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Author Topic: Tattoos are a mortal sin  (Read 10465 times)

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Offline confederate catholic

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Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2018, 12:31:15 PM »
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    • Understand the feeling about toddlers but have never experienced it, usually they are carried or if not behaving are removed from church. The canons require Latins to commune all eastern children who approach the rail though. Will find a brochure and post it if I can remember where it is. Again unless Orthodox children are accompanied to communion.
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    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #106 on: October 24, 2018, 01:28:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on October 24, 2018, 12:31:15 PM
    Understand the feeling about toddlers but have never experienced it, usually they are carried or if not behaving are removed from church. The canons require Latins to commune all eastern children who approach the rail though. Will find a brochure and post it if I can remember where it is. Again unless Orthodox children are accompanied to communion.

    I'm not speaking of ill-behaved children only.  Rare are the children who until they're at least about 4-5 have any understanding of what it is that they are actually doing.  I do not agree with the Eastern custom to commune toddlers.  I do not agree either with essentially requiring a child to wait until 7 either.  I believe that these should be on a case-by-case basis.  If the priest interviews the child and gets a sense for a decent understanding of what they're doing at Holy Communion, they should be admitted.  But if they have a decent understanding of what is taking place, then they should be going to Confession also.  Eastern Rites wait until the "age of reason" for Confession but then admit them all and sundry to Communion.  Both should happen at the same time, but not necessarily the age of 7.  I've known some children who would in my mind qualify by the age of 4 or 5.  But these 2 to 3 year olds are the problem.  Not to mention that most of them basically start sucking on and licking the spoon.  Most of my older kids are "grossed out" by having to receive Communion after one of the toddlers who's done that.  My son serves at a Ukrainian Liturgy and holds the cloth at Communion and watches all these kids suck on and lick the spoon, and it's hard for him to receive at the end because part of him is disgusted.  You should never go to Communion with any sense of disgust that you might be ingesting someone else's saliva.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #107 on: October 24, 2018, 02:13:42 PM »
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    • Wow, never seen that but I tend to be at oriental liturgies where communion is by intinction, or is dropped in the mouth by the priests fingers. The Ukrainian church I occasionally attend has large loaves, they would be more likely to choke than lick the spoon for which they would be reprimanded. 
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #108 on: October 24, 2018, 02:24:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on October 23, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
    Actually Ladislaus, easterners commune from birth, the exception is the most latinized like maronites.
    Eastern Catholic churches were required to conform to Latin Rite practice of no communion for infants till they had reached the proper age, till Vatican II, the false council, changed everything. Therefore, any Eastern Catholic that is allowing their infants to receive communion, is following Vatican II church. Moreover, Catholics were not allowed to switch rites at their own pleasure like many Catholics do today, that too is a Vatican II thing. Both are following a false council because it suits them.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #109 on: October 24, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 24, 2018, 02:24:57 PM
    Eastern Catholic churches were required to conform to Latin Rite practice of no communion for infants till they had reached the proper age, till Vatican II, the false council, changed everything. Therefore, any Eastern Catholic that is allowing their infants to receive communion, is following Vatican II church. Moreover, Catholics were not allowed to switch rites at their own pleasure like many Catholics do today, that too is a Vatican II thing. Both are following a false council because it suits them.

    I have heard that they had gone back and forth on this particular question over the centuries.
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    Online Mithrandylan

