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Offline ThatBritPapist

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Re: TFP Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2025, 09:42:55 PM »
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  • I also want to add on unrelated to Bishop Mayers distrust is that the cultish behavior and anti-traditionalism that had taken root within certain factions of traditionalist circles did not remain confined to South America but extended into America as well.

     A clear demonstration of this can be seen in 1983 when the Angelus Press authorized the John T. Armor case for publication in its magazines. This decision was made during the lifetime of both Bishop Antônio de Castro Mayer and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. (I have attached it as a file here)

    In addition the TFP did not align with the Traditon. The TFP never officially endorsed SSPX’s stance, particularly regarding its relationship with Rome. Following the 1988 episcopal consecrations by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the TFP officially disavowed the SSPX  aligning heavily endorsing the FSSP. This was particularly evident in America and South America, where TFP worked closely with FSSP priests.

    Matter of Fact Dr Plinio stated in the official TFP Newspaper [color=var(--color-progressive,#36c)]Catolicismo, junho de 1990[/color]
     
    The TFP has no ties with the movement of Bishop Lefebvre. It has not had any ties since he was excommunicated, but it had not had any for a long time before that either ," 

    https://www.pliniocorreadeoliveira.info/ENTREVISTAS%20-%201990-06%20-%20A%2030%20GIORNI.asp






     
    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #16 on: March 05, 2025, 09:49:07 PM »
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  • There was/is no "cultism of Plinio".  That and the other "shoddy behavior" largely consisted of slanders against them created by a splinter group known as "Heralds of the Gospel" that split off, took over most of TFP's organization and properties in Brazil, and then went completely off the reservation.  There's almost no original TFP left in Brazil as a result.  I'm well acquainted with the low-level details that are unknown to most.
    Did you not read anything I stated above. You stating there is no "Cultism of Plinio" when not acknowledging the video, the sempre viva ceremony or march, let alone the relilquaries and cult like personalities of having a large picture of of PCO or his Mother is not concerining at all (not even mentioning the slaves of Plinio). Second point aswell, the Heralds are the TFP, if you have any evidence that the Heralds are not the legal holders of the TFP in South America please provide that as I have clarified that already as Mons Cla's was the Protege of PCO.

    Further your point of the Heralds slandering the TFP creating the the cult lies wouldn't make sense when they are the ones with large pictures of PCO and his mother by his bedside like shown earlier (Image one as you can see has the Arautos/Heralds symbol) and the second image was from a friend is from a Heralds boarding school

    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #17 on: March 05, 2025, 10:00:10 PM »
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  • It is also interesting to note that the Monfort group, a splinter from the TFP led by Professor Orlando Fedeli, has the same kind of anti-clericalism. It seems that this man was so influent that he was practically the one who founded the IBP (Good Sheperd Institute) and, as long as he was alive, he ruled it behind the shadows.

    I also would like Ladislaus to share his "low-level details" with us and also his impressions about the video.

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #18 on: March 05, 2025, 10:07:12 PM »
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  • It is also interesting to note that the Monfort group, a splinter from the TFP led by Professor Orlando Fedeli, has the same kind of anti-clericalism. It seems that this man was so influent that he was practically the one who founded the IBP (Good Sheperd Institute) and, as long as he was alive, he ruled it behind the shadows.

    I also would like Ladislaus to share his "low-level details" with us and also his impressions about the video.
    To be fair never knew Professor Orlando Fedeli had that much power to yield the IBG ( I have been to brazil and while they are Indult they remind me of Tradtionalist SSPX Priests from a bygone era). I too wanted this thread to be a discussion about the criticism and rebuttals so I would want to know what Ladislaus feels about it
    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #19 on: March 05, 2025, 10:10:55 PM »
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  • Why a layman who need such images and devotions to his mother by his beside with other Plinio related periodicals. The proof is in the pudding when Monsignor Cla said "We must think about him [Plínio] all day long, we must always desire to mystically encounter him"

     

    Someone asked for a source for this quote so here it is:

    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #20 on: March 05, 2025, 10:18:12 PM »
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  • Someone asked for a source for this quote so here it is:



    Crazy stuff indeed. Just listen to the cheering crowd.

    Sometimes you don't know if he is talking about Our Lord or Dr. Plinio. It seems that they switched one for the other. 

    It is also worth of mention that this Mr. Cla Dias was accused of ugly crimes, including rape. The Vatican even made an intervention at the Heralds group. He died last November, I have just learned.

