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Author Topic: Tattoo , Ear Piercing  (Read 8367 times)

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Offline Frances

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Tattoo , Ear Piercing
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2013, 02:41:04 PM »
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  •  :thinking:
    I have asked the question of a good priest.  I'll post his answer when I get it.

    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #31 on: July 17, 2013, 02:54:05 PM »
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  • Tks, .... please note the group when and if you get it.  Also Which Church Docuмent he might recommend to go to , to educate ourselves.
    D.


    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #32 on: July 17, 2013, 06:48:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    If trad Catholics can't even convince their children not to get tattoos or have piercings all over their bodies then they can't convince them to do anything.

    And if we have liberals defending these practices as being legitimate we have people who wish to destroy Catholic Tradition among us.

    I agree , If this thread has the effect of stopping that one person or one family of persons from getting one hideous tattoo, and Possibly their chance of eternity , it will have done its job.

    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #33 on: July 17, 2013, 07:03:40 PM »
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  •  :incense:
    Answer from a "Resistance" priest in the U.S.:--
    "For women ear piercing is no moral issue.  For men, yes.  Tattoos and body piercing are increasing in direct proportion with the return of paganism.  The answer is to strive for greater union with God, Sacraments, and obeying His Commandments."

    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #34 on: July 17, 2013, 08:39:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :incense:
    Answer from a "Resistance" priest in the U.S.:--
    "For women ear piercing is no moral issue.  For men, yes.  Tattoos and body piercing are increasing in direct proportion with the return of paganism.  The answer is to strive for greater union with God, Sacraments, and obeying His Commandments."


    "For women ear piercing is no moral issue. "  For men, yes."

    With all do Respect...

     What is the difference if its a man s or women s body that is being punctured ?.. My question on this is , what does the Church teach on this matter.

     
    Quote
    Tattoos and body piercing are increasing in direct proportion with the return of paganism.


    Again with all do respect...

     I think the point is made that the paganism of Tattoos and body piercing is dramatically on the rise, , but does that mean that they are OK,  Is this what the Church teaches.

     How about the body being the Temple of the Holy Ghost.  Is it ok, to mutilate and puncture it without consequences.  Is this pleasing to God. Can we stand before God, all full of tattoos and holes in our skin , and ask him to take us into his Kingdom

    Where does this fit in..... ?

    Leviticus 19:28: “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh, for the dead, neither shall you make in yourselves any figures or marks: I am the Lord.”

    1 Corinthians 3:16-17: "Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are."

    I don t know about you, but I still need answers...

    I think we need , or I need a Moral Theologists .  Does anyone know of one who can answer these questions ??


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #35 on: July 17, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »
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  • He didn't say ear piercing was good or bad for women just that it wasn't morally wrong, which I think is correct, since it is within normal standards of decorum.

    I will say this: my mother never had her ears pierced until middle age.


    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #36 on: July 17, 2013, 09:14:41 PM »
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  • Quote
    I think we need , or I need a Moral Theologists .  Does anyone know of one who can answer these questions ??


    You are right in your search to look to the moralists.  Moral theology is something that is for the trained and commissioned experts who work under the supervision of the authorities of the Church.

    Regarding scripture verses, it is imperative to read Catholic commentaries and not draw any immediate conclusions.  

    I will try to look this up or you, but it may not be in the books I have.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #37 on: July 17, 2013, 10:17:46 PM »
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  • Director, you don't seem to understand that we are all sinners, tattooed or otherwise, and that sin can be forgiven.  

    A person might have a tattoo in their former life of not knowing Our Lord Jesus Christ, but then they come to know and follow Him and live an exemplary life, doing much fasting, penance and works of charity. The tattoo never goes away but the heart is purified with God's grace.

    In a similar way, a person might be a murderer, then he might repent and confess his sins and live a life very much like the aforesaid tattooed person, trying his best to make reparation for his bad deed. Just as a person can never undo a tattoo, he can never undo the murder,  and none of us can ever undo our sins. We make the best form of reparation possible and depend on God's mercy.

    Do you believe that either of these may eventually make it into Heaven?

    Regarding "What is the Catholic teaching on the subject today from the clergy of the three promenate Traditional Groups , SSPX, SSPV, CMRI.

    If you are wanting what the Church teaching on the subject is today, you will not get it, in light of the present crisis in authority and teaching. I cannot see the pope coming up with anything of the kind.

    Frances has supplied what one "resistance" priest has said, but
    the resistance is not the Church.
    In like many SSPX is not the Church
    CMRI is not the Church
    SSPV is not the Church.