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #110 on: October 24, 2018, 02:46:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 24, 2018, 02:24:57 PM
    Eastern Catholic churches were required to conform to Latin Rite practice of no communion for infants till they had reached the proper age, till Vatican II, the false council, changed everything. Therefore, any Eastern Catholic that is allowing their infants to receive communion, is following Vatican II church. Moreover, Catholics were not allowed to switch rites at their own pleasure like many Catholics do today, that too is a Vatican II thing. Both are following a false council because it suits them.
    .
    I would be interested to see this proved.  I see that Wikipedia says this, but provides no sources, and is a bit editorialized on the point.  The 1917 CIC literally opens by asserting that the code does not affect Eastern disciplines except where it does by its very nature or by explicit mention.  Which would lead me to suspect that it doesn't tell the Eastern Churches one thing or another regarding infant communion; maybe something else does, but not the CIC.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #111 on: October 24, 2018, 03:38:16 PM »
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    • Theoretically, I'm in favor of Holy Communion for infants and those who have not reached the age of reason.  They can receive an increase in sanctifying grace ex opere operato if they are in a state of grace, and the presumption is that they are until they have reached the age of reason.  I've just seen a fair bit of the abuse, as I described earlier, that's extremely disedifying and disrespectful to the Blessed Sacrament in the practical order.  Perhaps additional regulations need to be in place to govern the practice.  I've also seen a good amount of mis-handling of the Communion cloth that's used in lieu of a metal paten, so much so that one Byzantine priest I knew abandoned the cloth and used a paten.  This cloth is supposed to catch fragments of the Blessed Sacrament, but then it's handled roughly and badly as soon as Communion ends so that most of the particles so caught would be scattered everywhere.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #112 on: October 24, 2018, 03:43:43 PM »
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    • Overall, I like the Catholic Eastern Rites, but I've seen a fair bit of "sloppiness" that needs to be corrected.  Also, Eastern Catholics rarely go to Confession, so much so that one Ukrainian priest preaches about and promotes Confession nearly every week ... to no avail.  There's a prayer everyone recites before Communion that is kind of an Act of Contrition, and I have this feeling that most people think it renders them worthy to receive even if they're not in a state of grace.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #113 on: October 24, 2018, 05:07:40 PM »
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    • In the Antiochian tradition confession is required during the fasts. ie: Nineveh, Great Lent, Apostles Fast, Soonyno ( Assumption) fast and Christmas Fast. Many eastern catholics have spiritual fathers who do not belong to the parishes. Also as particular to Antiochian tradition we do have an actual absolution as part of the liturgy( which Rome permits) ie: Maronites on Holy Saturday. This absolution would of course not be valid for those of Latin or Constantinoples faithful per existing canons. The Indian Orthodox publish that confession is needed so non attendance at confession seems to be a result of Rome being lax since it is the most influential church still.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #114 on: October 24, 2018, 06:20:07 PM »
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    • The notion of not changing rites is an erroneous notion about Benedict XIV encyclical, it was about Catholic faithful living in greek areas of Italy and Greece who were attending ORTHODOX services and attempting to change Churches because of an accord between Rome and Greece that did not have anything to do with intercommunion. Latins were using the accord and good will to gain favor of the locals and pretending they were able to attend Orthodox services without prejudice without getting Roman approval giving the appearance that you could change to Orthodoxy. This is why the encyclical was written. It is true that traditionally that easterners were forbidden to join the Latin Church by Leo XIII because of the small numbers of Eastern Catholics
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #115 on: October 24, 2018, 06:43:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on October 24, 2018, 06:20:07 PM
    The notion of not changing rites is an erroneous notion about Benedict XIV encyclical, it was about Catholic faithful living in greek areas of Italy and Greece who were attending ORTHODOX services and attempting to change Churches because of an accord between Rome and Greece that did not have anything to do with intercommunion. Latins were using the accord and good will to gain favor of the locals and pretending they were able to attend Orthodox services without prejudice without getting Roman approval giving the appearance that you could change to Orthodoxy. This is why the encyclical was written. It is true that traditionally that easterners were forbidden to join the Latin Church by Leo XIII because of the small numbers of Eastern Catholics
    I think you are winging just about everything you write, since few here know anything about Eastern Rites. Latin Rite Catholics would have had to get special permission from their bishop to switch rites, say if they were moving somewhere where there was no other choice. It rarely happened. 

    "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king". .
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #116 on: October 24, 2018, 06:49:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 24, 2018, 03:43:43 PM
    …. Eastern Catholics rarely go to Confession, so much so that one Ukrainian priest preaches about and promotes Confession nearly every week ... to no avail.  
    It is called sacrilege, it is also a practice in the counterfeit Vatican II church.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #117 on: October 24, 2018, 08:07:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 24, 2018, 06:43:03 PM
    I think you are winging just about everything you write, since few here know anything about Eastern Rites. Latin Rite Catholics would have had to get special permission from their bishop to switch rites, say if they were moving somewhere where there was no other choice. It rarely happened.

    "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king". .

    Yes, you needed permission to formally/canonically switch Rites, but you could assist at an Eastern Rite Liturgy whenever you felt inclined to, and vice versa.  It was more readily granted to switch from Latin to Eastern (in the West at least), since the Eastern Catholics were in such a minority.  Other way was much more difficult, since the Latin Rite did not want to cannibalize the Eastern Rite Catholics.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #118 on: October 24, 2018, 08:08:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 24, 2018, 06:49:32 PM
    It is called sacrilege, it is also a practice in the counterfeit Vatican II church.

    I suspect that this goes back to long before Vatican II in the Eastern Rites.  I believe that it's more due to poor catechesis regarding the Sacraments.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Tattoos are a mortal sin
    « Reply #119 on: October 24, 2018, 11:00:42 PM »
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    • Not winging it, spent the last 30 years alternating attendance at Eastern Liturgies, and after three years of Traditional Monastic formation, decided that the ancient Antiochian traditions were the closest thing to traditional monasticism still in existence. :)
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    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا
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