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Author Topic: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)  (Read 7405 times)

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Offline Hewkonian

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The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
« on: August 07, 2024, 06:33:20 PM »
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    • I have attached a .pdf transcript of the exorcism that was recorded and released, as well as a link to a 9-part video series with audio and subtitles.

    An interesting point in the transcript is when one of the demons, compelled to tell the truth, discusses the "reverse altar" and "hand communion" as Lucifer's greatest works.


    9-part video with audio: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFRNcRr2hqDfvUW_DtGzXFASf0R1bas4w&si=wqF2XqhRBTijAtX9
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    Offline rum

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #1 on: August 12, 2024, 10:49:31 AM »
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    • Have you seen the movie Exorcism of Emily Rose (2005), which is said to be based on many of Michel's experiences?
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    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Hewkonian

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #2 on: August 13, 2024, 05:40:57 PM »
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    • I try to avoid the тαℓмυdic tele as much as possible. Is it spiritually edifying and theologically sound? Does it present the case well? If so, I would consider watching it with my wife.
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    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2024, 08:07:17 PM »
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    • I really didn’t expect to be frightened by it, but it definitely is scary. It’s kind of a strange ending imo. I feel bad for the girl and her family. 
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #4 on: August 14, 2024, 08:27:46 PM »
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    • I'm skeptical that this was a true diabolical possession. The Roman Ritual lists three signs of demonic possession, which are: 1) knowledge of secret distant or hidden things; 2) ability to speak many words in an unknown foreign language, and 3) the ability to do things that are physically impossible.

    It is not clear at all that Anneliese Michel had any of these. Also, she had a long, severe history of mental illness, and this could easily account for her strange behavior. Unfortunately, she had the misfortune to suffer these symptoms after Vatican 2, when access to true Catholic priests was unavailable, who might have given an accurate diagnosis of her condition. As it was, she was left to the poor judgment of modernist clergy, who gravely mishandled her case, and their incompetence in identifying true diabolical possession may well have contributed to her death.

    Really a sad case. I think if she had lived before Vatican 2 she would have been given the proper counsel and treatment.
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    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2024, 09:16:03 PM »
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    • I didn’t know about any qualifications for possession, but I personally thought that she was possessed. I saw some other interviews of her as well. It was an interesting case.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #6 on: August 14, 2024, 10:45:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hewkonian on August 13, 2024, 05:40:57 PM
    I try to avoid the тαℓмυdic tele as much as possible. Is it spiritually edifying and theologically sound? Does it present the case well? If so, I would consider watching it with my wife.
    The film is very, very loosely based on the real case. It is geared more toward a largely ignorant-of-Catholicism general public level of audience than to Trads. Typical Hollywood focus on shrieks, screams, body contortions, bug eating, courtroom drama, and the like.

    On the plus side, it illustrates a bit the profound altruistic Charity that is a victim-soul and portrays the Priest as a good and honorable man.

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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #7 on: August 15, 2024, 07:07:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on August 14, 2024, 08:27:46 PM
    It is not clear at all that Anneliese Michel had any of these. Also, she had a long, severe history of mental illness, and this could easily account for her strange behavior. Unfortunately, she had the misfortune to suffer these symptoms after Vatican 2, when access to true Catholic priests was unavailable, who might have given an accurate diagnosis of her condition. As it was, she was left to the poor judgment of modernist clergy, who gravely mishandled her case, and their incompetence in identifying true diabolical possession may well have contributed to her death.

    I'm not buying this.  Modernist Clergy at the time generally were of the mind to deny the existence of diabolial possession.  I'm of the opinion that she was legitimately possessed, and it was in fact the atheist media and courts that claimed otherwise, due entirely to their lack of belief in possession.
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    Offline rum

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #8 on: August 15, 2024, 07:42:39 AM »
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    • Have you ever seen the Exorcism of Emily Rose, Ladislaus?
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    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline rum

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #9 on: August 15, 2024, 07:44:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on August 14, 2024, 10:45:53 PM
    The film is very, very loosely based on the real case. It is geared more toward a largely ignorant-of-Catholicism general public level of audience than to Trads. Typical Hollywood focus on shrieks, screams, body contortions, bug eating, courtroom drama, and the like.

