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Author Topic: Tattoos are a mortal sin  (Read 41510 times)

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Offline confederate catholic

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Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
« Reply #120 on: October 24, 2018, 11:09:22 PM »
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  • It is due to poor catechism. Eastern churches are set up in the old country in such a way that all events take place around the Church so usually catechism became mostly un needed, in the diaspora it is a big problem. I know of two divorced persons who told me that had they been at home the priests would have explained things to them, but they got no advice in the US. When they went home to the Mother country the priests explained how horrible their divorce was, now they have such regrets.
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #121 on: October 25, 2018, 07:26:24 PM »
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  • Not winging it, spent the last 30 years alternating attendance at Eastern Liturgies, and after three years of Traditional Monastic formation, decided that the ancient Antiochian traditions were the closest thing to traditional monasticism still in existence. :)
    Are you a Catholic?


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #122 on: October 25, 2018, 07:34:45 PM »
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  • I suspect that this goes back to long before Vatican II in the Eastern Rites.  I believe that it's more due to poor catechesis regarding the Sacraments.
    This is basic stuff, going to communion in a state of mortal sin is sacrilege. I think the Eastern clergy have been for centuries too busy keeping their wives happy to have time to think about such "trivial things" such as sacrilege,  the age of reason,  marriage for life..... The Eastern religions are a just a cultural thing.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #123 on: October 25, 2018, 08:15:19 PM »
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  • This is basic stuff, going to communion in a state of mortal sin is sacrilege. I think the Eastern clergy have been for centuries too busy keeping their wives happy to have time to think about such "trivial things" such as sacrilege,  the age of reason,  marriage for life..... The Eastern religions are a just a cultural thing.

    First of all, these are not Eastern "religions", but legitimate CATHOLIC Liturgical Traditions.  Poor catechesis has nothing to do with the fact that they allow priests to marry.  As for your "marriage for life" comment, you're confusing them with the Orthodox.  No, the Eastern Rites are not merely "cultural" things.  Being as ignorant as you are about them, you sure act like you know it all and can sit in condemnation of them.  If you don't have a clear concept of what constitutes mortal sin, and the difference between Sacramental absolution and the minor absolution one receives at Mass, it's easy to get confused.  It's basic stuff for someone who has been taught to regurgitate the Baltimore Catechism, but not so basic if you never went to any kind of Catechism.  Eastern thinking tends to be more abstract, and they don't appear to be very good at clearly defining concepts the way we do in the West due to the scholastic theological movement.  They never really had a scholastic period where the emphasis was on being precise in your terms and definitions.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #124 on: October 25, 2018, 08:22:49 PM »
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  • This is basic stuff, going to communion in a state of mortal sin is sacrilege.

    So what things are and what things aren't mortal sin?  In the West we have lists of sins and categories.  For a lot of these people, due to lack of catechesis along those lines, they just think of mortal sin as "extremely serious stuff".  I would bet that 99% don't understand or believe that impure thoughts are sins.  And where does one draw the line between an involuntary impure thought (temptation) and actual consent?  I would't be surprised to find that most people don't think anything short of impure desires constitutes mortal sin ... if that.  There are probably people who limit mortal sins to things like murder, grand theft, and adultery/fornication.  If you take gravely sinful thoughts out of the equation, the requirement to Confess drops by like 99.5%.  None of this stuff is obvious if you haven't been catechised properly.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #125 on: October 26, 2018, 07:15:35 AM »
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  • It's basic stuff for someone who has been taught to regurgitate the Baltimore Catechism, but not so basic if you never went to any kind of Catechism.  Eastern thinking tends to be more abstract, and they don't appear to be very good at clearly defining concepts the way we do in the West due to the scholastic theological movement.  They never really had a scholastic period where the emphasis was on being precise in your terms and definitions.
    You are talking to a public school educated person who was basically never catechized.  I don't even remember ever going to Sunday school for 1st communion, all I remember is the nice white suit and arm band and hair cut, and I only remember that because I have a picture. Then there was my Confirmation at 13, I learned nothing there either, we were 6 wild public school boys in the Sunday school class, and all we did was throw things at each other, our teacher was a layman. When the bishop came, we were put together with the Catholic school class of like 30 students and we hid in the back and never had to answer a question. I learned NOTHING, and that Confirmation  was 2 years before the Novus Ordo. I lived my life in the world for the first 40 years with no knowledge of "concepts" as you call it. I stopped going to mass shortly after my confirmation, at like 14. I had zero learning and yet I knew not to go to communion whenever I went to many many weddings or funerals during the next 26 years. I knew that if I did, God work strike me down and turn me into a piece of fried bacon. How is it possible that an Easter Catholic person who goes to mass every Sunday all their lives never learned something so basic?

