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Author Topic: Tattoos are a mortal sin  (Read 10490 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2018, 09:36:46 PM »
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    • Yes, not to derail this thread, if you wish to you could make another thread of it. 
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #61 on: October 21, 2018, 09:49:54 PM »
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    • it would come as a surprise to crusaders and pilgrims who got tattooed upon completion of their pilgrimages to the Holy Sites in Jerusalem. Also not just Copts but other eastern Christians receive them and many times especially they are used to show to security at church doors to prove they are faithful church members.
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    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #62 on: October 22, 2018, 01:40:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 21, 2018, 07:58:43 PM
    Maria Regina posted that this was common for Catholics in Muslim regions.

    Some posters mentioned that we don't need tattoos because we have the mark of Baptism.  Sure, but that's not a visible mark.  What's wrong with adopting also a visible mark of being Catholic?
    Because there's no need to "improve upon" the human body, including the Catholic human body.  If we want to be visible about our faith (many do, rightly so), we can wear crosses around our necks, scapulars, miraculous medals properly blessed.  Etc.  Those are all visible marks of Catholicism, but one is not a better or more convicted Catholic for penetrating one's Catholic identity into the skin.  It's living the invisible mark of Baptism and our Confirmation that gives us the genuine and most persuasive visibility He wants from us.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #63 on: October 22, 2018, 02:44:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: MMagdala on October 22, 2018, 01:40:00 AM
    Because there's no need to "improve upon" the human body, including the Catholic human body.  If we want to be visible about our faith (many do, rightly so), we can wear crosses around our necks, scapulars, miraculous medals properly blessed.  Etc.  Those are all visible marks of Catholicism, but one is not a better or more convicted Catholic for penetrating one's Catholic identity into the skin.  It's living the invisible mark of Baptism and our Confirmation that gives us the genuine and most persuasive visibility He wants from us.
    Nevertheless, the miraculous medal and the scapular are powerful sacramentals.

    When I was attacked by a woman who had told me earlier that she was raised as a child under Russian communism, she used a powerful form of hypnosis on me. She just stared into my eyes and I was rendered powerless. I could not defend myself as she tried to strangle me. My husband yelled and was able to break\the satanic spell, and I was able to get away from her. No doubt, she was a trained agent in order to do that. She had no morals at all.

    Immediately after that attack, I called my priest. He asked me if I had worn my miraculous medal that day. I confessed that I had forgotten to put it on after taking my shower.

    Wearing the miraculous medal is not a superstition, but instead it is a devout practice asking our Lady to protect us. Many soldiers during WWII told of that metal taking the bullet for them.
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    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #64 on: October 22, 2018, 08:23:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: MMagdala on October 22, 2018, 01:40:00 AM
    Because there's no need to "improve upon" the human body, including the Catholic human body.  If we want to be visible about our faith (many do, rightly so), we can wear crosses around our necks, scapulars, miraculous medals properly blessed.  Etc.  Those are all visible marks of Catholicism, but one is not a better or more convicted Catholic for penetrating one's Catholic identity into the skin.  It's living the invisible mark of Baptism and our Confirmation that gives us the genuine and most persuasive visibility He wants from us.

    Getting a small tattoo of a cross is not mean as an "improvement" to the body, but the imposition of a sign of devotion to Our Lord.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #65 on: October 22, 2018, 08:26:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on October 21, 2018, 09:49:54 PM
    it would come as a surprise to crusaders and pilgrims who got tattooed upon completion of their pilgrimages to the Holy Sites in Jerusalem. Also not just Copts but other eastern Christians receive them and many times especially they are used to show to security at church doors to prove they are faithful church members.

