Author Topic: The apparition at Knock Ireland (Read 1424 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2023, 06:07:50 PM »

Quote from: Yeti on March 22, 2023, 05:56:48 PM

What it did not approve, and in fact condemned, is the text that Melanie claimed to have been the secret she received from Our Lady.

I suspect that the reason it was condemned was due to the content of the message that was easy to misinterpret.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist." That's a bit difficult to swallow, especially given the Prot attacks on the Church. Heckd, if someone had told me about Vatican II 100 years ago, I would have condemned that as well

Meg · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2023, 06:12:37 PM »

There are some secrets that the Vatican doesn't allow us to see at all, such as the third secret of Fatima. There was, and still is, controversy around Sr. Lucia in regards to the third secret.

cassini · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2023, 08:04:02 AM »

Quote from: Yeti on March 22, 2023, 05:56:48 PM

.

The apparition itself was approved and enjoyed miracles, this is true. The Church also built a cathedral on the site of the apparition. The Church approved of all of this.

What it did not approve, and in fact condemned, is the text that Melanie claimed to have been the secret she received from Our Lady.

I agree the case is unusual inasmuch as the Church acknowledges that Our Lady did appear, while at the same time rejecting something the seer came out with 30 years later, but these are historical facts.

The Church is the ultimate arbiter of private revelations; we must accept her judgment on what she says. If the Church says that Our Lady appeared at La Salette, but that a text published 30 years later by one of the seers is false, not doctrinally sound and must be rejected, even placing it on the Index of Forbidden Books, then we must accept that as well. Solange Hertz has no right to go against the judgment of the Holy Office or to promote anything on the Index of Forbidden Books.

I agree with Ladislaus above. Consider this. If you were THE CHURCH of 1846, a pope, cardinal, bishop or priest and you were told 'Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the anti-christ and the clergy will be corrupted etc,' wouldn't you disbelieve and question such a message.

But we are now living at a time when all these predictions have come true, so can now say the seers were not giving a false account.

While looking up some more info on the story I came across;

https://digilander.libero.it/monast/appari/inglese/salette.htm

In it I read;

I have given six days to work, I have reserved the seventh and you do not want to admit. Is that weighs both the arm of my Son, if the crop fails, the fault is yours. There I showed last year with the potatoes, but you have not noticed. Indeed when you find fault, they cursed the name of my Son. They will continue to rot and this year, at Christmas, there will be no more....(the lady then went on to predict another famine that would happen:
......., children under seven years will be hit with trembling and die in the arms of those who hold them. Others will do penance by the famine.

The 'last year' referred to by Our Lady was 1845 the beginning of the great famine in Ireland (1845-1852) with 1 million deaths. As I wrote in my opening post, Knock in Ireland occurred when Our Lady of La Salette's statue was being crowned by the Bishop of Paris. In Ireland Knock is portrayed as Our Lady telling the Irish how good they were at the time. Indeed, it seems she was reminding the Irish at Knock why the potato crop failed while predicting the Irish would lose the faith like no other country as has happened here in Ireland. 98% of the Irish government are pro-abortionists, one of the worst sins against God.

Finally, note all the famines world-wide in our anti-Catholic world are all put down to CLIMATE-CHANGE. My but the Devil is clever..

2Vermont · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2023, 08:14:26 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 22, 2023, 06:07:50 PM

I suspect that the reason it was condemned was due to the content of the message that was easy to misinterpret.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist." That's a bit difficult to swallow, especially given the Prot attacks on the Church. Heckd, if someone had told me about Vatican II 100 years ago, I would have condemned that as well

It's at least blasphemous in those times. And to think Our Lady would say such a thing. But, in the end, it was true.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2023, 11:23:40 AM »

What is the meaning of the black "line" separating St. Joseph from the rest of the vision?

Cera · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2023, 04:56:45 PM »

Quote from: Yeti on March 22, 2023, 05:56:48 PM

Solange Hertz has no right to go against the judgment of the Holy Office or to promote anything on the Index of Forbidden Books.

Solange Hertz had every right to speak the truth. The Index of Forbidden Books was abolished on 14 June 1966 by Pope Paul VI.

cassini · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2023, 05:10:27 AM »

Quote from: TheRealMcCoy on March 23, 2023, 11:23:40 AM

What is the meaning of the black "line" separating St. Joseph from the rest of the vision?

“I am Patrick Hill; I live in Claremorris; my aunt lives at Knock; I remember the 21st
August last; on that day I was drawing home turf, or peat, from the bog on an ass.

