Author Topic: The Church in Mid Evil-times was evil.....!?!? (Read 2262 times)

s2srea · « **on:** April 01, 2011, 04:39:43 PM »

This is from another, secular, forum. These people are pagans (self declared!) and I sometimes view what they have to say to challenge my apologetics. I was wondering if anyone has a defense to this. I know I've read that this is totally incorrect, of course, that this history was made to make the Church look bad, but I can't defen it

I'd love inuput!

There was a time when believing in god and Christianity was NOT an option. Under penalty of torture and death did the flock abide by the church, the clergy, the inquisitors. Excommunication and heresy were used as a hammer and anvil to beat compliance into a fearful populace whose fear of torture and death were very real. Fearful of darkness, of death, the weather, witches, the devil, disease, these people reached out for any answers in a pitiful absence of knowledge. Faith delivered these people from a short and brutal life. Thank god its optional now.

Lybus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:12:24 PM »

This is a very difficult topic, one that would involve a very long and very detailed answer. Books have been written on this. they're just making general statements without really giving any physical evidence.

I think, however, that it needs to be realized that there are very different different philosophical viewpoints here. According to modern times, "freethought" is, pretty much dogmatically, the highest good that can be attained. The world can be interpreted in any way that one wishes, essentially, is what this boils down to. If this is accepted, then one must essentially admit that universals don't exist.

Universal truths are "oppressive." They restrict freethinking. You believe what you want, I believe what I want, regardless of what the truth is.

That's what the modernists believe (correct me if I'm wrong). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, holds the philosophy of universal truths that are always truths no matter what people think. In and of itself, this is good, not evil.
Now, naturally there will always be those that refuse to accept these truths, and for the sake of the whole, the church has often times found it necessary (under circuмstances where other options have been exhausted) to burn heretics, excommunicate, etc, in order to preserve the integrity of the whole church and to purge it of sheep in wolve's clothing.

True, there have been very corrupt bishops and priests, but that's to be expected in any organization as massive and widespread as the catholic church. The Church, in and of itself, can never be blamed as evil, as it has a monopoly on truth and is not deprived of anything whatsoever.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:20:30 PM »

For starters, the Church was the only vehicle a person could ride out of Ignorance-land.

The priest was often consulted for medical and other reasons, because priests were educated and any knowledge of medicine was maintained by the great monasteries/universities. It was the Church that kept some small flame of knowledge alive during the dark ages.

Who do they think copied the docuмents that were later "rediscovered" during the Renaissance?

Just like the Protestants claim the Catholic Church wanted to keep people in ignorance of the Bible (because, of course, the Catholic Church is SO against everything in the Bible...yeah right!) So the Church nefariously copied the Bible by hand for many centuries, hoping The People would never get their hands on it.

You can't make this stuff up!

Matthew

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:29:31 PM »

Traditioninaction has a lot of good articles on the Medieval times, especially about the inquisition.

Here's one on how the Medieval man viewed the Mass.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/f020rp_Mass.htm

There are several there. Just go to their search engine, and type in Medieval, and you'll get a bunch of articles on the subject.

http://www.traditioninaction.org

Lybus · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:33:16 PM »

Top 10 Myths About the Middle Ages:

http://listverse.com/2009/01/07/top-10-myths-about-the-middle-ages/

May as well add that.

Caraffa · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:38:15 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

This is from another, secular, forum. These people are pagans (self declared!) and I sometimes view what they have to say to challenge my apologetics. I was wondering if anyone has a defense to this. I know I've read that this is totally incorrect, of course, that this history was made to make the Church look bad, but I can't defen it I'd love inuput!

There was a time when believing in god and Christianity was NOT an option. Under penalty of torture and death did the flock abide by the church, the clergy, the inquisitors. Excommunication and heresy were used as a hammer and anvil to beat compliance into a fearful populace whose fear of torture and death were very real. Fearful of darkness, of death, the weather, witches, the devil, disease, these people reached out for any answers in a pitiful absence of knowledge. Faith delivered these people from a short and brutal life. Thank god its optional now.

There are a lot of assumptions here. Just to touch on a few, first, the lay people weren't the only ones who faced the inquisition, the clergy did as well. Second, it is not wrong to punish or discipline heretics and sinners for their wayward behavior. Third, excommunication did not always result in death. Fourth, the latter part of the statement comes of as semi-gnostic; who's to say that the medievals didn't have knowledge.

Jehanne · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:48:10 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

There was a time when believing in god and Christianity was NOT an option. Under penalty of torture and death did the flock abide by the church, the clergy, the inquisitors. Excommunication and heresy were used as a hammer and anvil to beat compliance into a fearful populace whose fear of torture and death were very real. Fearful of darkness, of death, the weather, witches, the devil, disease, these people reached out for any answers in a pitiful absence of knowledge. Faith delivered these people from a short and brutal life. Thank god its optional now.

Hyperbole. The various Inquisitions were, in actuality, a very weak institution. Even in Spain, once Inquisitor would be assigned an area that was a few dozen to nearly one hundred square miles in area. There was no way that such an individual could ever "patrol" such an area. As long as one did not stick out, theologically, like a "sore thumb," you would not be noticed.

And, so what? Do you believe in the Enlightenment ideas of religious liberty, free-thought, religious and moral relativism, etc.? Such as ideas are foundationally contrary to all of the Catholic Faith and every true Pope has condemned such ideas as being absolutely heretical and contrary to the Revelation of the One and Triune God to humankind.

The various Inquisitions were a blessing not a curse. Heresy is to the soul what murder is to the body; why would anyone expect Medieval Catholic societies to tolerate the presence of manifest falsehood and error in their midst??? It is infinitely better to be burned alive than to die in one's heresies and sins and then go to Hell, the fiery furnace, which will last forever. Even an relapsed and/or unrepentant heretic at the stake could, in his or her final moments, make a Perfect Act of Contrition and, perhaps, pass into Purgatory instead of Hell. Condemning such obstinate individuals to the stake was the ultimate act of mercy.

Saying that the Inquisitions, excommunications, torture, etc. were wrong and/or immoral is to say that Truth does not exist, or is at least, "in the eye of the beholder." Of course, nothing could be further from the real Truth, which is the Catholic Faith, outside of which no one at all will be saved.

s2srea · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2011, 06:38:11 PM »

Thanks all for the input :)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2011, 07:45:52 PM »

The obvious first question: What supports your claims?

They have ZERO proof that the populace at large did NOT believe the tenets of the Faith. They just take it for granted...which is hardly what we might call "science"...Moderns are damn fools...

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2011, 07:49:19 PM »

Seriously, only tool bags of the slimiest variety think such things at this late stage of the game...

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2011, 08:33:04 PM »

+1 what gladius said. With all the information available to everyone at their fingertips on the internet, why these insane lies keep perpetuating is beyond me...well actually I know why they do..and its because of that one guy... :devil2:

Emerentiana · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2011, 08:38:58 PM »

Quote from: Lybus

Top 10 Myths About the Middle Ages:

http://listverse.com/2009/01/07/top-10-myths-about-the-middle-ages/

May as well add that.

Wonderful article! :applause:

Jamie · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2011, 03:18:05 PM »

Here are a couple of things that might help:

http://listverse.com/2009/01/07/top-10-myths-about-the-middle-ages/

http://listverse.com/2009/12/19/top-10-legacies-of-the-middle-ages/

http://listverse.com/2008/06/09/top-10-reasons-the-dark-ages-were-not-dark/

http://listverse.com/2011/02/15/top-10-reasons-we-should-revive-the-dark-ages/