Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Catholic religion vs. having some truths  (Read 2410 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31183
  • Reputation: +27098/-494
  • Gender: Male
The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
« on: February 11, 2007, 05:44:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This deserves to be addressed -- this is a very important topic.

    But since it was buried in a completely unrelated thread, I have started a new thread here.


    Posted by Trinity:
    Quote
    But there is a whole lot of that going around these days, more oxymorons than you can shake a stick at.  Liberal Catholic, ʝʊdɛօ Christian, to name just a couple.  In some cases, such as the one you site, it is merely a case of having your cake and eating it, too.  It's not so much an ideology with them as an all out grasping at anything they want.  So they stand firmly on both sides of the fence.  Double minded about one thing they will soon be double minded about other things, shifting from one position to other according to whatever serves them at the moment.


    To which Student responded:


    But not all non-Catholics fit this mold, and this really points out another aspect of my development since discovering the non-mainstream sources of news and ideas, of which Cryptogon is only one example.  And by that I mean this:  in shifting way over to the Catholic far right, I've actually come into contact with society's far left (although I think that term is inadequate).  I'm talking about sites like Cryptogon, Prieur, norelpref.com, etc, who are most decidedly not Catholic, although they are living more like Catholics than even most trads, but their anti-government stance brings them in line in many important ways with the trad countercultural critique.  That is, they are not Catholic and wouldn't want to be (norelpref even mocks Masonic conspiracy theorists), but no one can accuse these guys of being mindless drones of the system.  They see the manipulation, but don't conclude that the answer is pre-V2 Catholicism.

    Point is, they've gotten as far as they have without any religion at all, even being highly critical of it (and of course they wouldn't dream of making the trad/NO/prot distinctions that we do).  This has led to what could be called a mild crisis of faith in some sense for me over the last few months.  Basically, I've learned that one can be completely happy without reference to any divine being or other realm, or anything outside of oneself. As Prieur says, "you can find the meaning of life under a rock."  Now, to be sure, I am still Catholic, but only to avoid hell.  And I don't mean in the scrupulous sense, but in what we may call the legal sense.  Assuming there is a heaven and hell, I most definitely want to be Catholic, but I perceive no other need that religion fulfills.  I've become Cryptogon with Catholic theology tacked on top, rather ad-hoc.  Most people who are religious are so only because they are incapable of constructing meaning and happiness for themselves, due to their lack of creativity, and so they look for these things in something pre-packaged for easy consumption.  (Of course, that doesn't mean Catholicism is false; it could just be that "most people" who are religious simply don't understand religion.)  But I'm the opposite.  I'm easily intellectually independent and limber enough to be happy without an institutionalized religion, but haven't found proof that that religion is false, so I'm kept in it by fear.  I want to be Catholic, but when you recover the deep genuine,  life that's been corroded over by government mind-control, public schools, TV, the medical establishment, etc., I find that that life, which so few get to truly live, offers everything I need.

    So then the question becomes, why be Catholic, and I'm well aware of the apologetic tradition, but I've come to think of it this way:  the Catholic religion spread by civilization, and civilization is basically a history of nonsense, by which I mean essentially wars and killing.  Virtually every government in history, Catholic or not, came to power by war, and kept power for as long as it could through force.  Medieval western Christendom was particularly successful and actually lasted around a millenium (depending on which dates you choose), and so Catholicism became the religion of the West.  But historically it's been just one of many civilizations, all of which have had their births and deaths, and regarded their own histories and theologies as absolute.  Here are a lot of them:  http://www.darkage.fsnet.co.uk/PottedHistories.htm  It's hard to feel special after reading that.  And what are all of those little accounts on that site?  Mostly stories of conquest and demise, of peoples who through luck, cunning, or other nonsense became dominant for a time, milled around, and then perished forever.  Why are we not the same?
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Trinity

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3233
    • Reputation: +189/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 05:50:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm afraid I missed the point of your point, Chant.  Would you elucidate?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31183
    • Reputation: +27098/-494
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 06:13:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would agree that not all non-Catholics are completely unhappy, or are mindless sheep controlled by their passions. All those exaggerations do not fit reality.

