their crosses in life. So anyone who seeks any comfort in this life commits a sin? Father Scott labels any priests who claim that marijuana is not a mortal sin as lax. All this smacks of Jansenism, the part about pleasure being evil. Father Scott never explains why it's OK to drink alcohol but not OK to smoke marijuana. He seems to proceed on the assumption that ANY amount of drug use instantly deprives someone of the use of reason, just as only a certain level of drunkenness does. But really? Taking a single hit of marijuana instantly deprives someone of their reason ... while it might take several beers to have the same effect?
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Here's the quote from Jone:
To use narcotics in small quantities and only occasionally, is a venial sin if done without a sufficient reason. Any proportionately good reason justifies their use, e.g., to calm the nerves, dispel insomnia, etc.
So if someone has a very high-stress life or just has issues with anxiety and wants to use a little marijuana every so often just to relax, it sounds like that can be done without sin. To use large quantities (presumably enough to completely deprive oneself of reason) or often, would be a mortal sin. But to use lesser amounts (and not regularly) even WITHOUT sufficient reason would be a venial sin rather than a mortal sin. This principles make sense to me based on double effect.
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I've never really cared about this type of thing, but I agree, I've heard that it can, in theory, be used without committing a mortal sin. However, a venial sin would be committed without a good need for it.
I absolutely know, and science proves, that cannabis oil is VERY good for you, especially for those with central nervous system disorders.
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I'm not convinced that using marijuana is always sinful. Moral Theology book from Jone-Adelman states that the use of drugs even WITHOUT sufficient reason occasionally and in small quantities is only a venial sin.
The worst evil that has ever come into the world, is Mortal Sin. The second worst evil that has ever come into this world, is Venial Sin.
I'm confident you did not intend to imply that venial sin is akin to something God tolerates or is acceptable to God, but many people do in fact view venial sin in that light. If your moral theologian admits recreational use is a venial sin, then that should be enough to convince you that using it for non-medicinal, i.e. recreational purposes, is in fact committing the second worst evil that there is.
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I've never really cared about this type of thing, but I agree, I've heard that it can, in theory, be used without committing a mortal sin. However, a venial sin would be committed without a good need for it.
I absolutely know, and science proves, that cannabis oil is VERY good for you, especially for those with central nervous system disorders.
Yes, the "good need" or "sufficient cause" criterion can be a little slippery. I've known people who have severe anxiety issues. So if they felt that they were helped by smoking a little marijuana a couple times a week, I wouldn't fault them. I see no difference between that and popping a xanax or some other sedative that a doctor could prescribe. But because one has a prescription and the other doesn't, is that a morally relevant difference? There's of course the aspect that we are also required to obey just laws, but I believe that the restriction of marijuana was done for political/economic reasons, and/or Puritanical ones, rather than for just cause. Alcohol causes 100 times more problems in society than marijuana ... and it remains legal.
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The worst evil that has ever come into the world, is Mortal Sin. The second worst evil that has ever come into this world, is Venial Sin.
I'm confident you did not intend to imply that venial sin is akin to something God tolerates or is acceptable to God, but many people do in fact view venial sin in that light. If your moral theologian admits recreational use is a venial sin, then that should be enough to convince you that using it for non-medicinal, i.e. recreational purposes, is in fact committing the second worst evil that there is.
Would you PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST instead of grabbing a snippet out of context, for crying out loud? :facepalm:
Just a couple sentences after the snippet you quote, I wrote:
This is not to excuse venial sin. But then if there are proportionally sufficient reasons, then presumably it could be done without sin entirely. I'll try to dig up the full context of Jone-Adelman on that one. Father Peter Scott notably refuses to cite the section about justifying reasons.
But it's important to classify mortal and venial correctly. You can't just falsely claim, based on flawed reasoning, that something is mortal sin in order to dissuade people from committing a venial sin.
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Would you PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST instead of grabbing a snippet out of context, for crying out loud? :facepalm:
Just a couple sentences after the snippet you quote, I wrote:
I go on to say that this is not to justify venial but to set up the notion that with SUFFICIENT cause there's no sin at all. Adelman-Jone lists "calming nerves" as sufficient cause. So I keep using the case of someone who has issues with anxiety.
My point was to correct your saying that it "is only a venial sin", as if a venial sin is nothing at all - that was the point of my reply. Not sure what else should I have said to get *that* point across to you.
I agreed that when used for medicinal purposes then there is no sin - even if one of the side effects is the associated euphoria.
