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Author Topic: Thanksgiving indult  (Read 840 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Thanksgiving indult
« on: November 25, 2022, 10:05:19 AM »
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    • TIL Pope Pius XII gave Catholics an indult to eat that leftover turkey today. Gobble gobble :clown:


    https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/abstinence-friday-after-thanksgiving


    Quote
    Despite this, many Catholics continue to piously observe the older rules by abstaining from meat on all Fridays (except exempted major holy days). Those looking to follow the traditional rules can take comfort in knowing that Pope Pius XII granted the so-called “Turkey Indult” in the 1950s, allowing Catholics to freely consume their leftovers on Friday. Contrary to some speculation, this indult was not given due to poor refrigeration techniques, but rather Pius XII’s fatherly recognition that the Thanksgiving holiday is centered on a tasty bird. As such, traditional Catholics may consume their leftover turkey and other meats on Friday with a clear conscience knowing that they do so with Pius XII’s blessing.

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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #1 on: November 25, 2022, 10:56:55 AM »
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    • Americain response:

    "Turkey indult?  Alright!  Let's cook some steaks!"
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    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #2 on: November 25, 2022, 11:00:55 AM »
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    • There was an old thread about this where research seems to show that this indult may not have happened until after Pius XII.  However, when your priest announces to the whole parish that there is an indult the coming Friday [and the traditional calendars support it], it makes it difficult to say otherwise. I still have to wonder how ALL traditional clergy could be wrong about this. 
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #3 on: November 25, 2022, 07:53:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: de Lugo on November 25, 2022, 10:56:55 AM
    Americain response:

    "Turkey indult?  Alright!  Let's cook some steaks!"

    Pius XII in heaven be like "surprised Pikachu face."
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    One day at a time.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #4 on: November 25, 2022, 08:22:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on November 25, 2022, 10:05:19 AM
    TIL Pope Pius XII gave Catholics an indult to eat that leftover turkey today. Gobble gobble :clown:


    https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/abstinence-friday-after-thanksgiving
    There was a 5-year expiration on that indult, wasn't there?

    If so, and in the absence of any legitimate authority to renew it, there can no longer be the indult, right?

    Today is a corn, shrimp, and cheese chowder with sourdough day at our home.
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #5 on: November 25, 2022, 08:31:24 PM »
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #6 on: November 25, 2022, 08:34:21 PM »
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    • I'm hearing conflicting reports regarding this all over the place, SSPX and CMRI say its okay; but online trad personalities say it isn't. Either way, I had some turkey (and only turkey, no other meat!) and praise be to God for it
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Nadir

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #7 on: November 25, 2022, 08:47:35 PM »
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    • This is one dilemma I will never have to resolve. ;)
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #8 on: November 25, 2022, 08:55:01 PM »
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    • There's no dilemma:  Lex dubia non obligat.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #9 on: November 25, 2022, 09:00:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: de Lugo on November 25, 2022, 10:56:55 AM
    Americain response:

    "Turkey indult?  Alright!  Let's cook some steaks!"

    ... sigh.  It's not a Turkey Indult, nor was it granted so people could eat leftover turkey due to "lack of refrigeration", or other myths.  It was because it's a festive holiday weekend that American spend time with family.  Church has often dispensed from days of fast and abstinence for a variety of reasons.  Even local ordinaries, nay, even pastors of parishes, can and have dispensed, e.g. if St. Patrick's Day fell on a Friday in an Irish area.  Nobody is forcing anyone to eat meat, and I didn't today, but there's no reason for those who don't to act superior.  You'd be better off eating 10 pounds of steak than abstaining and then acting like you're better than someone else who decided not to.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 09:13:05 PM »
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    • HERE'S A BLAND FACT: Psychological projection is not an accurate gauge of anyone's interior forum.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #11 on: November 25, 2022, 10:17:37 PM »
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    • Another take, supporting lifting of the Friday abstinence

    turkeyday

    Citing Canon 25-30:

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    Canon 25 (1983 CIC 23)
    Custom in the Church obtains the force of law only by the consent of the competent ecclesiastical Superior.
    Canon 26 (1983 CIC 25)
    A community that is capable at least of receiving an ecclesiastical law can introduce a custom that could obtain the force of law
    Canon 27 (1983 CIC 26)
    § 1. No custom can derogate from divine law, whether natural or positive; neither can it prejudice ecclesiastical law, unless the custom was reasonable and has been observed for forty continuous and complete years; but against an ecclesiastical law that contains a clause prohibiting future customs, only a reasonable custom can be prescriptive if it is centenary or immemorial.
    § 2. A custom that is expressly reprobated in law is not reasonable.
    Canon 28 (1983 CIC 28)
    A custom beyond the law, if it has been knowingly observed by a community with the intention of obliging itself, leads to law, if the custom was equally reasonable and legitimately observed for forty continuous and complete years.
    Canon 29 (1983 CIC 27)
    Custom is the best interpreter of laws.
    Canon 30 (1983 CIC 28)
    While observing Canon 5, custom against the law or beyond the law is revoked by a contrary
    custom or law; but, unless express mention of them is made, a law does not revoke centenary or
    immemorial customs, nor does a general law [revoke] particular customs.

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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #12 on: November 25, 2022, 10:37:09 PM »
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    • A sede bishop cited the Novus Ordo "Code" for authority??? What the…?
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #13 on: November 25, 2022, 11:18:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on November 25, 2022, 10:37:09 PM
    A sede bishop cited the Novus Ordo "Code" for authority??? What the…?
    No, this simply looks to be a source of canons from from the 1917 Code that happens to cross reference to the corresponding canons in the 1983 Code.
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    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Thanksgiving indult
    « Reply #14 on: November 25, 2022, 11:19:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on November 25, 2022, 10:37:09 PM
    A sede bishop cited the Novus Ordo "Code" for authority??? What the…?

    1983 citations are "cross-references" between the 1917 code and the 1983.  You'll notice the different Canon numbers.
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