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #21 on: March 05, 2025, 10:24:24 PM »
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  • Crazy stuff indeed. Just listen to the cheering crowd.

    Sometimes you don't know if he is talking about Our Lord or Dr. Plinio. It seems that they switched one for the other.

    It is also worth of mention that this Mr. Cla Dias was accused of ugly crimes, including rape. The Vatican even made an intervention at the Heralds group. He died last November, I have just learned.
    Yeah it's pretty diabolical, it's been 30 years and numerous reports of children being turned against their parents (a tactic typical of cults) The reports also learned that they were trafficking children (they were removing minor children from the area where their families lived and removing them to far-away areas or different countries). Civil authorities in two nations condemned Heralds for cнιℓd тrαffιcking .

    I've linked two docuмents from the Vatican stating they should stop teaching and send minors back to families

    They are in Portuguese the PDFs but it would be good if someone who knew Portuguese proficiently could translate them



    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #22 on: March 05, 2025, 10:58:12 PM »
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  • Yeah it's pretty diabolical, it's been 30 years and numerous reports of children being turned against their parents (a tactic typical of cults) The reports also learned that they were trafficking children (they were removing minor children from the area where their families lived and removing them to far-away areas or different countries). Civil authorities in two nations condemned Heralds for cнιℓd тrαffιcking .

    I've linked two docuмents from the Vatican stating they should stop teaching and send minors back to families

    They are in Portuguese the PDFs but it would be good if someone who knew Portuguese proficiently could translate them

    This is the first one. I put it through a translation machine and made some adjustments.

    The text is somewhat strange. It might be a translation from another language, probably Italian.

    Quote
    Most Reverend Eminence, 

    We received your official letter through which you communicate to us some
    information regarding the three entities grouped under the name of Heralds of
    Gospel. We sincerely thank you.

    As requested, we have attached the decree that appoints
    formally as your  Assistant, the Reverend Father Evaldo Gomez, O. Carm.,
    chosen by you as your Delegate to the male Society of apostolic life Virgo Flos Carmeli.

    Furthermore, this Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life
    and Societies of Apostolic Life - after consulting the Dicastery for
    the Laity, Family and Life - and obtaining the approval of Holy Father Francis,
    communicates the following:

    — in the light of information received by the Apostolic See;

    — taking into account the numerous communications sent by the parents
    of children and young people in the  orbit of the Associacio Arautos do
    Gospel, in which they lament that families of origin are, most of the time, excluded from their children's lives, and that contacts with the parents are not sufficiently guaranteed;
    — considering the type of excessively rigid discipline practiced in the communities of the Heralds of the Gospel;

    — in order to allow younger people to have the indispensable relationship with their
    families and with the aim of preventing any situation that could encourage possible abuse of conscience and plagiarism (?) against minors; it was decided that all minors admitted in any capacity to the Private association of Heralds of the Gospel or those residing in the Houses,
    Colleges, Boarding Schools of the same Association, or in the Society of apostolic life Virgo Flos Carmeli and Regina virginum, at the end of the school year in course must return to live with their families and to be entrusted to their respective parents.

    It is you, Most Rev. Eminence, who must communicate this decision to the General President of the Private Association Heralds of the Gospel, to the Superior General of the Society of Apostolic Clerical Life Virgo Flos Carmeli and the Female Apostolic Life Society Regina Virginum, and - along with its employees - define practical procedures and take appropriate measures  so that this decision is complied with within the deadlines established.

    I take this opportunity to greet you fraternally in the Lord crucified and resurrected.

    The other text is a little longer, but in short it installs a cardinal as the pontifical commissary and a bishop and a religious sister as his assistants in this intervetion on the three institutes mentioned in the previous letter (Heralds of the Gospel,  Virgo Flos Carmeli and Regina Virginum).

    It says that grave problems were found regarding the style of government and of life of each of its members, the vocational pastoral, the formation of new vocations, the source of financial resources and administration, and the management of apostolic works and activities.

    This one also is a bit strange, probably an already translated text from another language.


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #23 on: March 06, 2025, 03:25:00 AM »
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  • As for the first paragraph, that's pretty much every Trad these days.  So what's the end result when 99.99% of the "Hierarchy" have basically defected, and the vast majority of all the clergy.  Of course, there's going to be the perception of rebellion and anti-clericalism, when the "clerics" had nearly all gone Modernist.

