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Author Topic: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?  (Read 3718 times)

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Offline Cera

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Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2018, 05:05:10 PM »
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    There's an interesting nuance in the "Christian celebration" message I posted above.
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    Notice it recommends, "Why not recite the St. Michael Archangel prayer before going to Halloween celebrations?"
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    Another example of reverse order:
    Since Pope Leo XIII handed down the instruction for Prayers After Low Mass, which we call the Leonine Prayers after Low Mass,
        we have traditionally done those at the very end of Low Mass, ENDING with the Prayer to St. Michael Archangel.
    This recommendation to recite it "before going to Halloween celebrations" could work toward having the whole thing in reverse!
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    Your so-called Halloween celebrations might be organized by someone who has it all planned out, to reverse order the Mass for their "party."
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    If you show up a few minutes late, they might have already done their St. Michael Archangel recitation.
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    The message from my previous post is found on a Novus Ordo website -- why don't they just say "Don't go to Halloween celebrations?"
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    No, they don't say that, because of Vat.II and syncretism and religious liberty.
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    They lead you to believe that you can be a positive influence by bringing the Catholic faith INTO the devil's den.
         That you can be the agent of truth, goodness and beauty in an environment of ugliness, deception and evil.
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    "...Before going to Halloween celebrations" you can say the St. Michael prayer -- well then why not say that prayer before going to other places too?
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    You could say it before going to an X-rated movie, or a stripper show, or female mud wrestling, or even non-Catholic religious services!
         Why stop at "before going to Halloween celebrations?"

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    Don't you think it would be better to NOT GO TO SUCH EVENTS OR PLACES at all? Like in avoiding the near occasion of sin?
    Don't you think it would be better to not go there in the first place instead of using the St. Michael prayer as an excuse to go there anyway?
    As if -- "Oh, it's okay to sin, so long as we say this prayer here before we commit the sin." --  Utter nonsense!!
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    I agree with all you say. Why did you post this wretched article only to respond to it yourself? This is a perfect example of a "straw man argument," implying that you are reacting to something posted by another when you are actually reacting to something you posted yourself.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #46 on: November 07, 2018, 05:18:12 PM »
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  • .
    Really!?
    Why would the devil be scared away by a devil costume?
    Why would evil spirits be driven away by costumes that look like evil spirits?
    What kind of "Christians" were these? Arians? Pelagians? Huguenots?

    Who knows?  Lots of people had strange superstitious beliefs about the Plague.  Gargoyles seem to be rooted in superstition.  Today the Mexicans have a devotion to St. Death.  Lots of syncretism.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #47 on: November 07, 2018, 07:57:45 PM »
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  • .
    That video was taken in 2006. Are things now worse in the Novus Ordo especially here in the Southland of California?
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    The video was published in 2006 but it seems to have been somewhat older, perhaps taken in the 90's by the look of the film quality.
    Plus, Barney the (violet) Dinosaur was canceled in the year 2000.
    So, for the priest to be using that costume after the 90's would have been really behind the times -- an unforgivable sin.
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    In any event, I just heard on the news that Lowes is closing 40 of their underperforming stores, two of them in Aliso Viejo.
    That's where this video was made with the Barney priest, so the area might now be in decline -- after all their Halloween masses!
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    From the YouTube channel page:
    (It's possible that the man taking the video was Ken Fisher, the founder of Concerned Roman Catholics of America (CRCA) in the diocese of Orange. Ken passed away last year. May he rest in peace.)
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    Published on Nov 6, 2006


    The following clips were captured at Corpus Christi Catholic Church in Aliso Viejo, California.  The parish bulletin encouraged parishioners to wear Halloween costumes to Mass.  The segment includes Eucharistic Ministers dressed as a huntsman and a devil, as well as an organist dressed as a devil.  The 6 min clip ends with Fr. Fred Bailey leaving before the end of Mass, returning shortly thereafter in his "Barney" costume.

    These segments were provided by concerned Catholics within the Diocese of Orange.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #48 on: November 07, 2018, 09:01:15 PM »
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  • .
    I agree with all you say. Why did you post this wretched article only to respond to it yourself? This is a perfect example of a "straw man argument," implying that you are reacting to something posted by another when you are actually reacting to something you posted yourself.
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    It's nice to see you agree with me, Cera, but you're confused as to the meaning of "straw man argument," of which this is not an example, let alone "perfect" example. 
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    A straw man argument is posing a fictitious or made-up situation just for the purpose of attacking it, since it resembles that which you pretend to attack. 
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    What I posted was not fictitious or made up. It is an actual poster that was used at a Novus Ordo parish to answer the question of what to do about Halloween. They're actually trying to do a poche - thing --- to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, by turning Halloween into a Catholic event. 
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    They even say Halloween is Catholic, if you look hard enough, that is.  Well, that's false. Halloween is not Catholic.
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    Children who go trick-or-treating fully expect to eat at least SOME of the candy that same day, which is the Vigil of All Saints. 
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    The Vigil of All Saints is a day of partial abstinence, when flesh meat should be taken only at the main meal, that is, once in the day.
    So then having a bunch of candy --- does that exactly fit in with the principle of partial abstinence?
    How does a Catholic mother (or father for that matter) keep consistent with the Catholic rule of fast and abstinence when confronted with a pile of sweets?
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    If Halloween were Catholic, the consumption of the sweets would be the following day, the Feast of All Saints, not the day before.
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    How do you get your children to go out collecting trick-or-treat candy only not to consume any of it until the next day?
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    Sounds like a great way to teach your children that being Catholic means setting yourself up for contradiction. 
    Hypocrisy like, avoid the near occasion of sin, except when you deliberately engage in the near occasion of sin, then it's okay. 
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    It's not unique about Halloween in this regard. 
    The same thing happens on the eve of the Immaculate Conception, on Christmas Eve and the eve of Easter (Holy Saturday for Catholics). 
    As of 1941, the eve of the Immaculate Conception in America takes on a new hue. Not really a day to celebrate, Pearl Harbor.
    But watch out for Christmas parties all during Advent (a mildly penitential season), held by non-Catholics who just can't wait for Christmas.
    Protestants love to have their Christmas parties on the day before Christmas, a day of complete abstinence for Catholics.
    It's like they take great pleasure indulging themselves in pleasures that they know are off limits to Catholics because of their faith.
    I've known Catholics who fell right into the trap, joining up with their Protestant friends to party down the evening before Midnight Mass.
    But then they wouldn't go to Mass, or, if they did, they had no idea why everyone was hungry (clue: Catholics had abstained all day, that's why).