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Yes, the "good need" or "sufficient cause" criterion can be a little slippery. I've known people who have severe anxiety issues. So if they felt that they were helped by smoking a little marijuana a couple times a week, I wouldn't fault them.
Right. The good news is that people don't need to smoke anymore and they won't have to worry about the immorality of getting high, in order to feel relief from a health problem. Cannabis oil is now available which has no danger of losing your state of reason. So, really, there's even now LESS of an excuse to smoke.
Though I've heard the argument that one can smoke to get a buzz just like one can drink a few beers. It's a valid argument, in theory, though I can't say that with any experience.
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I know several Traditional Catholics that smoke marijuana regularly and believe it to be perfectly acceptable. Women and men. Some of them even have small children.
Would it enlighten them to know that this place exists?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/judge-rules-against-church-seeking-to-offer-marijuana-as-holy-sacrament_us_5b437937e4b07b827cc30212 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/judge-rules-against-church-seeking-to-offer-marijuana-as-holy-sacrament_us_5b437937e4b07b827cc30212)
I cannot see what relevance the linked article has to these Traditional Catholics. It's not as though they are smoking for reasons of religion as claimed in the article:
[font=ProximaNovaSlim, Noto Sans KR, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Roboto, Arial, ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3, Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro, Osaka, メイリオ, Meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, MS PGothic, sans-serif]It is our fountain of health, our love, curing us from illness and depression. We embrace it with our whole heart and spirit, individually and as a group,” the complaint reads. [/font][/color]
I am aware that there are medical benefits from marijuana, as mentioned and claimed by previous posters. Marijuana should be allowed for the use of those who need it.
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My own personal experience with it was one joint almost 40 years ago. I felt no euphoria but I did experience distorted visual perception in that an article appeared to be further away from me that it was in reality. It I had no reason to use it except for curiosity and to be social.
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Also from my experience of neighbours who were regular and heavy users and commercial producers, (we lived in a so-called alternative environment as non-users) we were highly ostracised because we were not "one of them". There were a lot of paranoia and other mental problems which we believed to be a direct result of marijuana (ab)use.
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Certainly abuse of marijuana could amount to mortal sin, but that does not seem to be the case in the OP.
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Here is the quote: It is our fountain of health, our love, curing us from illness and depression. We embrace it with our whole heart and spirit, individually and as a group,” the complaint reads.
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Catholics should not be using substances that impair right reason for purposes of relaxation or recreation. If there is a medical need for them, that is perfectly acceptable. Anyone here saintly enough to undergo major surgery without anesthesia?
Regardless of one's opinion on the justice of laws against marijuana, to NOT use is neither against faith nor morals. Catholics are obliged to obey the law.
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My point was to correct your saying that it "is only a venial sin", as if a venial sin is nothing at all - that was the point of my reply.
Only was being used as a relative term (vs. mortal sin) -- it was a term to distinguish it from mortal, but not used in an absolute sense of, "Ah, that's only a venial sin."
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Right. The good news is that people don't need to smoke anymore and they won't have to worry about the immorality of getting high, in order to feel relief from a health problem. Cannabis oil is now available which has no danger of losing your state of reason. So, really, there's even now LESS of an excuse to smoke.
Though I've heard the argument that one can smoke to get a buzz just like one can drink a few beers. It's a valid argument, in theory, though I can't say that with any experience.
Sure. I've known (personally) more people hooked on xanax (prescribed for anxiety) than on marijuana. It's far more addictive. In fact, it's often combined with alcohol. I sat next to a poor young lady on a flight (returning from a business trip), and she was clearly all strung out. She admitted to me later that she was on the flight to go to a rehab center in my area and that she had gotten hooked on xanax and alcohol. In addition, a co-worker of mine had his teenage daughter hooked on the same combo ... and she had to go to rehab. But people don't think twice about the morality of popping a xanax (which can also mess with your head too) if it's prescribed by a doctor. It's as if big pharma is also in charge of tuning our moral compass.
I don't see any morally relevant difference between drinking alcohol just to get a buzz and smoking enough pot just to get a buzz. Now, those could be venial sins without sufficient reason, e.g. doing it a lot just for entertainment (as Jone cited) ... as long as you don't lose your rational faculties. But if you have anxiety and stress, and either a glass or two of wine (or some part of a joint that gets you to the same place), I don't see any difference between the two. PS -- I've never tried marijuana.