    That's precisely where the attitude came from, and Bishop Castro de Mayer failed to identify it, that it's not anti-clericalism simpliciter, but anti-clericalism within the context of the current crisis in the Church.
    There must be a little more to it than that, Lad.

    Bishop de Castro Mayer was no dumb dumb. Hear what he is saying. He was not unaware of the crisis, and I don't think he was a man incapable of making distinctions.

    And then even before he came to that conclusion, already a young future Bishop Thomas Aquinas in 1972 who was looking for a Traditional seminary left Campos because he was discouraged by the influence of the TFP... these are Brazilians seeing things first hand.

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #24 on: March 06, 2025, 08:08:32 AM »
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  • There must be a little more to it than that, Lad.

    Bishop de Castro Mayer was no dumb dumb. Hear what he is saying. He was not unaware of the crisis, and I don't think he was a man incapable of making distinctions.

    And then even before he came to that conclusion, already a young future Bishop Thomas Aquinas in 1972 who was looking for a Traditional seminary left Campos because he was discouraged by the influence of the TFP... these are Brazilians seeing things first hand.
    Agreed, it's strange how Lad has not actually responded to the constructive criticism of the people actually trying to contribute to the thread  
    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #25 on: March 07, 2025, 02:05:59 PM »
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  • Agreed, it's strange how Lad has not actually responded to the constructive criticism of the people actually trying to contribute to the thread 

    I'd love to hear your personal experience with TFP in Britain!


    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #26 on: March 07, 2025, 06:06:54 PM »
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  • I'd love to hear your personal experience with TFP in BritaWeel 
    Well it's a Long story and they really do push the PCO Worship and Donna Lucia stuff to you behind closed walls. I know in Europe they are just as bad especially in France and the Netherlands where they have had Child sɛҳuąƖ Abuse issues in Schools.

    I wish to go into it one day in detail but TLDR from my experience , Doing God's work by protesting devilsh things like Abortion ( It's the Façade of the TFP with bad intentions  but it is still God's work) Like the Heralds lots of abuse cover ups and Cultism twoards Plinio and his Mother.
    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #27 on: March 07, 2025, 06:34:52 PM »
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  • Another Discovery I also made of the Heralds from a few days ago.

    In the video attached you can see an Heralds of Gospel Priest (We established that they are the direct De Jure and Defacto successors to the TFP) during the burial of a person.

    In the burial video, The Heralds Priest gives the blessing for the intercession of Dr Plinio, and Donna Lucia (PCO mother and at the end Monsinor Joao Cla (Founder of Herlads and Protege of Plinio). The Weird thing is that Mons Cla was still alive when this video was published so it is literally absurd to to ask for his intercession

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tV8cTQKaObenr81djrgmCm1hAF3SYMg4/view?usp=sharing
    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #28 on: March 15, 2025, 01:37:08 PM »
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  • Well it's a Long story and they really do push the PCO Worship and Donna Lucia stuff to you behind closed walls. I know in Europe they are just as bad especially in France and the Netherlands where they have had Child sɛҳuąƖ Abuse issues in Schools.

    I wish to go into it one day in detail but TLDR from my experience , Doing God's work by protesting devilsh things like Abortion ( It's the Façade of the TFP with bad intentions  but it is still God's work) Like the Heralds lots of abuse cover ups and Cultism twoards Plinio and his Mother.


    When you have the time, go into it here. I am quite interested in their presence here in Britain

    Offline Aleksandar

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    Re: TFP Thread
    « Reply #29 on: March 17, 2025, 05:03:54 AM »
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  • [Note that on October 13, 1967, the fiftieth anniversary of the apparitions of Fatima, Dr Plínio organized a great ceremony at TFP's headquarters, at Rua Pará. In this ceremony, everyone had to renew their consecration to Our Lady, kneeling before Dr Plínio, who, seated on a throne, held an iron chain that hung from the image of Our Lady, in a niche, behind his throne. Then, the chain presented by Dr Plínio was kissed and a consecration was signed in blood that almost everyone believed to be Our Lady. On other occasions, docuмents were signed in blood ... So this is a ritual that is very much in the style of TFP and Dr Plínio]. ( Looks similar to the video I attached)



    This is very serious. It is a known fact that blood is the currency of the spiritual world, contracts with demons are always made by signing the name in blood.

    I was once communicating with a TFP member as I was interested in joining, should I alert him about this? Or will he already know what’s going on but he chose to be part of it?