'I saw St. Joseph to the Blessed Virgin’s right hand; his head was bent, from the
shoulders, forward; he appeared to be paying his respects; I noticed his whiskers; they
appeared slightly grey; there was a line or dark mearing between the figure of the
Blessed Virgin and the spot where he stood. I saw the feet of St. Joseph, too. His hands
were joined like a person at prayer.'

Very hard question to answer McCoy,

At Knock Joseph seems to be contemplating Mary who before her Fiat was his betrothed and afterwards the Spouse of the Holy Ghost.

cassini · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2023, 05:23:01 AM »

Quote from: Cera on March 23, 2023, 04:56:45 PM

Solange Hertz had every right to speak the truth. The Index of Forbidden Books was abolished on 14 June 1966 by Pope Paul VI.

I agree. In 1820, the Holy Office did a U-turn on its own decrees of 1616 and judgement of 1633.

For example, in Denzinger’s The Sources of Catholic Dogma (400-1950) there are 35 decrees issued by the same Holy Office from 1602 to 1949 recorded in detail. The only one that included formal heresy, the 1616 decree, is no longer recorded or mentioned among them.

Yeti · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2023, 01:38:17 PM »

Quote from: Cera on March 23, 2023, 04:56:45 PM

Solange Hertz had every right to speak the truth. The Index of Forbidden Books was abolished on 14 June 1966 by Pope Paul VI.

.

Everyone has the right to speak the truth, but a Catholic accepts the judgment of the Church as the truth, not their own opinions.

"If he will not listen to the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and an infidel." -- Jesus Christ

And you are quoting Paul VI as an authority against a judgment issued under Pope Leo XIII (or it might have been Pius IX)? Are you serious?!

Yeti · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2023, 01:42:22 PM »

Quote from: cassini on March 24, 2023, 05:23:01 AM

I agree. In 1820, the Holy Office did a U-turn on its own decrees of 1616 and judgement of 1633.

For example, in Denzinger’s The Sources of Catholic Dogma (400-1950) there are 35 decrees issued by the same Holy Office from 1602 to 1949 recorded in detail. The only one that included formal heresy, the 1616 decree, is no longer recorded or mentioned among them.

.

The Holy Office issued a heretical decree in 1616? I highly doubt this.

In any case, it is only the Holy Office that would have the right to retract one of its judgments. That certainly doesn't give anyone else the right to reject a judgment of the Holy Office on the grounds that they disagree with it. We must accept decrees of the Holy Office, since they come from the authority of the Church.

"If he will not listen to the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and an infidel." -- Jesus Christ

cassini · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:18:57 PM »

Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2023, 01:42:22 PM

.

The Holy Office issued a heretical decree in 1616? I highly doubt this.

In any case, it is only the Holy Office that would have the right to retract one of its judgments. That certainly doesn't give anyone else the right to reject a judgment of the Holy Office on the grounds that they disagree with it. We must accept decrees of the Holy Office, since they come from the authority of the Church.

"If he will not listen to the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and an infidel." -- Jesus Christ

'The Holy Office issued a heretical decree in 1616? I highly doubt this.'

(1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical [denial of a revelation by God] inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by the Fathers and theologians.”

When did the Holy Office retract the above decree Yeti? In fact it never did, just tried to change the decree so that they could have their decree and their heresy.

Cera · « **Reply #26 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:28:31 PM »

Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2023, 01:42:22 PM

"If he will not listen to the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and an infidel." -- Jesus Christ

If "Pope" Francis leads the "church" into worshiping Pachamama would you do so? Or would you be loyal to the Church?

Our Lady warned that a time of "diabolical disorientation" would arrive and here we are.

Understading that Papal encylicals in the late 1800s warned against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and the heresy of Modernism, it is not surprising that church hierarchy were motivated to cover up the words of Our Lady that "Rome will become the seat of the anti-christ."

Yeti · « **Reply #27 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:33:36 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 22, 2023, 06:07:50 PM

I suspect that the reason it was condemned was due to the content of the message that was easy to misinterpret.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist." That's a bit difficult to swallow, especially given the Prot attacks on the Church. Heckd, if someone had told me about Vatican II 100 years ago, I would have condemned that as well

.