    On the plus side, it illustrates a bit the profound altruistic Charity that is a victim-soul and portrays the Priest as a good and honorable man.
    I saw it when it first came out and was surprised that, by jw-hollywood standards, the material was more thoughtfully approached than I expected.
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    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #10 on: August 15, 2024, 10:17:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 15, 2024, 07:07:38 AM
    I'm not buying this.  Modernist Clergy at the time generally were of the mind to deny the existence of diabolial possession.  I'm of the opinion that she was legitimately possessed, and it was in fact the atheist media and courts that claimed otherwise, due entirely to their lack of belief in possession.
    .

    Well, it doesn't follow from this that the priests who thought she was possessed must have been right. What does follow, which I think is relevant, is that the necessary wisdom, principles and guidance necessary to ascertain whether she was truly possessed or not were lacking, and that the priests who handled her case on the belief that she was possessed may have been in error. This error could have caused them to apply the wrong remedy, since if you misidentify the problem, you will misidentify the solution as well. And in an age of general materialism, a minority of the population can fall into superstition by believing in supernatural activity to an excessive degree. It is the Church that provides the correct balance in questions like this, and the authority of the Church was not operating in the normal manner in this time period.

    That said, I'm not saying I think she was not possessed; she may have been, but the burden of proof is on the people who believe someone is possessed, and the Church tells us what burden of proof has to be met in alleged cases of demonic possession, and it does not appear that that burden of proof was met in her case.
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    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #11 on: August 15, 2024, 10:27:45 AM »
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    • I thought it portrayed the supernatural realm well. Sometimes it is just special effects, but I thought the film captured the essence without extensive use of them. That’s why it is scary. 
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #12 on: August 15, 2024, 10:35:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: rum on August 15, 2024, 07:44:39 AM
    I saw it when it first came out and was surprised that, by jw-hollywood standards, the material was more thoughtfully approached than I expected.

    Quote from: Vanguard on August 15, 2024, 10:27:45 AM
    I thought it portrayed the supernatural realm well. Sometimes it is just special effects, but I thought the film captured the essence without extensive use of them. That’s why it is scary.
    Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't call it a bad film, I just meant that it is more a dramatic creation and less a docuмentary looking to have all the details correct.

    I have it on DVD. If I recall correctly, in the "bonus features" it says that they filmed a sex-scene between the defense attorney and her assistant, but the director thought it didn't fit well and chucked it. Rare thing, kudos to him.

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    Offline Hewkonian

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #13 on: August 15, 2024, 01:07:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on August 15, 2024, 10:17:07 AM
    .

    Well, it doesn't follow from this that the priests who thought she was possessed must have been right. What does follow, which I think is relevant, is that the necessary wisdom, principles and guidance necessary to ascertain whether she was truly possessed or not were lacking, and that the priests who handled her case on the belief that she was possessed may have been in error. This error could have caused them to apply the wrong remedy, since if you misidentify the problem, you will misidentify the solution as well. And in an age of general materialism,a minority of the population can fall into superstition by believing in supernatural activity to an excessive degree. It is the Church that provides the correct balance in questions like this, and the authority of the Church was not operating in the normal manner in this time period.

    That said, I'm not saying I think she was not possessed; she may have been, but the burden of proof is on the people who believe someone is possessed, and the Church tells us what burden of proof has to be met in alleged cases of demonic possession, and it does not appear that that burden of proof was met in her case.
    Have you read the transcript attached to my original post? That alone should open the eyes of any skeptic. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Transcript and Audio with Subtitles)
    « Reply #14 on: August 15, 2024, 01:22:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on August 15, 2024, 10:17:07 AM
    Well, it doesn't follow from this that the priests who thought she was possessed must have been right. 

    Of course.  I'm just saying that if they were wrong, it probably wasn't due to Modernism, as the Modernists tended to disbelieve in the very possibility of diabolical possession.  I tend to believe she was actually possessed ... but I'm not means certain of it, nor have I studied the matter enough to hold anything other than an extremely tentative position.
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