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Offline poche

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The Coyote Saint
« on: July 07, 2018, 05:30:47 AM »
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  • Santa Ana de Guadalupe, Mexico – As the United States calls out the National Guard and prepares to build new fences along the border, some migrants in this deeply Catholic area are seeking assistance – but not from some ordinary coyote or guide.

    They're turning to a saint.

    His name is Toribio Romo González, a priest whose rise to sainthood began in the 1920s, after he was killed during a Christian uprising in this central-coastal state of Jalisco.

    To many, he's known as a patron of migrants – a figure who, legend has it, has led to safety many who have braved the hazards of border crossings.


    http://www.banderasnews.com/0607/nr-migrantssaint.htm

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 10:14:03 AM »
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  • Welcome to Novus Ordo World where a saint is reported to help people break the border law of another nation, a law which is neither immoral nor unjust.  Strange story indeed, made even stranger in view of what has been reported ( http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-immigrants-saint-20140713-story.html) about him: "Unlike St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, Romo Gonzalez, who died a martyr at age 28, never paid particular attention to immigrants. In fact, in 1920 he wrote a play titled "Let's go north!" that warned migrants against traveling to the States. He worried that they would lose their values." Lose their values indeed!  Yes, the stories of men (and sometimes women) leaving their spouses and children behind in Mexico and ending up in adulterous affairs, drugs, and jail/prison are legion.  They have not only lost their values, but often their families as well.  (As for the spouse and children left back in Mexico, Guatamala or wherever -- they are often made more vulnerable to falling into serious sin without the presence of their spouse or father or mother.)

    I can remember Francis detesting the thought of the U.S. building a wall when it was pointed out that the Vatican has an immense wall surrounding it that has been standing way longer than the U.S. has existed.  I haven't head about any plans to tear down the Vatican's wall. 


    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Leonine Wall/Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #2 on: July 07, 2018, 06:00:50 PM »
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  • I can remember Francis detesting the thought of the U.S. building a wall when it was pointed out that the Vatican has an immense wall surrounding it that has been standing way longer than the U.S. has existed.

    Indeed, the latter wall is the famous Leonine Wall: the namesake project of Pope Saint (ahem!) Leo IV (A.D. 847--855) [*].

    Which makes that wall more than a century older than the archæological site, in modern coastal Canada, that's proof of any settlement in North America by any Europeans, in this case a Scandinavian expedition seeking "Vinland" (~1000).  And 7 centuries older than San Agustin (1565): the oldest permanent settlement in the future continental U.S.A.

    The Vatican Hill is on the wrong side of the Tiber to have been enclosed in any of the wall-building projects decreed or sponsored by Roman Emperors.

    Alas, no later than A.D. 846, when the Mediterranean had become practically a Saracen lake, Saracen raiders [☪] had learned that there was wealth worth taking outside the imperial Roman walls: Wealth that had been accumulated there by a successful religious organization, which had been free of persecution for 1/2 millennium.  Pope Sergius II (844--847) had no viable defenses against those Saracens when they rowed a fleet of boats up the Tiber that year, and sacked Old St. Peter's Basilica and St. Paul's Outside the Walls.

    In the following year, Leo IV was elected to the Chair of St. Peter, and must've made some kind of promise--if not a formal oath--to the effect "Never again!"  So he led a hike around the unprotected perimeter of the Vatican, much like a Rogation Day procession, except that the location of his footsteps was recorded.  Then he decreed that a defensive wall be built along his footsteps.  Altho' Rome then existed in the "reduced circumstances" of the mere Duchy of Rome, Holy Roman Emperor Lothair (r. 843--855) contributed substantially, as did cities and the proprietors of various properties in the duchy.  While the wall was still under construction, Saracens attempted another raid, but before they could enter the river, they were sunk or dispersed by a "tempest" (849).

    The wall was completed in 852, and solemnly blessed by Leo.  There must have been substantial Grace from God speeding not only that project, but also the surprisingly numerous additional defensive or restoration projects of Leo, because the royal agreements known as the Treaty of Verdun (843) [×] had provided a period of peace among the royal contenders who were foolishly fighting over the succession and territory of the Holy Roman Empire.  This was wasting money & manpower urgently needed elsewhere, e.g., the empire's northern lands, which were also under attack, but from Vikings.  In the year after the wall was completed, the restraining power of the treaty faded away [×].

    The 3rd time that Saracens attacked Rome (perhaps after Leo's death, the attack not being mentioned in the cited article [*]), they were defeated by Roman defenders.

    -------
    Note *: Horace Mann. "Pope St. Leo IV".  The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 9.  Robert Appleton Co.: New York, 1910. <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09159a.htm>.