    We all agree, as far as I can see, that tattooing is wrong. Those who get tattooed, I sense, are looking for some identity that they do not have. Once they will find their identity in Our Lord Jesus Christ as the ultimate purpose of their existence, they will never need a tattoo ever again. Maybe CathMom can give her thoughts on my theory.

    A comment on Leviticus 19:28: “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh, for the dead....”

    I believe that this does not refer to ear piercing but to an altogether different phenomenon. You see some primitive cultures, as a form of mourning and expressing their grief, actually cut their bodoes. I have personally witnessed such behaviour in Ausralian aborigines and I guess there must be other groups who act in a similar manner, for the dead.


    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline fidelismaris

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    « Reply #38 on: July 17, 2013, 11:35:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Director

    Also I assume there are no tattoo d Souls in Heaven so for those who have done these things have they damnd themselves ?


    Quick point- tattoos are on the body, not the soul. There are no tattooed souls on Earth, either. Correct me if I'm wrong, here. Maybe in some crazy cult there are soul tattoos, but I'm not about to Google that.

    Alllso, we're Catholic, so we believe in Confession.

    I would think it most prudent that if one has the means, they should seek tattoo removal, just as one who repents from a surgery impeding the function of their reproductive system should repair the damage done to the best of their ability. Perhaps it is not as extreme of an example, but it is a truly penitent act.

    Offline Binechi

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    « Reply #39 on: July 18, 2013, 08:08:32 AM »
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  • [




    Quote
    Regarding "What is the Catholic teaching on the subject today from the clergy of the three promenate Traditional Groups , SSPX, SSPV, CMRI.

    If you are wanting what the Church teaching on the subject is today, you will not get it, in light of the present crisis in authority and teaching. I cannot see the pope coming up with anything of the kind.

    Frances has supplied what one "resistance" priest has said, but
    the resistance is not the Church.
    In like many SSPX is not the Church
    CMRI is not the Church
    SSPV is not the Church.


    So not to get off the main subject , which is , What does the Church teach on ear piercing and Tattoos,  the insertions above will be addressed.  

    The Preist s are our Spirtual Fathers here on Earth.  We look for them to instruct us in the Faith to save our Souls.

    Now granted in this Unusual time in Church History , there is confusion into what the Church teaches now, and what it has always taught, amongst the Three main groups, to the point that one group will refuse Holy Communion to a Baptised Catholic, in the State of Grace.

    The point being since one puts his Salvation in the hand s of one of these groups, he is accenting to their beliefs of Church teachings.

    It would be only natural , if a person who had a son or daughter wanted to adhere to one of these pagan rituals, that a Catholic Father would object, get confirmation from his Priest, and if the Priest hadn t the knowledge , to go to his Bishop.

    Case in point ear piercing, tattoos

    A Priest is trained and educated  in the Seminaries in many Theologies, (I believe 9 to12), one of which is Moral Theology.
     
    This being the reason I might ask those who belong to one of the groups to ask their Priest, as I am sure he has run across this in his studies, and has access to the books, which most of us do not.

    This thread is not about chastising those who have these markings , or being judgemental , but again ,

    “What does the Church teach on Tattoos and Piercing of the Body. “ Is it being enforced , not enforced, Pleasing to God , not Pleasing to God.

    "Those who are not with me , are against me"




    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #40 on: July 18, 2013, 09:48:04 AM »
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  • I would not allow a daughter to get her ears pierced.


    Offline Ian

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    « Reply #41 on: July 18, 2013, 09:49:21 AM »
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  •  I recently met a nun, in full habit but with no socks. Her feet were covered in tattoos. I could see places on her face were piercings had closed up. People change.

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #42 on: July 18, 2013, 10:53:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ian
    I recently met a nun, in full habit but with no socks. Her feet were covered in tattoos. I could see places on her face were piercings had closed up. People change.
    People do but that doesn't mean we give the OK for children living in our home to mutilate their bodies.

    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #43 on: July 18, 2013, 11:39:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: Ian
    I recently met a nun, in full habit but with no socks. Her feet were covered in tattoos. I could see places on her face were piercings had closed up. People change.
    People do but that doesn't mean we give the OK for children living in our home to mutilate their bodies.


    Exactly.

    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #44 on: July 18, 2013, 12:59:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Director
    [




    Quote
    Regarding "What is the Catholic teaching on the subject today from the clergy of the three promenate Traditional Groups , SSPX, SSPV, CMRI.

    If you are wanting what the Church teaching on the subject is today, you will not get it, in light of the present crisis in authority and teaching. I cannot see the pope coming up with anything of the kind.

    Frances has supplied what one "resistance" priest has said, but
    the resistance is not the Church.
    In like many SSPX is not the Church
    CMRI is not the Church
    SSPV is not the Church.