    Ah, yes, but these are all committing mortal sin.   :facepalm:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #66 on: October 22, 2018, 08:52:28 AM »
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    • Quote
    Because there's no need to "improve upon" the human body, including the Catholic human body.  If we want to be visible about our faith (many do, rightly so), we can wear crosses around our necks, scapulars, miraculous medals properly blessed.  Etc.  Those are all visible marks of Catholicism, but one is not a better or more convicted Catholic for penetrating one's Catholic identity into the skin.  It's living the invisible mark of Baptism and our Confirmation that gives us the genuine and most persuasive visibility He wants from us.
    I guess Our Lady erred when She asked us all to wear the scapular.  I guess the Church errs when She has religious wear habits or cassocks.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #67 on: October 22, 2018, 09:54:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 22, 2018, 08:23:52 AM
    Getting a small tattoo of a cross is not mean as an "improvement" to the body, but the imposition of a sign of devotion to Our Lord.
    Arbitrarily painting a wall with graffiti is defacement even if the painting is religious.  Painting the face of a church is a desecration even if it is a painting of something religious (unless a church authority advised it and then he would put himself in an interesting position).  Paintings belong on secondary medium, not something like the body or a church. Broadcasting pictures of God's creatures on the Vatican was a desecration even though a lot of people imagined it was a beautiful thing.  Permanently painting the body is a desecration of the temple of the Holy Ghost no matter what the content.  The body does not belong to the person running around in it, it belongs to God.  While it seems harmless enough in some instances, where is the reasonable cut-off point unless it is at the beginning?  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #68 on: October 22, 2018, 10:12:52 AM »
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    • Wow, more gross condemnations and anathemas from Happenby.  I’m glad you weren’t part of the Inquisition; there’d be no Catholics left alive. 
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #69 on: October 22, 2018, 10:18:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 22, 2018, 10:12:52 AM
    Wow, more gross condemnations and anathemas from Happenby.  I’m glad you weren’t part of the Inquisition; there’d be no Catholics left alive.
    I didn't make the condemnations or anathemas, I just believe them.  
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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #70 on: October 22, 2018, 11:10:17 AM »
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    • Two questions for clarification, and forgive me if not worded correctly:

    Is is possible for a Catholic to commit a mortal sin through ignorance?..

    If so, then are they fully culpable when they discover it along with the obligation to confess?..
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #71 on: October 22, 2018, 11:27:08 AM »
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    Is is possible for a Catholic to commit a mortal sin through ignorance?..

    Yes, absolutely it's possible because sin, as an offense against God, is independent of our knowledge of the sin.  For example, if a 3 yr old goes around using blasphemous language, his blasphemy is a mortal sin (because the act is a grave offense), even if he is unaware and not guilty.  Blasphemy still offends God, regardless of our knowledge, because evil exists outside of ourselves.


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    If so, then are they fully culpable when they discover it along with the obligation to confess?..

    In the case of the 3 yr old who blasphemes, of course they would not be required to confess such a thing, even when they made their first confession.  In the case of an adult, who became aware of a mortal sin they did not know about, their guilt for the sin would depend on a variety of factors.  Usually one should confess it at the next opportunity.
    One has an obligation to have what's called a "properly formed" conscience, so that we know what is/isn't a mortal sin.  If our conscience is ignorant in many areas, this is in itself a sin of laziness and omission.  So, yes, it's very possible to commit a mortal sin "without full knowledge" if our conscience is ill-formed.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #72 on: October 22, 2018, 11:31:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on October 22, 2018, 09:54:18 AM
    Arbitrarily painting a wall with graffiti is defacement even if the painting is religious.  Painting the face of a church is a desecration even if it is a painting of something religious (unless a church authority advised it and then he would put himself in an interesting position).  Paintings belong on secondary medium, not something like the body or a church. Broadcasting pictures of God's creatures on the Vatican was a desecration even though a lot of people imagined it was a beautiful thing.  Permanently painting the body is a desecration of the temple of the Holy Ghost no matter what the content.  The body does not belong to the person running around in it, it belongs to God.  While it seems harmless enough in some instances, where is the reasonable cut-off point unless it is at the beginning?  

    I see lots of edifying artwork painted onto or etched into the walls (interior and exterior) of churches.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #73 on: October 22, 2018, 11:37:56 AM »
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    • I disagree ... to a point.  It is not possible to commit a mortal sin without full knowledge and advertence.  Here I distinguish mortal sin from grave sin.  Mortal sin causes the loss of sanctifying grace.  So a 3-year-old child can commit a GRAVE sin but not a mortal sin, because he has not reached the age of reason.  I personally would confess all grave sins I have committed because I can never be sure about the degree of my ignorance and/or culpability.  Even ignorance can be culpable.

    Since this is in the context of tattoos, I'm guessing that we're talking about someone who is now convinced that the tattoos he/she received in the past were grave matter but did not consider it such in the past.  I would confess the sin, although some schools of moral theology (such as the probabilist views of St. Alphonsus) would remove the obligation (since there's doubt).  There COULD have been a sufficient degree of culpability in the ignorance, but probabilism would excuse from the obligation to confess if it's not certain that a mortal sin was committed.  Probabilism is also the philosophy suggested for those who have issues with scrupulosity.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #74 on: October 22, 2018, 11:42:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on October 22, 2018, 10:18:59 AM
    I didn't make the condemnations or anathemas, I just believe them.  

    Can you produce Church teaching which states:  "If anyone receives a tattoo, even for reasons of piety and devotion, let him be anathema."?  Or anything from the Church Magisterium or universal Patristic consensus regarding tattoos?
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