    You are making excuses for them, their faith is just a cultural thing, no different today than any South American.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #126 on: October 26, 2018, 07:34:20 AM »
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  • By the way, in my experience, knowledge does not just come from "going to catechism", it first comes from listening to God's voice. When we die, we will see that all we did was maybe lean 1/1,000,000 toward Him and he gave us everything else. The problem is just that man wants to do things their way. It is very convenient not to "know".

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #127 on: October 26, 2018, 07:52:45 AM »
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  • Quote
    None of this stuff is obvious if you haven't been catechised properly.
    We have an obligation to have a well-formed conscience.  If we do not, we will be judged on our sinful omission.  Also, impure thoughts would be known to be wrong by the heart/conscience just because of the natural law.  When one is a teenager and they encounter such temptations for the first time, you know such things are wrong.  A faulty conscience due to poor catechesis is not a complete excuse, but just partially.

    Quote
    You are making excuses for them, their faith is just a cultural thing, no different today than any South American.
    Agree.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #128 on: October 26, 2018, 08:02:05 AM »
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  • We have an obligation to have a well-formed conscience.  If we do not, we will be judged on our sinful omission.  Also, impure thoughts would be known to be wrong by the heart/conscience just because of the natural law.  When one is a teenager and they encounter such temptations for the first time, you know such things are wrong.  A faulty conscience due to poor catechesis is not a complete excuse, but just partially.

    One can sense from natural law that impure thoughts are wrong, but their classification as "mortal" sin is not evident from natural law, and requires catechesis.  Depending on the principles applied, one could conclude that impure actions are mortal, while impure thoughts are venial.  In fact, I've known a lot of people to whom it came as a very big surprise that thoughts could be mortally sinful.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #129 on: October 26, 2018, 08:15:15 AM »
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  • You are making excuses for them, their faith is just a cultural thing, no different today than any South American.

    What an arrogant, judgmental blowhard you are.  I doubt you even know any Eastern Catholics.  Of course you'll find some "cultural" Catholics in any cross-section, but this is by no means limited to the Eastern Rite.  Even in the Roman Rite, you'll find many whose faith is mostly cultural:  Irish, Hungarians, Polish, etc.  This is by no means unique to the Eastern Rites.  Yet in all these groups there are also many who take their faith seriously.  There's nothing to prevent the faith from being both religious AND cultural.  In fact, that's IDEAL, that our society and culture should be thoroughly imbued with the faith.  And it's the same in the Eastern Rites; there are good, bad, and lukewarm in every group, even among Traditional Catholics.  You on the other hand never allow anyone to have any excuse.  Be very careful, since when you die you're going to be judged with the same judgment that you yourself applied towards others, and I'd be very afraid to be in your shoes at your judgment.  So, while knowing next to nothing about them, you presume to dismiss all those in the Eastern "religions" as cultural Catholics.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #130 on: October 26, 2018, 08:59:21 AM »
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    It is due to poor catechism. Eastern churches are set up in the old country in such a way that all events take place around the Church so usually catechism became mostly un needed, in the diaspora it is a big problem. I know of two divorced persons who told me that had they been at home the priests would have explained things to them, but they got no advice in the US. When they went home to the Mother country the priests explained how horrible their divorce was, now they have such regrets.
    As Confederate Catholic points out, the Eastern Catholics rely on their Churches/priests moreso than we do in the West.  So poor catechesis is why they don't know better.  Ok, fine, but if they don't realize that they are dependent upon their priests for guidance, then they must be pretty obtuse.

    And in the above example, assuming the Eastern priests gave them all kinds of marriage preparation, how do they not know the weight of their marriage VOWS?  How did they not know divorce wasn't wrong?  I don't buy this.  Marriage as a lifetime committment has been culturally/globally-wide since the beginning of time.  If they truly "didn't get it", then they must've been partially retarded.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #131 on: October 26, 2018, 09:50:23 AM »
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    Last Tradhican wrote: You are making excuses for them, their faith is just a cultural thing, no different today than any South American.