    So not to get off the main subject , which is , What does the Church teach on ear piercing and Tattoos,  the insertions above will be addressed.  

    The Preist s are our Spirtual Fathers here on Earth.  We look for them to instruct us in the Faith to save our Souls.

    Now granted in this Unusual time in Church History , there is confusion into what the Church teaches now, and what it has always taught, amongst the Three main groups, to the point that one group will refuse Holy Communion to a Baptised Catholic, in the State of Grace.

    The point being since one puts his Salvation in the hand s of one of these groups, he is accenting to their beliefs of Church teachings.

    It would be only natural , if a person who had a son or daughter wanted to adhere to one of these pagan rituals, that a Catholic Father would object, get confirmation from his Priest, and if the Priest hadn t the knowledge , to go to his Bishop.

    Case in point ear piercing, tattoos

    A Priest is trained and educated  in the Seminaries in many Theologies, (I believe 9 to12), one of which is Moral Theology.
     
    This being the reason I might ask those who belong to one of the groups to ask their Priest, as I am sure he has run across this in his studies, and has access to the books, which most of us do not.

    This thread is not about chastising those who have these markings , or being judgemental , but again ,

    “What does the Church teach on Tattoos and Piercing of the Body. “ Is it being enforced , not enforced, Pleasing to God , not Pleasing to God.

    "Those who are not with me , are against me"





    Priests are trained in moral theology in seminary, not junior seminary which is grade 9-12.  

    Moral theology can sometimes be simple.  It is obvious that one cannot murder and cannot bear false witness, but there are many other cases that are far more complex, as they require further education in order to grasp the principles involved.

    You cited Leviticus 19:28, but have you read the whole chapter or the commentaries?  Leviticus 19:27 states that "nor shall you cut your hair round-wise, nor shave your beard."  

    God is commanding us that we cannot imitate the infidels, He is not creating a universal law forbidding men to ever shave their beards.  Verse 28 follows along the same line, do not do things to imitate the faithless, their customs, and their rituals and beliefs in false gods.  

    The commentary on chapter 28:
    Quote

    Ver. 28. Dead. Adonis or Osiris; as if you were mourning for them, in which sense the former verse may be explained. At funerals it was customary to cut off the hair. Achilles and his soldiers did so at the death of Patroclus. (Homer) --- The Persians also cut the manes of their horses, to shew their grief for the loss of Masistius, (Herodotus ix. 24,) as Alexander did when Hephæstion died. (Plutarch) --- The Egyptians, Assyrians, &c., cut their hair on the like occasions, and the Hebrews did so too; whether they neglected this law, or it was rather designed only to hinder them from joining in a superstitious lamentation for some idol. They also cut their bodies, Genesis l, and Jeremias xli. 5. The pagans did so, intending thereby to appease the anger of the infernal deities: ut sanguine....inferis satisfaciant, (Varro, Servius): or to please the deceased. (Plutarch, de consol.) Thus Virgil represents Anna, Æneid iv.: Unguibus ora soror fædans & pectora pugnis. The Roman and Athenian laws restrained this cruelty of women towards themselves. But in Persia, the children and servants of great men still make an incision upon their arms, when their father or master dies. The women in Greece also observe a solemn mourning, with loud lamentations, tearing their cheeks and hair, and reciting the memorable actions of the deceased. The Christians and Jews of Syria inflict still more dangerous wounds upon themselves. The latter have always esteemed it lawful to adopt the customs of the nations with whom they lived, provided they were not attended with superstition; which makes us conclude, that what Moses here forbids, was done in honour of some idol. --- Marks, made with a hot iron, representing false gods, as if to declare that they would serve them for ever. (Philo) --- The Assyrians had generally such characters upon their bodies. Philopator ordered the converts from the Jєωιѕн religion to be marked with ivy, in honour of Bacchus. (3 Macchabees) Theodoret (q. 18,) mentions, that the pagans were accustomed to cut their cheeks, and to prick themselves with needles, infusing some black matter, out of respect for the dead, and for demons. Allusion is made to these customs, Apocalypse xiii. 16, and Isaias xlix. 15. Christians have sometimes marked their arms with the cross, or name of Jesus. (Procopius in Isai. xliv. 5.) (Calmet) --- As St. Jane Frances de Chantal did her breast. (Breviary, August 21.) Nomen pectori insculpsit. St. Paul says, I bear the marks of the Lord Jesus in my body, Galatians vi. 17. The Church historians relate, that St. Francis and St. Catharine received miraculously the prints of his wounds. (Haydock)




    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic