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Author Topic: Tattoo , Ear Piercing  (Read 8460 times)

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Offline Binechi

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Tattoo , Ear Piercing
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2013, 02:37:34 PM »
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  • Ambrose , thank you for your research on Leviticus 19.28    .  As I understand it from the commentary, God is forbidding us emulate the Infidels, in the destructing or marking of the body , both in the living and the dead.  

    In your estimation where do we go from here.  How do we connect the dots as to finding out if the Church has put down in writing what it teaches on body piercing , or the marking by tattoos.

     
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    Priests are trained in moral theology in seminary, not junior seminary which is grade 9-12.  
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    The (9-12)was just a number I thru out there for number of theology courses the priests were required to complete in the Semenary.  Wasn t sure of the exact number.  Sorry to confuse you

    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #46 on: July 18, 2013, 10:43:25 PM »
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  • Quote
    Quote from: Director
    Ambrose , thank you for your research on Leviticus 19.28    .  As I understand it from the commentary, God is forbidding us emulate the Infidels, in the destructing or marking of the body , both in the living and the dead.  

    In your estimation where do we go from here.  How do we connect the dots as to finding out if the Church has put down in writing what it teaches on body piercing , or the marking by tattoos.

     
    Quote
    Priests are trained in moral theology in seminary, not junior seminary which is grade 9-12.  
    Quote


    The (9-12)was just a number I thru out there for number of theology courses the priests were required to complete in the Semenary.  Wasn t sure of the exact number.  Sorry to confuse you

    --------------------------

    I do to see where to go from here.  There is no specific prohibition against tattooing per se, so it is not the tattoo but the reason for the tattoo that matters.  Is it vanity?  Is it immodesty?  Is it due to a belief in false gods?  

    If it is not due to a bad motive, then I do not see the sin in it.  If it were a sin, then it would be easy to find the subject among the moralists.  Tattooing and ear piercing has been around for a long time, and yet no moralist that I am aware of even addresses it.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ursus

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    « Reply #47 on: July 19, 2013, 02:28:32 AM »
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  • Tattoos are something I detest and feel uncomfortable around them.

    Most tattoos are done for vanity. They're a symbol past and present of people who engage in immoral behavior. They indicate impetuousness, for the moment, without thinking of long term consequences. Most often, people get them just as something "cool." Marked for life with some stupid cartoon.

    They're very common amongst low income people and their location, neck lower arms, hands etc. cannot be hidden. It also costs them money that could be better spent elsewhere. Their career options will be limited in the future.

    There are no laws to protect those who have ink. You can be discriminated with employers for it.

     :soapbox:

    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #48 on: July 19, 2013, 03:18:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ursus
    Tattoos are something I detest and feel uncomfortable around them.

    Most tattoos are done for vanity. They're a symbol past and present of people who engage in immoral behavior. They indicate impetuousness, for the moment, without thinking of long term consequences. Most often, people get them just as something "cool." Marked for life with some stupid cartoon.

    They're very common amongst low income people and their location, neck lower arms, hands etc. cannot be hidden. It also costs them money that could be better spent elsewhere. Their career options will be limited in the future.

    There are no laws to protect those who have ink. You can be discriminated with employers for it.

     :soapbox:


    I detest them too, but the question posed is whether or not it is a sin to have them.  I think they are ugly and gross, and most likely from a misguided vanity.

    I would not detest however the tattoos of the Crusaders.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #49 on: July 19, 2013, 06:48:54 AM »
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  • Upon doing a little research by way of Google under the titles of "What is the history of tattoos , and What is the history of ear piercing".  I came up with some interesting items.
    Now none of this do I personally hold to , (as it is not with Church approval),  but in light of the subjects we are discussing, feel it relative to the cause , if you will ? (a cautionary note if you go to any of these sites, some have gross pic s of body parts etc.)
     
    Tattoos and ear piercing have been around for along time , as we all know, but for a variety of different reasons. One of the more interesting notes , is the development of an "Erasable" tattoo, by laser, developed in 2006
     
    Ear Piercing - Earliest Civilizations
     
    Pierced ears and earrings for pierced ears have been found on every continent throughout history. Evidence from the earliest civilizations in the Middle East show that pierced ears were worn at least six thousand years ago, but given the popularity of pierced ears in non state-level societies, they certainly must predate the archaeological record. Multiple ear piercings were used in some cultures, such as ancient Mesopotamia, pre-Colombian Meso-America, and the Greco-Roman world. Many cultures have also stretched the ear holes and worn earplugs. Earplugs were worn by ancient Egyptians, Mayans, and Aztecs, by the Chinese, as well as by traditional cultures around the world.

     Pierced ears have primarily been used as a form of adornment, and, for cultures which carry wealth in the form of jewelry, as a form of displaying wealth as well, such as among nomadic tribes like the Fulani of West Africa, the Tuareg of the Sahara, and the Bedouins of the Sinai Peninsula. The types of earrings worn also have been, in many cultures, an indication of rank and status, and some societies as well pierce the ears for religious purposes or magical purposes; in some societies, spirits are thought to enter the body through the ear, but the wearing of earrings repels them. Among many Northwest Coast Indians, such as the Tlingit, ear piercing is used to mark individual rank. Because paying for an ear piercing was costly, the number of holes in one's ear show the amount of wealth in one's family.

     In many cultures young girls have their ears pierced a short time after birth; in some communities in India, Hindus pierce a girl's ears and nose twelve days after birth when she is given her name. The Tchikrin of central Brazil pierced boys' and girls' ears at birth, and immediately inserted wooden earplugs, which would be exchanged as the ear holes grew larger.
       

    In other societies, ears are pierced as part of a rite of passage, usually at adolescence, or just prior to marriage. In Borneo, for example, parents pierce a child's ears to represent the child's dependence on the parents. The Fulani also use ear piercing to mark the life stages of their members. The Bible mentions pierced ears and earrings in a number of places. From those references we know that earrings were worn by Hebrews as a form of adornment, and that gold earrings represented wealth, but also that slaves' ears were pierced as a mark of servitude; Exodus 21:5-6 tells that freed slaves who want to continue to serve their master could have their ears pierced in court as a sign of permanent service. Just as Roman Christians chose to use the stigma of tattooing to mark themselves as slaves of God, other Christians use pierced ears as a way to show this same commitment.

     Elsewhere in the Middle East, Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians all wore earrings, as a sign of beauty and wealth, and both men and women wore earrings. The finer the materials and the more elaborate the design, the wealthier the wearer. In Europe, the Middle Ages saw a decline in the wearing of earrings, but jewelry of all kinds became popular again in the Renaissance, when elite men and women wore earrings to demonstrate their status and wealth.

     With all that said however, I still hold to that Tattoos , body piercing in any way is a sign of paganism, that God forbids such things , although it has yet to be proven in any written Church Docuмent, at this time, on this tread.

    Note:  go back to the excellent response , by "A responder , off thread"














    Offline Miseremini

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    « Reply #50 on: July 20, 2013, 06:26:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: fidelismaris
    Quote from: Director

    Also I assume there are no tattoo d Souls in Heaven so for those who have done these things have they damnd themselves ?


    Quick point- tattoos are on the body, not the soul. There are no tattooed souls on Earth, either. Correct me if I'm wrong, here. Maybe in some crazy cult there are soul tattoos, but I'm not about to Google that.

    Alllso, we're Catholic, so we believe in Confession.

    I would think it most prudent that if one has the means, they should seek tattoo removal, just as one who repents from a surgery impeding the function of their reproductive system should repair the damage done to the best of their ability. Perhaps it is not as extreme of an example, but it is a truly penitent act.



     The tattoos you're talking about are on the body.  Souls in heaven don't have bodies yet.  When our souls are reunited with our bodies , they will be perfect and all imperfections will be gone.

    As for tattooed souls, perhaps not with a needle  but baptism and holy orders leave a permanent, indelible mark on the soul.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Miseremini

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    « Reply #51 on: July 20, 2013, 08:35:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    I have 4 tattoos acquired before my conversion.  My purpose:  pure vanity.  I wanted everyone to see how beautiful I was.  They are an embarrassment now, but also a source of reparation for me.

    Since I wear much more modest clothing today than I did before, no one can see my tattoos, save one that I can only cover when I wear boots.  It is a butterfly.  I tell people it is my symbol of my conversion from an ugly, prickly soul into a soul filled with hope in Our Lord and His promises.



    A tattoo doesn't seem appropriate as a symbol of conversion . Would you consider a life long penance of covering the butterfly with a band-aid,   (they come in all sizes) especially at church or school?
    Children are so observant.  I can just hear my grandkids,  "Mrs.------- is so nice and you like her and she has one"
    We have to try everything we can to set a good example.  Sometimes the past is best hidden.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #52 on: July 21, 2013, 12:24:44 PM »
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  •                
    For the purpose of keep this alive , A reroute from a past comment , from a off line responder.