    Remember that if someone REALLY FOCUSES on life in this world, they can make themselves rather comfortable (to a point -- God can always permit sickness, death, etc. which man has no remedy for). In fact, even the amount of "truth seeking" I have done has cost me much time and energy -- time I might have better spent on my spiritual life. I haven't been reading as many spiritual books, etc. and that isn't a good thing. (I hope to work on that a bit this Lent).

    The owner of the Cryptogon has found some truths, yes. But he is missing others. He might be in possession of MANY truths in the "natural order" which won't help at all when it comes time to die and be judged. Without sanctifying grace, you just get to be informed about the true nature of government, be healthy and drink raw milk, live on a beautiful farm in New Zealand, etc. and then die and go to Hell.

    What good is that?

    I'd rather be a less informed Catholic, who perhaps doesn't know as much about cօռspιʀαcιҽs, and drinks pasteurized milk (and therefore is less healthy, etc.) but has a greater chance of saving their soul because of the helps only the Catholic Church offers (including possession of the full truth about God)

    Catholics can benefit by various non-Catholics possessing this or that truth, by learning from them, but we would never want to ask them about religion. That is somewhere they are deficient and to be pitied.

    I would posit that Kevin would be even wiser (and would probably waste much less time) if he were Catholic. He has to wade through things that I can breeze over. He probably concerns himself with mind control, UFOs, time travel, etc. for all I know -- yet I know that time travel is impossible for a creature, and UFOs are merely advanced aircraft or manifestations of the devil (depending on which kind of UFO). Remember, all his wonderful "intelligence information" is tainted with a bit of Schadenfreude (pleasure taken at someone else's misery), since he has already bugged out to New Zealand and started a farm there. He must feel very safe as he gives us all the bad news about where things are headed -- because he REALLY THINKS he is safe from it all. It's all just an exciting movie for him.

    I am singling Kevin out because I have been reading his site for a while -- but other sites have even larger problems. I don't look for the "perfect resource", but instead I try to become that myself. I have the foundation to build on -- the Catholic Faith -- which helps me to know which bricks to add, and which to throw away. Only a Catholic can build the "ultimate building of truth".

    Catholics also have the true solution to all this -- unless Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, there WILL BE a massive chastisement. If that happens, we are all going to value every moment spent (up to today) on the spiritual life -- and we will value our Faith more than anything. Even if we have to die, our Faith will equip us with what we need.

    What happens is New Zealand is covered in fallout? Even if Kevin survives, how happy will he be without God? Especially in the desolation of a post-apocalyptic disaster. He might commit ѕυιcιdє, for all we know.

    I guess the point is, knowledge (like we have here at Cathinfo) is helpful, useful, etc. but it isn't everything. In fact, it is all useless without the Faith. Yes, I think that Catholics need to set a good example by throwing out their TVs, etc. so that left-wingers don't end up living more Catholic (and human) lives than Catholics do. But we Catholics need to take care of our souls first -- don't worry SO MUCH about the things of the earth. Satan is the "prince of this world" and our hope for happiness is not to be fulfilled here. Only in Heaven.

    Yes, acquire the truth about 9/11. Yes, start a garden/farm. Yes, trash your TV. Yes, conserve electricity, gasoline, water, etc. Yes, don't be materialistic. Yes, leave the suburbs. Yes, oppose the war in Iraq. But those things only help our earthly life, not our soul's well being. They are part of a Catholic way of life, but they won't save us. A deeper love of Our Lord, THAT will lead to our salvation.

    There is much more that can be said, but I just wanted to get things started.

    In Christ,

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline student

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 47
    • Reputation: +11/-1
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 06:16:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • OK, so now it's its own thread.  Anyway, all I'm saying is that whereas many people slide from the right along the spectrum to the left (like many kids when they go off to college), I started on the center-right, discovered traditionalism and went to the far right, and now I've gone behind the spectrum, so to speak, and reached the left in a way different from most.  I shouldn't say "reached," since I'm a Catholic and intend on remaining so.  I suppose what I mean is this:  through the internet I've met people whose worldview I agree with in remarkable detail, except for theology.  But then the question becomes, if religion is supposed to be more than simply a set of dogmas, and should have some application to  the world, but others who have no faith have essentially the same worldview I have, what exactly is the role of religion?

    It comes down to the salvation issue.

    Offline student

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 47
    • Reputation: +11/-1
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 06:25:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • OK, I see what you are saying and it is very good.  It's just that it's so hard to believe, looking back on history, that in the midst of all the nonsense (exploitation, war, killing) the world has seen in EVERY society EVERYWHERE, there's this little kernel of truth and beauty called Catholicism.   I do believe that, but we, or at least I, don't understand how mind-blowing it really is.


    Offline Trinity

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3233
    • Reputation: +189/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 06:40:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, salvation, student, which is the greatest of gifts.  But there are bennies here in this life, too.  There's the honeymoon phase of falling in love with Jesus, the growing security and peace as you learn to trust Him implicitly, the wonder as you are able to see and appreciate more things about the Trinity (culminating in the beatific vision, the ultimate bliss), and so on.  The Bible says, "Jesus is sufficient."  Sufficient for what?  Everything.  That's why the martyrs could go to their death singing.  Jesus was all they needed.  That's why St John of the Cross sang his way through imprisonment by his brothers.  No matter how dire the circuмstances Jesus can make it as meaningless as a flick of your fingers.  Of course, that is all depending on how close your relationship with Him is (unless He miraculously by passes the normal process).  Read the stories of the saints, student, and you will get an idea of how much more there is to this "religion" than religion.  And read the Song of Songs.

    I think, Chant, that way too many people think it is going to happen to someone else.  Without this false nirvana, I don't believe they would be sitting still for it.  Keep in mind to pray for the gift of final perserverence.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline student

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 47
    • Reputation: +11/-1
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 08:41:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://www.tbo.com/life/MGBUFCRF5WE.html

    Check #47.  Fits pretty well with Catholic doctrine, wouldn't you say?

    Offline Kephapaulos

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1802
    • Reputation: +457/-15
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 08:45:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Student,

    One can have limited happiness on the natural level, but eternal happiness can only be had on the supernatural level, i.e. adhering to the Catholic faith inviolate.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31183
    • Reputation: +27098/-494
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 09:57:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: student
    http://www.tbo.com/life/MGBUFCRF5WE.html

    Check #47.  Fits pretty well with Catholic doctrine, wouldn't you say?


    What exactly do you mean?

    Obviously worshipping a python is against Catholic teaching, being a violation of the 1st commandment -- if that's what you're asking.

    Or are you saying that it contradicts Genesis, which says that Man started out knowing the true God, and only after the Fall began corrupting religion (with the devil's help, of course) as mankind as a whole descended into paganism and idolatry.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline student

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 47
    • Reputation: +11/-1
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #9 on: February 11, 2007, 10:14:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Exactly, of all animals, it's the snake they worshipped, just like Catholicism teaches.   The whole world was in the clutches of the devil before Christ.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31183
    • Reputation: +27098/-494
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #10 on: February 11, 2007, 10:43:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you have some time, I would recommend reading "The Life of Christ, Vol. 1" from the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich.

    Particularly the first 1/4 or so of the book -- it covers the earliest age of man. It's fascinating how the various races went out over the earth (after the Great Flood), and the devil was already in there corrupting things.

    There were several sorcerers and sorceresses (basically, people who get power from the devil in exchange for their soul) and a couple large figures in particular. They set up many of the pagan worship systems (invented many deities, defined how to invoke those deities, etc.) all coming from the devil, of course.

    It helps to explain where idolatry came from, in the concrete.

    Did you know that pretty much every primitive race has a "flood legend"? It's interesting how the pagans have little grams here and there of truth.

    I found the reading fascinating.

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31183
    • Reputation: +27098/-494
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #11 on: February 11, 2007, 10:45:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is an excerpt from it:

    7. The Tower of Babel

    The building of the Tower of Babel was the work of pride. The builders aimed at constructing something according to their own ideas, and thus resist the guidance of God. When the children of Noe had become very numerous, the proudest and most experienced among them met to resolve upon the execution of some work so great and so strong as to be the wonder of all ages to come and cause the builders to be spoken of as the most skillful, the most powerful of men. They thought not of God, they sought only their own glory. Had it been otherwise, as I was distinctly told, God would have allowed their undertaking to succeed. The children of Sem took no active part in the work. They dwelt in a level country where palm trees and similar choice fruit grow. They were, however, obliged to contribute something toward the building, for they did not dwell so far distant at that period as they did later. The descendants of Cham and Japhet alone were engaged in the work; and because the Semites refused to join them, they called them a stupid race. The Semites were less numerous than the children of Cham and Japhet, and among them the family of Heber and the ancestors of Abraham studiously refrained from encouraging the enterprise.

    Upon Heber who, as we have said, took no part in the work, God cast His eyes; and amid the general disorder and corruption, He set him and his posterity apart as a holy nation. God gave him also a new and holy language possessed by no other nation, that thereby his race should be cut off from communication with all others. This language was the pure Hebrew, or Chaldaic. The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Sem, and Noe, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India, and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. The book that I see in modern Ctesiphon, on the Tigris, is written in that language. Heber was still living at the time of Semiramis. His grandfather Arphaxad, was the favorite son of Sem. He was a man of great judgment and full of profound wisdom. But a good deal of idolatrous worship and sorcery may have been handed down by him. The Magi derive their origin from him.

    The Tower of Babel was built upon rising ground, about two leagues in circuмference, around which lay an extensive plain covered with fields, gardens, and trees. To the foundations of the Tower, that is up to its first story, twenty-five very broad stone walks led from all sides of the plain. Twenty-five tribes were engaged in the building, and each tribe had its own road to the Tower. Off in the distance, where these roads began, each tribe had its own particular city that, in time of danger or attack, they might flee to the Tower for shelter. The Tower was intended likewise to serve as a temple for their idolatrous worship. The stone roads were, where they took their rise in the plain, tolerably far apart; but around the Tower, they lay so close that the intervening spaces were not greater than the breadth of a wide street. Before reaching the Tower, they were connected by cross arches, and between every two there opened a gateway about ten feet wide into its base. When these gently inclined roads had reached a certain height, they were pierced by single arcades. Near the Tower the arcades were double, one above the other, so that through them one could make the circuit of the building, even around the lowest part, under all the roads. Above the arches that connected the inclined roads were walks, or streets, running horizontally around the Tower.

    Those gently rising roads extended like the roots of a tree. They were designed in part, as supporting counter-pillars to strengthen the foundation of the immense building, and partly as roads for the conveyance from all points of building materials and other loads to the first story of the Tower. Between these extended bases were encampments upon substructures of stone. In many places the tops of the tents rose above the roads that ran through them. From every encampment, steps cut in the walls led up to the walks. One could go all around the Tower through the encampments and arches and under the stone roads.

    Besides the occupants of the encampments, there were others who lived in the vaults and spaces on either side of the stone roads. In and around the whole building swarmed innumerable living beings. It was like a huge anthill. Countless elephants, asses, and camels toiled up and down the raods with their heavy burdens. Although these burdens were far broader than the animals themselves, yet several could with ease pass one another on the roads. On them were halting places for feeding and unloading the animals, also tents on the level spaces and even factories. I saw animals without a guide bearing their burdens up and down. The gateways in the basement of the Tower led into a labyrinth of halls, passages, and chambers. From this lower part of the Tower, one could mount by steps cut out on all sides. A spiral walk wound from the first story around the exterior of the polygonal building. The interior at this point consisted of cellars, immense and secure, covered chambers and passages.

    The building was begun on all sides at once. All tended to one central point where at first stood a large encampment. They used tiles, also immense hewed stones, which they hauled to the site. The surface of the walks was quite white, and it glistened in the sun. At a distance, the sight it presented was wonderful. The Tower was planned most skillfully. I was told that it would have been finished and would now be standing as a magnificent monument of human skill, had it been erected to the honor of God. But the builders thought not of God. Their work was the offspring of presumption. The names of those that had contributed to the grandeur and magnificence of the building were inscribed with words of praise in the vaults and on the pillars; in the former by means of different colored stones, and on the latter in large characters. There were no kings, but only the heads of the different families, and they ruled according to common counsel. The stones employed in the building were skillfully wrought. They fitted into one another, held one another together. There were no raised figures on the building, but many parts of it were inlaid with colored stones and, here and there, were figures hewn in niches. Canals and cisterns were constructed for water supplies. All lent a helping hand, even the women trod the clay with their feet. The men worked with breast and arms bare, the most distinguished wearing a little cap with a button. Even in very early times, women kept the head covered.

    The building so increased in bulk and height that, on account of the shade it cast, it was quite cold on one side, while on the other the reflection of the sun's rays made it very hot. For thirty years, the work went on. They were at the second story. They had already encircled and walled in the interior with towerlike columns, had already recorded their names and races thereon in colored stones when the confusion broke forth. I saw one sent by God, Melchisedech, going around among the leaders and the masters of the building. He called upon them to account for their conduct, and he announced to them the chastisement of God. And now began the confusion. Many who had up to this time worked on peaceably, now boasted their skill and the great services they had rendered in the undertaking. They formed parties, they laid claim to certain privileges. This occasioned contradictions, animosities, and rebellion. There were at first only two tribes among the disaffected and these, it was resolved, should be put down; but soon it was discovered that disunion existed among all. They struggled among themselves, they slew one another, they could no longer make themselves understood by one another, and so at last they separated and scattered over the whole earth. I saw Sem's race going farther southward where later on was Abraham's home. I saw one of Sem's race. He was a good man, but he did not follow his leader. On account of his wife, he preferred staying among the wicked ones of Babel. He became the leader of the Samanenses, a race that always held themselves aloof from others. Under the cruel Semiramis, Melchisedech transplanted them to Palestine.

    When in my childhood I had the vision of the building of the Tower, I used to reject it because I could not understand it. I had, of course, seen nothing like it, no buildings but our farmhouses whence the cows go out by the chimney (that is, where the door serves as an egress for the smoke, as well as for the cows), and the city of Coesfeld. More than once I thought it must be Heaven. But I had the vision again and again, and always in the same way I see it still, and I have also seen how it looked in Job's time.

    One of the chief leaders in the Tower building was Nemrod. He was afterward honored as a deity under the name of Belus. He was the founder of the race that honored Derketo and Semiramis as goddesses. He built Babylon out of the stones of the Tower, and Semiramis greatly embellished it. He also laid the foundation of Ninive, and built substructures of stones for tent dwellings. He was a great hunter and tyrant. At that period savage animals were very numerous, and they committed fearful ravages. The hunting expeditions fitted out against them were as grand as military expeditions. They who slew these wild animals, were honored as gods. Nemrod also drove men together and subdued them. He practiced idolatry, he was full of cruelty and witchcraft, and he had many descendants. He lived to be about two hundred and seventy years old. He was of sallow complexion, and from early youth he had led a wild life. He was an instrument of Satan and very much given to star worship. Of the numerous figures and pictures that he traced in the planets and constellations, and according to which he prophesied concerning the different nations and countries, he sought to reproduce representations, which he set up as gods. The Egyptians owe their Sphinx to him, as also their many-armed and many-headed idols. For seventy years, Nemrod busied himself with the histories of these idols, with ceremonial details relative to their worship and the sacrifices to be offered them, also with the forming of the pagan priesthood. By his diabolical wisdom and power, he had subjected the races that he led to the building of the Tower. When the confusion of tongues arose, many of those tribes broke away from him, and the wildest of them followed Mesraim into Egypt. Nemrod built Babylon, subjected the country around, and laid the foundation of the Babylonian Empire. Among his numerous children were Ninus and Derketo. The last-mentioned was honored as a goddess.

    8. Derketo

    From Derketo to Semiramis, I saw three generations of daughters. Derketo was a tall, powerful woman. I saw her clothed in skins with numerous straps and animals' tails hanging about her. Her head was covered by a cap made of the feathers of birds. I saw her with a great train of followers, male and female, sallying forth from the neighborhood of Babylon. She was constantly in vision, or engaged in prophesying, offering sacrifice, founding cities, or roving about. She and her followers drove before them scattered tribes with their herds, prophesied on the subject of good dwelling places, piled up stones some of which were immense, offered sacrifice, and practiced all kinds of wickedness. She drew all to herself. She was sometimes here, sometimes there. She was everywhere honored. She had in her old age a daughter, who played a part similar to her own. I saw this vision in a plain, by which was signified the origin of the abomination. Lastly, I saw Derketo as a frightful old woman in a city by the sea. She was again carrying on her sorcery by the seashore. She was in a state of diabolical ecstasy, and she was proclaiming to her people that she must die for them, give her life for them. She told them that she could remain with them no longer, but that she would be transformed into a fish and as such be always near them. She gave directions for the worship to be paid her and, in presence of the assembled multitude, plunged into the sea. Soon after a fish arose above the waves, and the people saluted it with sacrifices and abominations of all kinds. Their divinations were full of mysteries, signs, etc. connected with water. Through Derketo's instrumentality, an entire system of idolatry arose.

    After Derketo, I saw another woman, the daughter of Derketo. She appeared to me on a low mountain, which signified that her position was more powerful than that of her mother. This was still in Nemrod's time, for they belonged to the same age. I saw this daughter leading a life even wilder and more violent than her mother's had been. She was engaged most of her time in hunting, attended by crowds of followers. She often went to a distance of three hundred miles, pursued wild animals, offered sacrifice, practiced witchcraft, and prophesied. In this way numerous places were founded and idolatrous worship established. I saw this woman fall into the sea while struggling with a hippopotamus.

    Her daughter Semiramis I saw upon a lofty mountain surrounded by all the kingdoms and treasures of the world, as if Satan were showing them to her, giving them to her. I saw that Semiramis put the finishing touch to every abomination of the Babylonian race.

    In the earliest times power over others was held more peaceably and was vested in many; later on unlimited jurisdiction was possessed by single individuals. These latter then became the leaders, the gods of their followers, and they formulated various systems of idolatrous worship, each according to his own ideas. They could also perform wonders of skill, valor, and invention, for they were full of the spirit of darkness. Thence arose whole tribes, first rulers and priests combined, later of priests alone. I have seen that, in those days, women of this stamp were more numerous than men. They were all in interior communication, connected with one another by feelings, thoughts, and influence. Many things narrated of them are imperfect recitals of their ecstatic, or mesmeric expressions relative to themselves, their origin, their doings uttered sometimes by themselves, at others by their devilish clairvoyants. The Jєωs also had many secret arts in Egypt. But Moses, the seer of God, rooted them out. Among the rabbis, however, many such things existed as points of learning. Later on these secret arts became low, vulgar practices among wandering tribes, and they still exist in witchcraft and superstition. But they have all sprung from the same tree of corruption, from the same low kingdom of darkness. I see the visions of all that engage in such practices either just above or entirely under the earth. There is an element of the same in [animal] magnetism [known today as hypnotism].

    Water was held specially sacred by those early idolaters. It entered into all their service. Whether divinations or ecstasies, they always began by gazing into water. They had ponds consecrated to that purpose. After some time, their ecstatic state became habitual, and even without the aid of water they had their evil visions. I have seen the way in which they had those visions and it was indeed singular. The whole earth with all that it contains seemed to be once more under water, but veiled as in a dark sphere. Tree stood under tree, mountain under mountain, water under water. I saw that those enchantresses beheld all that was going on: wars, nations, perils, etc., just as is done at the present day, only with this difference that the former put what they saw into effect, made good what they saw. Here was a nation to be subdued, here one to be taken by surprise, there a city to be built. Here were famous men and women, and there was the plan by which they might be outwitted; in fine, every item of their diabolical worship was seen before reduced to practice by those females. Derketo saw in vision that she should cast herself into the sea and be transformed into a fish, and what she saw, she hesitated not to carry into effect. Even the abominations practiced in their worship, were all mirrored in the water before they put them into execution.