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #49 on: November 08, 2018, 01:03:52 AM »
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  • .
    My purpose in making these posts is to show you that even when something appears to be "Catholic" you can't let your guard down!
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    Maybe I wasn't clear in what the source was -- I was posting an image from the following web page:
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    https://churchpop.com/2018/10/31/is-it-okay-to-celebrate-halloween-exorcist-explains-its-potential-dangers/
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    It's a thing called "ChurchPOP" using a pair of popsicle sticks with a halo as a logo and a gimmick, apparently:
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    ChurchPOP
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    This issue pretends to address the question of whether it's okay to celebrate Halloween, and it's WRITTEN BY AN EXORCIST, they say.
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    This must be one of those exorcists that Fr. Gabriel Amorth was talking about when he said their exorcisms don't work.
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    There are more things wrong with the page than are right, and a lot of them are in the poster-image they display:
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    They begin one portion with the bait: "As Catholics, we believe in the reality of evil." Then they take a good and decent thing, the St. Michael Archangel prayer, and recommend that it be recited before going into satan's den ---- 
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    ---- Instead of saying that you shouldn't be going in there in the first place! 
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    Offline TheJovialInquisitor

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #50 on: November 08, 2018, 02:05:25 AM »
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  • Honestly, Halloween, like every secular holiday, will never even be remembered in the near future.  The current state of the holiday, regardless of its origins, is a bunch of bullcrap meant to sell costumes and candy, as well as host parties where high school/college students can get drunk at.  If no one cares about Christmas right now, you can be damn well sure that no one will care about Halloween.  Just let it die out, and all your problems will solve themselves.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Does anyone celebrate Halloween here?
    « Reply #51 on: November 14, 2018, 10:08:34 PM »
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  • Honestly, Halloween, like every secular holiday, will never even be remembered in the near future.  The current state of the holiday, regardless of its origins, is a bunch of bullcrap meant to sell costumes and candy, as well as host parties where high school/college students can get drunk at.  If no one cares about Christmas right now, you can be damn well sure that no one will care about Halloween.  Just let it die out, and all your problems will solve themselves.
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    Yesterday was Tuesday, November 13th. I went to a thrift store to donate some used personal items. This shop is one that has so-called Christian worship on Sundays. When I went inside, I noticed tables set up in their "worship space" with napkins and plates of cookies on a table for a sort of bake sale. I asked the owner, "So you're having a party?" 
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    He replied, "Yes! And you're welcome to join us -- come on in and have some coffee and some treats." So I went in to the party room, and socialized for a few minutes. I asked them what's the occasion? They told me "Christmas." I replied, "But it's the middle of November, not even Advent yet." 
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    Their answer: "We like to get the season rolling a bit earlier before everyone gets caught up in Thanksgiving next week." 
    To get the season rolling early, they were having a 50% off sale on this, their "Open House" day in anticipation of Christmas, well before Advent starts.
    Next month they'll do a Christmas concert on Tuesday December 11th, then an Advent liturgy and concert on Sunday Dec. 23rd. 
    If you inquire it turns out they're Lutherans so they don't have Halloween since for them October 31st is Reformation Day.
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    As for your prediction that all the secular holidays will soon be forgotten, we could come back next year and the year after and see how that's going.
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    Regarding "no one cares about Christmas right now," we still have certain areas in LA where entire neighborhoods seem like everyone is competing with each other for elaborate yard decorations. Some even get an ice company to dump snow in the yard on Christmas eve. One is called Candy Cane Lane (not the name of any street), located east of Winnetka just north of the 101 Freeway. Another is something like Christmas Tree Lane, on a north-south street about Sierra Madre or Altadena, just north of Pasadena. The evergreen trees there are 150 feet tall, and the neighbors manage to get them all strung up with lights and ornaments. Then the DWP (LA utility) puts together a drive-through Christmas exhibit of lights and music and animated figures along a 1/4 mile stretch of road in Griffith Park. These all have been going on since post WWII. 
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