    Note ☪: In ancient times, "Saracens" referred to (desert) bedouins, presumably ethnically Arabs.  By mediæval times, it referred specifically to Arab Muslims--practicing that unconvincingly alleged "Religion of Peace"--engaged in brigandage, piracy, and occasionally in more disciplined actual military operations.  Let's not forget that those operations were conducted mostly against predominately Christian populations and states, notably the Byzantine Empire.[♠]

    Note ♠: Aside from all that, it seemed highly likely to this member of CathInfo that the eastern "Saracen Lake" was actually Berber-majority (Greek Mauroi, then Latin Mauri, English "Moors") instead of Arab-majority.  But trying to confirm that, this member was overwhelmed by an avalanche of unfamiliar names, which is not an appealing way to spend multiple hours on a summer week-end day whose forecast thunderstorms haven't yet arrived.  It does seem that the occupation of Sicily, which was begun at Mazara by "Moors" in 827, had originated from Tunis and Algiers.  Certainly, the Muslim conquest of the Iberian Peninsula (i.e., Spain & Portugal) had been carried out primarily by Berber Muslims, and despite the dynastic and ethnic in-fighting, Muslims had held most of that peninsula for most of a century by the time of Pope St. Leo IV.

    Note ×: The Treaty of Verdun is far more than a sidelight on the projects of Pope St. Leo IV; it was a major event in the history of mediæval Europe, and in the shaping of modern Europe.  Alas, The Catholic Encyclopedia seems not to have any articles dedicated to the treaty nor, more surprisingly, to the Holy Roman Empire, nor its Emperors Lothair or (his son) Louis II.

    Offline Truecharity

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #3 on: July 07, 2018, 07:14:33 PM »
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  • Attributing a moniker of a criminal nature to a saintly person, is just wrong.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Re: Leonine Wall/Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #4 on: July 07, 2018, 08:00:42 PM »
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  • I haven't hea[r]d about any plans to tear down the Vatican's wall.

    It would be imprudent--if not downright foolish--to "tear down that wall",  given masses of alleged "refugees" entering southern Europe--including Italy--who are disproportionately young men, amazingly fit & trim and freshly clothed & shod, who look more like active-duty military on annual leave.  Yet sympathetic readers in the U.S.A. are self-righteouly led to expect to see women & children, obviously nearly starvation, and clothed in disintegrating rags.

    It could be great fun to watch the twitter feathers fly if "Pope Francis" publicly makes an issue of the labor and other resources used to build the U.S. southern-border wall.  Because history records that the Leonine Wall--that wall around the Vatican--was built by Saracens who were captured during their raids, then put to work as slave labor, according to the customs of the times--even those of the Church.

    I wonder if any of those captured Saracen invaders were ever "reünited with their children", or assigned a date for court, then released into the population they'd invaded, hmmm?


    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #5 on: July 07, 2018, 10:54:14 PM »
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  • Welcome to Novus Ordo World where a saint is reported to help people break the border law of another nation, a law which is neither immoral nor unjust.  Strange story indeed, made even stranger in view of what has been reported ( http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-immigrants-saint-20140713-story.html) about him: "Unlike St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, Romo Gonzalez, who died a martyr at age 28, never paid particular attention to immigrants. In fact, in 1920 he wrote a play titled "Let's go north!" that warned migrants against traveling to the States. He worried that they would lose their values." Lose their values indeed!  Yes, the stories of men (and sometimes women) leaving their spouses and children behind in Mexico and ending up in adulterous affairs, drugs, and jail/prison are legion.  They have not only lost their values, but often their families as well.  (As for the spouse and children left back in Mexico, Guatamala or wherever -- they are often made more vulnerable to falling into serious sin without the presence of their spouse or father or mother.)

    I can remember Francis detesting the thought of the U.S. building a wall when it was pointed out that the Vatican has an immense wall surrounding it that has been standing way longer than the U.S. has existed.  I haven't head about any plans to tear down the Vatican's wall.
    If it is a saint helping someone cross the desert in safety then he is acting under the law of God, not the law of man.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #6 on: July 07, 2018, 11:00:45 PM »
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  • Attributing a moniker of a criminal nature to a saintly person, is just wrong.
    Doing the Will of God is not criminal.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 11:02:46 PM »
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  • The popularity of the priest has soared since he died in 1928. Many Mexicans who have headed north or returned home tell inspirational stories about being spared through St. Toribio's intervention.

    Luciano González López, 45, who returned not long ago to his hometown of Teocatilche from Denver, tells such a tale.

    Last year, he said, he and two other men were on their way to Colorado in search of work, when they got lost in the smoldering Arizona desert.

    They walked for nearly two days without water, he said, when suddenly they saw a shadowy figure standing next to what looked like an ocean.

    "It wasn't an ocean," he said. (They were, after all, in the middle of the Sonoran Desert.) "But the sight of this man next to an ocean gave us enough hope to follow him out."

    With tears rolling down his cheek as his son Benito put an arm around him, he went on:

    "When I told my wife back in Mexico, she responded: 'It was St. Toribio, the migrant-smuggling saint, leading you to safety. I had been praying to him for your well-being.'"


    "Suddenly, everything made sense. It was a santo coyote who saved us."

    http://www.banderasnews.com/0607/nr-migrantssaint.htm


    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 11:55:04 PM »
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  • Such stories – and such faith – have made St. Toribio's hometown a thriving destination for tourists and religious pilgrims. A few years ago, The New York Times described Santa Ana de Guadalupe as "once a dying village of 400 cattle farmers." Today, the remote town attracts hundreds, sometimes thousands, of visitors each week. Many are Mexicans living in the U.S. who are home for a visit. Many are migrants about to head north.

    A new, larger church is under construction. Street vendors do a brisk trade hawking everything from religious medals to pirated CDs, including one compilation of Mexican folk songs heralding St. Toribio's works.

    "He was killed years ago, but his soul is still very much with us today," said Juana Romo, a 79-year-old vendor who identified herself as a cousin of the dead saint.



    http://www.banderasnews.com/0607/nr-migrantssaint.htm

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #9 on: July 10, 2018, 02:29:25 AM »
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  • Father Romo was killed on Feb. 25, 1928, by Mexican soldiers during the Cristero War, a popular uprising against the anti-clerical provisions of the 1917 Mexican Constitution. In 2000, Pope John Paul II canonized him and 24 other Catholics martyred in the war.

    "He was a priest with a sensitive heart, an ardent homilist," according to the Vatican's official Web site. "A lover of the Eucharist, he often prayed, 'Lord, do not leave me, nor permit a day of my life to pass, without my saying the Mass, without receiving your embrace in Communion.' "


    http://www.banderasnews.com/0607/nr-migrantssaint.htm

    I think that is a good plan, Lord do not leave me, nor permit a day of my life to pass without my going to mass, without receiving your embrace in Communion.  

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #10 on: July 10, 2018, 12:18:16 PM »
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  • If I saw a Mexican drowning as he was swimming across the Rio Grande to enter the U.S. illegally or one stranded in the desert after crossing into the U.S. illegally, I would try to save them as perhaps the so called "Coyote [unusual name assignment since it is the slang name given to one who illegally smuggles people across borders of countries]  Saint" would do.

    After I did that, on the other hand, I'd try to notify "La Migra" (the border patrol) so they could take them into custody.  I have no idea if the "Coyote Saint" would do that as well, although I kind of doubt it.  In any event, the border patrol if they share the same patron saint (St. Michael the Archangel) as police officers could certainlly thank St. Michael for helping to apprehend those who are supposedly helped from being apprehended by the "Coyote Saint." 


    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #11 on: July 10, 2018, 10:53:08 PM »
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  • If I saw a Mexican drowning as he was swimming across the Rio Grande to enter the U.S. illegally or one stranded in the desert after crossing into the U.S. illegally, I would try to save them as perhaps the so called "Coyote [unusual name assignment since it is the slang name given to one who illegally smuggles people across borders of countries]  Saint" would do.

    After I did that, on the other hand, I'd try to notify "La Migra" (the border patrol) so they could take them into custody.  I have no idea if the "Coyote Saint" would do that as well, although I kind of doubt it.  In any event, the border patrol if they share the same patron saint (St. Michael the Archangel) as police officers could certainlly thank St. Michael for helping to apprehend those who are supposedly helped from being apprehended by the "Coyote Saint."
    Both St Michael and Father Romo answer to the Queen of Heaven. The Holy Virgin is a mother to all her children.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #12 on: July 11, 2018, 12:37:06 AM »
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  • I can remember Francis detesting the thought of the U.S. building a wall when it was pointed out that the Vatican has an immense wall surrounding it that has been standing way longer than the U.S. has existed.  I haven't head about any plans to tear down the Vatican's wall.



    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Leonine Wall/Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #13 on: July 11, 2018, 01:09:24 AM »
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  • It would be imprudent--if not downright foolish--to "tear down that wall",  given masses of alleged "refugees" entering southern Europe--including Italy--who are disproportionately young men, amazingly fit & trim and freshly clothed & shod, who look more like active-duty military on annual leave.  Yet sympathetic readers in the U.S.A. are self-righteouly led to expect to see women & children, obviously nearly starvation, and clothed in disintegrating rags.

    It could be great fun to watch the twitter feathers fly if "Pope Francis" publicly makes an issue of the labor and other resources used to build the U.S. southern-border wall.  Because history records that the Leonine Wall--that wall around the Vatican--was built by Saracens who were captured during their raids, then put to work as slave labor, according to the customs of the times--even those of the Church.

    I wonder if any of those captured Saracen invaders were ever "reünited with their children", or assigned a date for court, then released into the population they'd invaded, hmmm?
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Coyote Saint
    « Reply #14 on: July 11, 2018, 02:04:20 AM »
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  • Some Mexicans said even more migrants will seek the protection of St. Toribio, as Americans step up efforts to curb illegal border crossings.

    Yet, few people here expect the border measures – from more troops to higher walls to costly night-vision cameras – to much discourage illegal migration, despite its risks. Last year, almost 500 people, most of them Mexicans, died trying to reach U.S. soil.

    And so, many people from across Mexico are flocking to this region, known as Los Altos de Jalisco, in search of a guide with a reputation for divine powers. Many maintain that only a miracle can help them overcome the growing array of obstacles.

    "The number of migrants coming here in search of miracles is growing and will only get bigger," said the Rev. Gabriel González Pérez, parish priest of the small chapel where the remains of St. Toribio are buried.



    http://www.banderasnews.com/0607/nr-migrantssaint.htm

     

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