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Author Topic: The American concept of human races  (Read 2742 times)

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Offline Giovanni Berto

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The American concept of human races
« on: June 19, 2023, 12:29:13 PM »
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    • As a Brazilian, understanding how Americans classify people into races can be quite confusing.

    As far as I know, the whole human races idea came up sometime during the XVIII century, and it sounds rather problematic and unscientific to me.

    I mean, classifying people by nationality make a lot of sense, but dividing them into races seems rather random sometimes.

    I am not agains the concept per se, and I understand it can be useful, I just find it hard to make sense out of it when I read some threads.

    For instance: Spanish people are not white, right? They are Hispanic. What about the Portuguese?

    Another one: Northern Italians are surely white, aren't they? What about Southern Italians?

    I could probably come up with a few more of these examples.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #1 on: June 19, 2023, 12:39:54 PM »
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    • "Americans" were not the ones who came up with this. Rather it was the Cultural Marxists using their divide-and-conquer technique.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #2 on: June 19, 2023, 01:01:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on June 19, 2023, 12:39:54 PM
    "Americans" were not the ones who came up with this. Rather it was the Cultural Marxists using their divide-and-conquer technique.
    Surely not. It came up in Europe.

    The thing is that race in America is different from race in Brazil, for instance.

    It seems to me that race is more of a cultural thing, and this is why I find it kind of funny.
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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #3 on: June 19, 2023, 02:41:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on June 19, 2023, 12:29:13 PM
    I mean, classifying people by nationality make a lot of sense, but dividing them into races seems rather random sometimes.
    There's a writer who goes by "Thuletide" on the Right who likes to delve into this topic, and the following link is a good start:

    https://thuletide.wordpress.com/2021/01/02/pancake-fallacy-all-races-are-mixed-therefore-race-does-not-exist/
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    Offline Drolo

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #4 on: June 19, 2023, 02:43:40 PM »
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    • What race is she?



    And he?



    Both are spanish.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #5 on: June 19, 2023, 04:51:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Drolo on June 19, 2023, 02:43:40 PM
    What race is she?



    And he?



    Both are spanish.

    I think we would be expected to say that she is white, while he is hispanic. To me they are both white.

    Quote from: dxcat40 on June 19, 2023, 02:41:48 PM

    There's a writer who goes by "Thuletide" on the Right who likes to delve into this topic, and the following link is a good start:

    https://thuletide.wordpress.com/2021/01/02/pancake-fallacy-all-races-are-mixed-therefore-race-does-not-exist/

    Interesting. Thank you.

    The content on this link suggests that the Spanish are white just as the rest of Europeans. 

    Actually, this is one of the most curious aspects of the "American racial system", that people who are of Spanish descent are not white.

    Look at this curious quote: 
    Quote
    About Hispanic Origin

    The U.S. Office of Management and Budget... defines "Hispanic or Latino" as a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."

    source: https://www.census.gov/topics/population/hispanic-origin/about.html#:~:text=About%20Hispanic%20Origin&text=OMB%20defines%20%22Hispanic%20or%20Latino,or%20origin%20regardless%20of%20race.

    So this is a cultural and not a racial aspect? :confused:

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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2023, 04:54:47 PM »
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    • Further reading from the same link:


    Quote
    ...race and Hispanic origin (also known as ethnicity) are two separate and distinct concepts. These standards generally reflect a social definition of race and ethnicity recognized in this country, and they do not conform to any biological, anthropological, or genetic criteria. 

    ...Persons who report themselves as Hispanic can be of any race and are identified as such in our data tables.


    So there you have it. It really doesn't make sense, it is just something that was made up.
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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #7 on: June 19, 2023, 05:54:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on June 19, 2023, 04:54:47 PM
    So there you have it. It really doesn't make sense, it is just something that was made up.

    I believe that is referring to the term "Hispanic" and not the concept of races.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #8 on: June 19, 2023, 06:04:22 PM »
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    • We are one race of brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.  

    God is king of the Universe. 
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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #9 on: June 19, 2023, 06:58:19 PM »
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    • @Viva Cristo Rey
    Even in the supernatural order we are not equal in merit. The natural order is much more imperfect than that perfect inequality. Races exist and have even been recognized by the Church. Race is an issue today because Marxists have weaponized it against the race that brought the truth to the rest of the world.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #10 on: June 19, 2023, 07:59:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on June 19, 2023, 12:29:13 PM

    I am not against the concept per se, and I understand it can be useful, I just find it hard to make sense out of it when I read some threads.