There's no proof Our Lady said those words to Melanie at all. On the contrary, the Holy Office said that this new text Melanie published was not authentic. The Holy Office was the only group of people that had access to the real text, since it was a private message to the pope. They compared the real text with the one Melanie wrote later, and this is what they said:

Quote

Notification of the Consultors and Decree of the Holy Office, Monday 26 July, and Tuesday 3 August, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p. 272-273)
2^nd Feria, July 26, 1880
The Lords Consultors advised as follows: That it be written now to the Archbishops of the Gauls (France) and of Italia under the Holy Office’s secret ad mentem: The thought [of the Holy Office] is that the revelations of Mélanie, printed and distributed everywhere, cannot be considered authentic or doctrinally sound; that therefore, without any prejudice to the cult given to the Blessed Virgin under the title of La Salette, they [the archbishops] don’t approve of them in any way whatsoever, and moreover that they ensure the said revelations won’t get printed and spread over their dioceses and the dioceses of their suffragans, but let them even carefully remove these wherever they have already been spread.
As to the booklet disclosed by the press, four [of the consultors] advised that it be prohibited by a Decree of the 4^th feria. But also, that the decree remains under the secrecy of the Holy Office, for it to be published only if and only when the Most Eminent Fathers will consider it useful and appropriate.

Not authentic means that it is not the true text of what Our Lady said. Obviously the Holy Office would never condemn the words of Our Lady in an apparition that was approved by the Church. So all we know is that what Melanie published 1) is not what Our Lady told her, 2) is not doctrinally sound, and 3) is condemned by the Church.

I think a lot of the defense people give to this text comes from several errors: that a seer of Our Lady can't publish something wrong or that is worthy of condemnation, and possibly enjoys some sort of pseudo-infallibility, and that the message that was published was actually the true words of Our Lady, which the Church tells us they are not. People also think that because they were apparently fulfilled in the current situation in the Church, that this proves they are true. It is highly debatable whether these statements have been fulfilled today, but in any case it is the Church that is the judge of private apparitions and revelations, and we must accept the judgment of the Church if it tells us something is not a message from heaven.

Cera · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:53:02 PM »

Quote

At La Salette, Our Lady warned us: “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.” It will not be the Holy Church, indefectible by the promises of Christ, that will lose the Faith: it will be the sect that occupies the See of Most Blessed Peter and which today we see propagating the anti-gospel of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

I note that in 2003 the same Pontifical Council for Culture condemned yoga meditation and, more generally, New Age thought as being incompatible with the Catholic faith. According to the Vatican docuмent, New Age thought “shares with a number of internationally influential groups the goal of superseding or transcending particular religions in order to create space for a universal religion which could unite humanity. Closely related to this is a very concerted effort on the part of many institutions to invent a Global Ethic, an ethical framework which would reflect the global nature of contemporary culture, economics and politics. Further, the politicization of ecological questions certainly colors the whole question of the Gaia hypothesis or worship of mother earth” (2.5).
It goes without saying that the pagan ceremonies with which Saint Peter’s Basilica was profaned in honor of the pachamama idol fit perfectly into that “politicization of ecological questions” denounced by the 2003 Vatican docuмent, and which today is instead promoted sine glossa by the so-called Bergoglian magisterium, beginning with Laudato Sì and Fratelli Tutti.
At La Salette, Our Lady warned us: “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.” It will not be the Holy Church, indefectible by the promises of Christ, that will lose the Faith: it will be the sect that occupies the See of Most Blessed Peter and which today we see propagating the anti-gospel of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr. It is no longer possible to remain silent, because today our silence would make us accomplices of the enemies of God and of the human race. Millions of faithful are disgusted by the countless scandals of the Pastors, by the betrayal of their mission, by the desertion of those who by Holy Orders are called to bear witness to the Holy Gospel and not to support the establishment of the kingdom of the Antichrist.
I beg my Brothers in the Episcopate, priests, religious, and in a particular way the faithful laity who see themselves being betrayed by the Hierarchy, to raise their voices so as to express with a spirit of true obedience to Our Lord, Head of the Mystical Body, a firm and courageous denunciation of this apostasy and its authors. I invite everyone to pray that the Divine Majesty may be moved to compassion and intervene in our aid. May the Most Holy Virgin, terribilis ut castrorum acies ordinata, intercede before the Throne of God, compensating with Her merits for the unworthiness of Her children who invoke Her with the glorious title of Auxilium Christianorum.
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop
20 April 2021
Feria Tertia infra Hebdomadam II
post Octavam Paschae

https://www.remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/5362-declaration-of-archbishop-carlo-maria-vigano-with-regard-to-the-fifth-international-vatican-conference

Author Topic: The apparition at Knock Ireland (Read 1424 times)

Ladislaus

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Meg

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

cassini

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

2Vermont

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

TheRealMcCoy

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Cera

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

cassini

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

cassini

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Yeti

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Yeti

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

cassini

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Cera

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Yeti

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland

Cera

Re: The apparition at Knock Ireland