    In the age in which Derketo's daughter lived, dykes and roads began to be constructed. She raided down into Egypt itself. Her whole life was one series of movings and hunting expeditions. Her adherents belonged to the tribe that had plundered Job in Arabia. The diabolical worship of Derketo's people became systematized first in Egypt. Here it took such hold that, while the witches sat in the temples and in chambers on strange-looking seats before various kinds of mirrors, their visions, communicated while actually seen, were reported by the priests to hundreds of men who engraved them upon the stone walls of caverns.

    Strange that I should see all those abominable chief instruments of darkness always in unconscious communion with one another! I saw similar actions and things going on in different places among similar instruments of the evil one. The only difference among them was that which arose from the diversity of manners and customs among the several nations and the different degrees of depravity into which they had fallen. Some had not as yet sunk so deep in these abominations, and were not so far removed from the truth; those, for instance, from whom the family of Abraham and the races of Job and the Three Kings sprang, as also the star worshippers of Chaldea, and they that had the Shining Star (Zoroaster).

    When Jesus Christ came upon earth, when the earth was soaked with His Blood, the fierce influence of such practices was considerably diminished, and witchcraft lost much of its power. Moses was a seer from his cradle, but he was according to God and he always practiced what he saw.

    Derketo, her daughter, and her granddaughter Semiramis lived to be very old, according to the general age of that time. They were tall, powerful, mighty, such as would almost frighten us in our day. They were inconceivably bold, fierce, shameless, and they carried out with astonishing assurance whatever the evil one had shown them in vision. They felt their own power, they thought themselves divinities; they were facsimiles of those furious sorcerers on the high mountain that perished in the Deluge.

    It is touching to see how the holy patriarchs, although they had frequent revelations from God, had nevertheless to suffer and to struggle unremittingly in order to keep clear of the abominations that surrounded them. And again, it is affecting to remember in what secret, what painful ways salvation at last came upon the earth, while all went well with demonolatry, while all things were made to subserve its interests.
    [...]

    9. Semiramis
    10. Melchisedech
    11. Job
    12. Abraham
    [...]
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Trinity

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3233
    • Reputation: +189/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #12 on: February 12, 2007, 10:33:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • To get back to the subject of this thread, which is full truth or partial.  Correct me if I'm wrong there.  

    I don't believe that anyone has the full truth.  The Church does, yes, but it is infinite in the person of the Holy Spirit.  We are finite and incapable of holding the whole body of truth.  Even if we didn't shelter any error, I don't think we could digest all the truth in our lifetime.  And these days a great deal of time has to be spent sorting the true from the false, no easy task as words change meaning and spin is a highly developed art.  

    That's why our premise has to be sound to begin with, and we must check it periodically to see if it still holds water.  It is a very great blessing to have the teachings of the Church as our foundation.  But even in the teachings there are higher and lower priorities, so it is very possible to get those mixed up or to know about one thing and not the other.  So being a member of the Catholic Faith is not a guarantee that we won't err.  

    For those that don't even have the springboard of the Faith, it is a foregone conclusion.  But we go to those who have good qualifications in the fields in which we are interested.  I wouldn't go to a priest for advice on how to build a house, nor to an architect for spiritual advice.  The secret to gaining the right knowledge for job at hand is knowing who to ask and what questions to ask.  The pursuit of wisdom, however, is always in season.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline Carolus Magnus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 186
    • Reputation: +10/-0
    • Gender: Male
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 04:18:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Church posesses the complete revealed truth, that is all the parts of the truth which God has made known to man in order that he may be saved.
    adstiterunt reges terrae et principes convenerunt in unum adversus Dominum et adversus Christum eius diapsalma disrumpamus vincula eorum et proiciamus a nobis iugum ipsorum

    Offline Trinity

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3233
    • Reputation: +189/-0
    • Gender: Female
    The Catholic religion vs. having some truths
    « Reply #14 on: February 12, 2007, 06:24:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • True.  I thought of that, but decided not to digress.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.