         Tattoos and piercings  





     Tattooing and piercing is regarded in Sacred Scripture as a pagan practice:

    Leviticus 19:28: "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor shall you make in yourselves any figures or marks: I am the Lord"

     It should be considered as mutilation of the body in contravention of the Fifth Commandment. The fact that the tattoo may be of a religious object does not justify the practice. Exhibitionism is intrinsically un-Catholic, falling short of the virtue of humility. Would the Lord Jesus Christ have had a tattoo? The Blessed Virgin Mary? Of course not.  How do we know?  Because they would both have perfectly kept the law in all its points, including "nor shall you make in yourselves any figures or marks".

     There is another argument against the practice, which relates to the Fifth Commandment, which forbids unnecessary harming of one's body, the Temple of the Holy Ghost, as St. Paul calls it. Catholic moral theology teaches that by the Principle of Totality, a person is not permitted to authorize the mutilation of his own body except for the benefit of the whole body by the principle of totality. Mutilation of the body can be justified only on the supposition that it is necessary or useful toward obtaining some just physical benefit (as an amputation of a diseased leg to prevent the spread of gangrene).

     The practice of tattooing often involves an unnecessary medical risk of acquiring the dangerous virus Hepatitis C. This virus, once acquired through such practices as tattooing, can erupt virulently, or it can lie dormant in the body for twenty or more years after the tattooing incident. Hepatitis can destroy the liver and thus weaken the body until it dies in agony.

     You should not get a tattoo or piercing. The Bible is pretty clear on the matter:

    Leviticus 19:28: “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh, for the dead, neither shall you make in yourselves any figures or marks: I am the Lord.”

    1 Corinthians 3:16-17: "Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are."


    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #53 on: July 21, 2013, 08:33:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: CathMomof7
    I have 4 tattoos acquired before my conversion.  My purpose:  pure vanity.  I wanted everyone to see how beautiful I was.  They are an embarrassment now, but also a source of reparation for me.

    Since I wear much more modest clothing today than I did before, no one can see my tattoos, save one that I can only cover when I wear boots.  It is a butterfly.  I tell people it is my symbol of my conversion from an ugly, prickly soul into a soul filled with hope in Our Lord and His promises.



    A tattoo doesn't seem appropriate as a symbol of conversion . Would you consider a life long penance of covering the butterfly with a band-aid,   (they come in all sizes) especially at church or school?
    Children are so observant.  I can just hear my grandkids,  "Mrs.------- is so nice and you like her and she has one"
    We have to try everything we can to set a good example.  Sometimes the past is best hidden.


    No, I have not considered wearing a bandaid.  Why would I?  And while my butterfly tattoo is an embarrassment, I am not afraid of using it as an opportunity to discuss my conversion.

    We aren't a church full of perfect people, we are sinners.  Some of us have scars.  You can't hide everything and sometimes these are ways to show our children that God can change even the hardest heart.  Perhaps that's a better example than pretending we are all perfect.



    Offline Miseremini

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    « Reply #54 on: July 21, 2013, 10:52:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: CathMomof7
    I have 4 tattoos acquired before my conversion.  My purpose:  pure vanity.  I wanted everyone to see how beautiful I was.  They are an embarrassment now, but also a source of reparation for me.

    Since I wear much more modest clothing today than I did before, no one can see my tattoos, save one that I can only cover when I wear boots.  It is a butterfly.  I tell people it is my symbol of my conversion from an ugly, prickly soul into a soul filled with hope in Our Lord and His promises.



    A tattoo doesn't seem appropriate as a symbol of conversion . Would you consider a life long penance of covering the butterfly with a band-aid,   (they come in all sizes) especially at church or school?
    Children are so observant.  I can just hear my grandkids,  "Mrs.------- is so nice and you like her and she has one"
    We have to try everything we can to set a good example.  Sometimes the past is best hidden.


    No, I have not considered wearing a bandaid.  Why would I?  And while my butterfly tattoo is an embarrassment, I am not afraid of using it as an opportunity to discuss my conversion.

    We aren't a church full of perfect people, we are sinners.  Some of us have scars.  You can't hide everything and sometimes these are ways to show our children that God can change even the hardest heart.  Perhaps that's a better example than pretending we are all perfect.


    Originally you sounded like you wanted to cover it when you wore boots and now it sounds as if you are using it to attract attention so you can discuss your conversion.    You will never have the "opportunity to discuss my conversion" with everyone who sees it.  And many who do see it don't want to discuss it.  Humility is not pretending anything.  Flaunting past mistakes is still pride.
    Parents have enough examples to "show our children that God can change even the hardest heart" without it being flaunted at church.  You'll understand this better when you are further along in your conversion
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]