    For instance: Spanish people are not white, right? They are Hispanic. What about the Portuguese?

    Another one: Northern Italians are surely white, aren't they? What about Southern Italians?

    I could probably come up with a few more of these examples.
    Hispania, in Roman times, region comprising the Iberian Peninsula, now occupied by Portugal and Spain. The origins of the name are disputed.
    https://www.britannica.com/place/Hispania-ancient-region-Iberian-Peninsula

    So in that sense both the Spanish and the Portuguese are Hispanic.

    To me Spanish are white and so are the Portuguese, although the Spanish mixed with the Arabs, who also are white with a swarthy complection.

    Northern Italians originate from Germanic stock in the west and in the east from the Veneti or Slavs. In fact they still speak the Veneti dialect. The northern Italians tend to despise the Southerners, who have been influenced by the Arabs. yet they are all white.

    I too find it hard to make sense out of it when I read some threads. I think it's got a lot to do with the U.S. history of making war against Mexico. 
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #11 on: June 19, 2023, 08:13:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Drolo on June 19, 2023, 02:43:40 PM
    What race is she?



    And he?



    Both are spanish.
    She has fake dyed hair and is wearing a lot of makeup. Plus it's unknown if she's had any 'work' done to her. So it's not a good comparison.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #12 on: June 19, 2023, 08:38:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on June 19, 2023, 07:59:15 PM
    Hispania, in Roman times, region comprising the Iberian Peninsula, now occupied by Portugal and Spain. The origins of the name are disputed.
    https://www.britannica.com/place/Hispania-ancient-region-Iberian-Peninsula

    So in that sense both the Spanish and the Portuguese are Hispanic.

    To me Spanish are white and so are the Portuguese, although the Spanish mixed with the Arabs, who also are white with a swarthy complection.

    Northern Italians originate from Germanic stock in the west and in the east from the Veneti or Slavs. In fact they still speak the Veneti dialect. The northern Italians tend to despise the Southerners, who have been influenced by the Arabs. yet they are all white.

    I too find it hard to make sense out of it when I read some threads. I think it's got a lot to do with the U.S. history of making war against Mexico.

    Interesting. I didn't know about the ancient region of Hispania.

    I understand that the USA was primarily built by British people, mainly English. So, it is understandable that they wanted to differentiate the people who were the original Americans from the ones that came later. 

    The USA has always been a "white" and Protestant country. Other people with other cultures are kind of outsiders, because they don't share these traits. So, it is makes sense that they created an especial category of white people to refer to those who speak Spanish and are historically Catholic. 


    Quote from: dxcat40 on June 19, 2023, 05:54:48 PM

    I believe that is referring to the term "Hispanic" and not the concept of races.

    Yes, that's also my understanding.

    I do believe that races exist and we can see with some clarity what are the strenghts and weakenesses of each one, but I believe that culture and nationality play a bigger part, especially in places that have been relatively isolated like most European countries before the XX century or so.

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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #13 on: June 19, 2023, 09:30:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on June 19, 2023, 08:38:50 PM
    I do believe that races exist and we can see with some clarity what are the strenghts and weakenesses of each one, but I believe that culture and nationality play a bigger part, especially in places that have been relatively isolated like most European countries before the XX century or so.
    If we consider culture to be downstream from race, I think it makes more sense than the opposite. We find greater compatibility among certain races than with others. Southern Europeans have a harder time with the cultures of Northern Europeans, but Middle Easterners (perhaps sans purer Iranians) and other Asiatics have little to do with either. Wherever people go, their preferences are asserted and it has a lot to do with genetic predispositions.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The American concept of human races
    « Reply #14 on: June 19, 2023, 10:14:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: dxcat40 on June 19, 2023, 02:41:48 PM
    There's a writer who goes by "Thuletide" on the Right who likes to delve into this topic, and the following link is a good start:

    https://thuletide.wordpress.com/2021/01/02/pancake-fallacy-all-races-are-mixed-therefore-race-does-not-exist/
    https://thuletide.wordpress.com/2020/06/29/a-race-by-race-breakdown-of-human-genetic-diversity-illustrated-guide-for-novices/

    I really like the graphics in this article.

    Note a lot of information relies on evolution nonsense so I can't say how true some stuff is. Maybe things are correct but the reasoning is wrong (i.e not evolution).
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