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Author Topic: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?  (Read 6603 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
« on: January 20, 2023, 02:34:40 AM »
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  • Consider this information. 

    Maybe he's just really, really bad at doing research?



    Vatican II Not Binding? How Dr. Taylor Marshall Misconstrues What Paul VI Really Said

    12min 3sec




    If VII is not binding, then you can easily just stay and resist.  


    If it is binding then....well.....you might become an evil and despicable Sede...  :trollface::trollface::trollface:


    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 04:51:42 AM »
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  • I will say on the surface that NOW presents a good argument and that TM should have not cut short the quotes, which makes no sense as to why he would do that, you'd think a doctor, of all people, would know that everything has to be understood in context.

    I think pretty much everyone already knows there were no ex cathedra definitions, but I am still not entirely clear on exactly which teaching(s) NOW is saying that V2 actually bound us to.

    I know there are many but from the top of my head for example, is NOW saying that per the pope/council that we are bound to believe that Catholics worship the same God as Muslims and that those outside the Church can be saved because these and plenty of other heresies were taught at the Council? 

    It sounds like NOW is saying that these and other heresies are the type of things we're supposed to be bound to if Pope Paul VI was the pope, not because he explicitly said we are bound to them, but because he taught them with his authority while in a Council, which NOW, referencing past teachings, believes such a thing is impossible for a true pope to do.

    Do I have this right? 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 06:08:06 AM »
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  • Taylor Marshall is a grifter, but he is one amongst a very long list of grifters in Trad Inc.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 06:34:56 AM »
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  • Taylor Marshall is a grifter, but he is one amongst a very long list of grifters in Trad Inc.
    Very much so. He teases some important "revelation" and then comes out with some inane points that any well-catechized Catholic could come up with. Followed by shilling his book.
    He caters to an audience because his livelihood is tied to this character he plays. It's all a grift. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for years, but lately this has become very much apparent.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 06:39:06 AM »
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  • Problem is that these lay apostolates all need to be shut down, and Taylor Marshall needs to go get a real job.  He has to basically poll his audience and then conform his opinions to them, or he loses his livlihood.  So he's compromised by that simple fact, and he may not be consciously doing it.  Occasionally you get a counter-example, such as with Gerry Matatics, who's willing to give all that up to remain true to what he believes, but he's the rare exception.  Most of the others like their money and their lifestyle.  Marshall puts up one video a day and makes $250K a year off his video channel, and half of them are garbage where it's clear that he didn't even prepare.  Every once in a while he'll write a book, and if you played a drinking game where you took a shot every time he plugs his book during each day's video, you'd pass out drunk.  He regularly takes his entire family on overseas pilgrimages ... that other people pay for.

    As for distorting quotes, there's nothing new.  Bishop Kelly did it with regard to the +Thuc consecrations, where he deliberately removed parts of quotations that actually hurt his case against the validity of their Orders, and Father Laisney did the same thing when he was attacking Feeneyism.  What they did was tantamount to lying, and it's hard to see that coming from priests.  Why do they do this?  Perhaps they're just so convinced of their position that it's an extension of confirmation bias where they "filter out" stuff that their minds refuse to grasp.

    That's the problem everywhere, that of intellectual dishonesty.  St. Thomas explained that the human intellect was designed by God to grasp the truth, and when it doesn't it's due to bad will.  So due to bad will, Bishop Kelly has preconceived conclusions.  I heard from one of The Nine directly that he told them up front, "We can't say [the Thuc line] is valid, because then people will go to them."  People have motivations of the will that lead to agendas that then lead to intellectual dishonesty.  Taylor Marshall is in that category.  I don't think that any of these men is in the category where they sit there thinking, "This doesn't back my position, so I'll distort it."  They're likely only half-conscious that they're doing it.

    Then with other issues, people have various psychological attachments to things and refuse to examine them with an open mind.  That's the case with Flat Earth or Sedevacantism.  People are so disturbed by the notion of FE that they won't take an objective look at the question.  People are so attached to the notion of having some guy parading around Rome in a white cassock calling himself "Pope" that they refuse to actually look objectively at the matter of sedevacantism.

    I think that if people became aware of their motivations and consciously set about making th decision to look at something with an open mind, we'd have much less error out in the world.  With FE, for instance, I like everyone else went into it thinking it was a bunch of nonsense, due to the conditioning to which we've all been subjected, but I made a conscious decision, "I will have a look with an open mind and consider their arguments."  And the more I looked, the more I saw how legitimate their arguments were.  I look at every conspiracy theory, but I do not buy them all.  I base it on the evidence.  I've looked at the "Nuclear Bombs are fake" conspiracy and the "Airplanes don't need jet fuel" conspiracy and the "Universal "Mud Flood" conspiracy, but I've found not= solid evidence for these, although there is some funny-business going on with them, enough to make you wonder, but not enough to prove them.  I looked a "Ann Heche was murdered" and found no evidence for it.  And I've looked at the +Vigano is an Opus Dei Masonic operative, or the +Lefebvre was controlled opposition theory.  When evaluating a conspiracy, the first thing I consider is whether there's a credible cui bono for a conspiracy.  If I find none, I don't accept it.

    In any case, people need to start making conscious decisions.  "I don't really buy into sedevacantism, but I'll go see what they have to say and consider it with an open mind." or "I don't really buy Feeneyism, but let me have a look at the evidence for it." or "I'm skeptical about the validity of the +Thuc line, but let me have a look at both sides of the debate."  But with these issues, they're non-starters for most people because they simply don't WANT to believe it.  They've decided (act of the will, as St. Thomas indicates) beforehand that they're not going to acept a certain conclusion, so then they go in applying their confirmation bias to the issue, filtering out what they don't want to believe, very often not conscious of what they're doing.  That brings us back full circle to the "ellipses" used by Marshall, Bishop Kelly, Father Laisney, and others.  One would think that if they're doing it consciously, they would realize that they could get caught and exposed, and have their entire work discredited.

    I highly recommend the scholastic approach to seeking the truth.  You look at the arguments from both sides, including especially the arguments against the position you lean toward ... with an open mind, and you make the conscious decision that you're not going to dismiss their conclusion out of hand.  You go in pretending that you know nothing about the subject and have no prior conclusion.  I do this all the time.  In the case of evolution, for instance, I pretend that I'm on a debate team.  When I was doing debate in High School and at University, we went to tournaments where at one time we had to argue one side of an issue, and at other times the opposite side.  This is the very definition of "sophistry", by the way, where you'll argue for something that you don't believe in, and lawyers do it as a matter of course, because their careers are built on it.  In any case, I pretend that I believe in evolution, or believe that he earth is a globe, or believe that there's Baptism of Desire, or believe that Bergoglio is the pope, and I make the best argument I can for my position, as if I were on a debate team and have been assigned to promote the position.  In all these cases, I simply cannot make a convicing case for the position ... which is why I have the positions that I have, yet I remain open to any new arguments that might come up.  And I pray to God that He lead me to His truth, as that should be our motivation, to see out His truth, whatever it might be.

    It helps to do some introspection.  "What are my motivations?  Do I have any extrinsic motivations with regard to this subject?"  Is it money (Taylor Marshall)?  Is it that I have non-Catholic relatives and so want to believe they can be saved (BoD)?  Is it because I don't want to look foolish and look like a kook, or because I have some psychological attachment to the issue?"  If one can discover any potential motivations that could lead to bias up front, becoming conscious of those motives might help to prevent them from leading you into error.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 06:44:26 AM »
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  • Very much so. He teases some important "revelation" and then comes out with some inane points that any well-catechized Catholic could come up with. Followed by shilling his book.
    He caters to an audience because his livelihood is tied to this character he plays. It's all a grift. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for years, but lately this has become very much apparent.

    I continue to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of the claim that he's a conscious Opus Dei agent trying to do harm, as there's no evidence for it, but there's plenty of evidence in the external forum (such as you cite above) that he's a grifter.  Even then, I don't judge that he's doing it consciously, since we have no evidence of that.  But at one level (at least subsconsciously) he's clearly motivated by making (a lot of) money from his "apostolate".  So, to answer the question in the thread title, we can say he's a grifter, since there's solid evidence for it, but not that he's a (deliberate) deceiver, nor with his grifting can we say how much of it is conscious vs. his having subconscious motivations that subtly influence his actions and his attitudes.  In charity, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I have to say it's the latter.

    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #6 on: January 20, 2023, 07:18:14 AM »
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  • Is there really a difference between the two?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #7 on: January 20, 2023, 07:33:08 AM »
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  • I continue to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of the claim that he's a conscious Opus Dei agent trying to do harm, as there's no evidence for it, but there's plenty of evidence in the external forum (such as you cite above) that he's a grifter.  Even then, I don't judge that he's doing it consciously, since we have no evidence of that.  But at one level (at least subsconsciously) he's clearly motivated by making (a lot of) money from his "apostolate".  So, to answer the question in the thread title, we can say he's a grifter, since there's solid evidence for it, but not that he's a (deliberate) deceiver, nor with his grifting can we say how much of it is conscious vs. his having subconscious motivations that subtly influence his actions and his attitudes.  In charity, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I have to say it's the latter.
    Has he ever responded to NOW? Has he admitted to what he had done in his book?  It seems to me if it was subconscious or innocent, then he would want to publicly retract it/correct it once shown his error.  I tried to find such a response, and I could not find one.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 07:48:48 AM »
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  • What i can say about Taylor Marshall is that he mimics Jay Dyer -sometimes to a tee.
    Taylor is a little more formal and his language is cleaned up, but the intonations, mannerisms, humor, jokes, even attempts at singing in a jocular way is exactly like Dyer. It's uncanny.  Jay Dyer has been in the media for over 20 years so I know who's copying who.
    Listen (don't watch )to a broadcast side by side of the two of them. The modulation of the voices are almost identical.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #9 on: January 20, 2023, 07:58:12 AM »
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  • Has he ever responded to NOW? Has he admitted to what he had done in his book?  It seems to me if it was subconscious or innocent, then he would want to publicly retract it/correct it once shown his error.  I tried to find such a response, and I could not find one.