    Your entire posting is one continuous straw man, my quick comments below. You should ask questions before you make such leaps. 


    What an arrogant, judgmental blowhard you are.  I doubt you even know any Eastern Catholics.  Of course you'll find some "cultural" Catholics in any cross-section, but this is by no means limited to the Eastern Rite.  Even in the Roman Rite, you'll find many whose faith is mostly cultural:  Irish, Hungarians, Polish, etc. (that extension should be obvious in my saying that they are no different than any South American today.)  This is by no means unique to the Eastern Rites (I never said it was unique to them, again, it should be obvious that I extended it to the Spanish, Irish, Hungarians, Polish, Italians.... ).  Yet in all these groups there are also many who take their faith seriously (If there weren't, there would be no Catholics left in the world) .  There's nothing to prevent the faith from being both religious AND cultural (another strawman).  In fact, that's IDEAL, that our society and culture should be thoroughly imbued with the faith (is that supposed to be some kind of .  And it's the same in the Eastern Rites; there are good, bad, and lukewarm in every group, even among Traditional Catholics.  You on the other hand never allow anyone to have any excuse (strawman).  Be very careful, since when you die you're going to be judged with the same judgment that you yourself applied towards others, and I'd be very afraid to be in your shoes at your judgment.  So, while knowing next to nothing about them, you presume to dismiss all those in the Eastern "religions" as cultural Catholics.

    I only responded because I respect the writer, He should think or ask questions before undertaking to waste both our times

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #132 on: October 26, 2018, 09:54:44 AM »
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  • It is due to poor catechism.

    Overall, I like the Catholic Eastern Rites, but I've seen a fair bit of "sloppiness" that needs to be corrected.  Also, Eastern Catholics rarely go to Confession, so much so that one Ukrainian priest preaches about and promotes Confession nearly every week ... to no avail.  There's a prayer everyone recites before Communion that is kind of an Act of Contrition, and I have this feeling that most people think it renders them worthy to receive even if they're not in a state of grace.
    Here is an example posted by you that directly contradicts your poor catechesis theory and confirms what I stated that it is very convenient "not to know". 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #133 on: October 26, 2018, 03:27:02 PM »
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  • Overall, I like the Catholic Eastern Rites, but I've seen a fair bit of "sloppiness" that needs to be corrected.  Also, Eastern Catholics rarely go to Confession, so much so that one Ukrainian priest preaches about and promotes Confession nearly every week ... to no avail. There's a prayer everyone recites before Communion that is kind of an Act of Contrition, and I have this feeling that most people think it renders them worthy to receive even if they're not in a state of grace.
    What about abortion and birth control? Are they also lax on that? Did you see children? My old aunt ended going to a Melkite Catholic church because it was next door to her home. Prectically everyone there was Latin Rite Catholic. They had no week day mass, only Sundays. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #134 on: October 26, 2018, 03:40:00 PM »
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  • What about abortion and birth control? Are they also lax on that? Did you see children? My old aunt ended going to a Melkite Catholic church because it was next door to her home. Prectically everyone there was Latin Rite Catholic. They had no week day mass, only Sundays.

    No, they are not lax on abortion and birth control.  Lots of older couples whose kids are mostly grown up and moved out.  For the relatively few younger couples that I've seen, there are children there, in what appear to be decent numbers.  Are they using NFP?  Probably.  But then Traditional Catholics do also.  Yes, lots of Latin Rite refugees after Vatican II to the Eastern Rites.  Some Eastern Rite parishes have more weekday Masses than others.  At the Ukrainian Cathedral near Cleveland, for a while, they had FIVE weekday Masses every morning:  7:00 AM, 7:30 AM, 8:00 AM, 8:30 AM, and 9:00 AM.  Weekday Masses are more difficult for most Eastern Rites because they generally don't have a "Low" Mass and therefore are always in need of a choir.  Ukrainian Rite has Westernized some and do have a Low/Recited Mass, so they have more weekday Masses.  Ukrainian Rite also have confessionals, whereas most Eastern Rites have penitents confess at the front of the church in front of an icon.  I wonder if that isn't a deterrent to confession right there.