    What can he respond?  At this point, he's not going to want to draw attention to it.  "Yep, I lied.  I'm sorry." is probably something you'll never hear from him.  And "It was an accident." simply won't fly.  He's going to ignore it ... regardless of whether it was conscious/deliberate or not.  If he admitted fault and apologized, he would lose credibility ... which in turn would hurt his ratings and cash flow in the long term.

    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #10 on: January 20, 2023, 08:02:56 AM »
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  • There should be no money involved in any of this, and there should be nobody who "does Catholicism for a living".  Priests and religious, as well as others (clerical and administrative personnel for such entities as the SSPX, FSSP, CMRI, and so on), need to have their basic life requirements provided for --- no one can live on air --- but aside from that, money needs to be entirely out of the equation.  

    And why all these books and videos?  Who needs these?  I don't have time to sit and read all these books and watch videos, least of all ones recently published.  I'm too busy homeschooling and raising my son, taking care of my elderly mother, and maintaining two homes (my mother's and my own).  It's a full-time job, and I live on very modest pensions and investments.


    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #11 on: January 20, 2023, 08:03:40 AM »
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  • What can he respond?  At this point, he's not going to want to draw attention to it.  "Yep, I lied.  I'm sorry." is probably something you'll never hear from him.  And "It was an accident." simply won't fly.  He's going to ignore it ... regardless of whether it was conscious/deliberate or not.  If he admitted fault and apologized, he would lose credibility ... which in turn would hurt his ratings and cash flow in the long term.
    In which case, there is no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #12 on: January 20, 2023, 08:10:14 AM »
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  • There should be no money involved in any of this, and there should be nobody who "does Catholicism for a living".  Priests and religious, as well as others (clerical and administrative personnel for such entities as the SSPX, FSSP, CMRI, and so on), need to have their basic life requirements provided for --- no one can live on air --- but aside from that, money needs to be entirely out of the equation. 

    And why all these books and videos?  Who needs these?  I don't have time to sit and read all these books and watch videos, least of all ones recently published.  I'm too busy homeschooling and raising my son, taking care of my elderly mother, and maintaining two homes (my mother's and my own).  It's a full-time job, and I live on very modest pensions and investments.
    Excellent post.  Talking heads,  Novus Ordo priests and nuns, etc.  make too much money and are living a life style higher than any of us. 

    (They go on fancy trips, conferences.  That isn’t really evangelizing. These bishops go to fancy restaurants and secular hotels and eat fancy food and engage in unholy actions. ). Local novus priest would go to a bar and sing karaoke and just spent summer down the shore while we are working long hours in hot sun.).  I see them as gluttonous sloths. 




    all we really need is our bibles, rosaries, missal, hymnal. 

    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #13 on: January 20, 2023, 08:26:23 AM »
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  • I will say on the surface that NOW presents a good argument and that TM should have not cut short the quotes, which makes no sense as to why he would do that, you'd think a doctor, of all people, would know that everything has to be understood in context.

    I think pretty much everyone already knows there were no ex cathedra definitions, but I am still not entirely clear on exactly which teaching(s) NOW is saying that V2 actually bound us to.

    I know there are many but from the top of my head for example, is NOW saying that per the pope/council that we are bound to believe that Catholics worship the same God as Muslims and that those outside the Church can be saved because these and plenty of other heresies were taught at the Council? 

    It sounds like NOW is saying that these and other heresies are the type of things we're supposed to be bound to if Pope Paul VI was the pope, not because he explicitly said we are bound to them, but because he taught them with his authority while in a Council, which NOW, referencing past teachings, believes such a thing is impossible for a true pope to do.

    Do I have this right?

    I didn't watch the OP video. So the problem is that Taylor Marshall is saying that Vll is not binding? I don't see why that's a big deal. It was a Modernist council designed to usher in a Modernist revolution so that Modernists can more comfortably occupy the Church. 

    Do I have this right - the sedevacantists (or some of them) believe that we are bound to the Modernist council if we believe that the council popes were true popes? If this is what they are saying, it's just more convoluted thinking by the sedevacantists. It doesn't help their cause. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Taylor Marshall: Grifter or Deceiver?
    « Reply #14 on: January 20, 2023, 08:57:35 AM »
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  • I didn't watch the OP video. So the problem is that Taylor Marshall is saying that Vll is not binding? I don't see why that's a big deal. It was a Modernist council designed to usher in a Modernist revolution so that Modernists can more comfortably occupy the Church.

    No, the controversy is about his using ellipses to delete parts of quotations that make it appear that they're saying the opposite of what they actually say when you put the omitted parts back in.