Hello friends quick question..We go to lakes and beaches during the week and other times when there are few people. My girls wear bathing suits like in the picture and the boys wear long shorts and rash guards. If I were invited to a non-traditionalist house for a pool party, I would skip it. It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people. Best to avoid it.
I don’t normally take my children to public pools for modesty’s sake, but what if pagan friends or family members invite us over for a swim day at their homes?
I do have worries about other women and children attending and what their attire could be.
(We have a pool at home and cover up with shorts and tees)
Does anyone else here run into this issue as well?
How do you respond if you have encountered this?
Do you inform them of your modesty concerns, or just decline the invites altogether?
I do have Traditional Catholic friends and family and they would think me silly for asking (I know this because public pools aren’t a concern for them)
We go to lakes and beaches during the week and other times when there are few people. My girls wear bathing suits like in the picture and the boys wear long shorts and rash guards. If I were invited to a non-traditionalist house for a pool party, I would skip it. It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people. Best to avoid it.Thank you tradican! Great example of modest suits by the way.
(https://www.ou.org/life/files/modest-swimwear.jpg)
The pool invites are more concerning for us though because they are family and friends close to us and may not understand why we are declining. I may have to explain and it sounds so awkward in my head.
Just curious how people dealt with this issue 60 years ago when Church was seemingly normal.
I know an SSPX priest who was mocked by several of his brother priests for objecting to a 16 year-old girl taking a summer job as a lifeguard.
Good old Christopher West of Novus Ordo fame, a notorious theology of the body perv, used to mock saints who would go around keeping strict custody of the eyes ... and also considered the dunking of the Easter Vigil candle into the holy water to be symbolic for the sɛҳuąƖ act.I didn't know this about Christopher West. It's good to be aware of such things.
I know what you mean about "Trads not having a problem with public beaches".Yes. I agree with you here Matthew. I don't think we should be going to public beaches or swimming pools where people wear modern bathing suits. They are immodest. Perhaps if everyone wore modest bathing suits like burquinis. Would it be okay to allow for public beaches or swimming pools that are segregated by sex so the temptations to lust would be mostly eliminated (except for the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs)?
a waterpark with people running around naked like usual, wearing swimwear that left nothing to the imagination.
I was scandalized.
Would it be okay to allow for public beaches or swimming pools that are segregated by sex so the temptations to lust would be mostly eliminated (except for the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs)?
I don't see why not. It's not forbidden for men to shower with other men and be half naked around them in locker rooms. Or for women among other women.Yes, this is what I agree with. But I asked the question because in the past someone suggested that even segregated public beaches would not be okay because immodesty is still immodest even if not witnessed by the other sex. And then there is the opinion of the holy Cure of Ars that even babies should not remain undressed for very long even when they are alone with their mothers because their nakedness would offend their guardian angels. So perhaps even a sex-segregated beach would offend the guardian angels of those who would go there.
And then there is the opinion of the holy Cure of Ars that even babies should not remain undressed for very long even when they are alone with their mothers because their nakedness would offend their guardian angels. So perhaps even a sex-segregated beach would offend the guardian angels of those who would go there.In the world, there has been a persistent heresy that the human body (and all that pertains to it, such as eating, sex, etc.) is evil, and/or that the "devil god" created the material world, and the "good god" made the spiritual world.
...When I was in the convent, yes, there were many rules addressing modesty in attire.
Note that at Traditional seminaries, such as those run by the SSPX, the Rule states that men are to be modestly covered in the hallways, on the way to shower, etc. I quote: "A seminary is not a barracks". If there were no issue with men seeing other men without shirts, or even naked, why would the SSPX have this rule for its seminaries?
I know an SSPX priest who was mocked by several of his brother priests for objecting to a 16 year-old girl taking a summer job as a lifeguard.Indeed. He fights a lonely battle.
The Cure of Ars did speak about it being a mortal sin to sleep with a child over 5 years old, but that was also because it was assumed that the married couple would be having sex in that bed, and the 5 year old wouldn't be oblivious -- he would be self-aware enough to remember it, think about it later, etc. A 5 year old is no longer a baby.You butchered that example a bit. klasG4e posted this a few weeks ago:
I actually ran into this question and went to counsel from a great SSPX priest about this recently. One has to use his best judgement in these things. It is hard because I have a nephew I promised to take to the lake and summer is on us. Then there are the water parks. I love water parks and going with kids is so much fun. We have a pool in my apartment complex and the women who go to it dress no different than if they were shopping in wal-mart so I see no problem if I use the criteria that Ladislaus jotted out. I think his 3 points were great to go by.Yes but you have to go to Walmart to feed yourself, you don't have to go to a pool. There is a difference.
I actually ran into this question and went to counsel from a great SSPX priest about this recently. One has to use his best judgement in these things. It is hard because I have a nephew I promised to take to the lake and summer is on us. Then there are the water parks. I love water parks and going with kids is so much fun. We have a pool in my apartment complex and the women who go to it dress no different than if they were shopping in wal-mart so I see no problem if I use the criteria that Ladislaus jotted out. I think his 3 points were great to go by.If that great SSPX priest told you you can go to water parks, he is an idiot (and will have your sins upon his conscience the first time you think yourself strong, and fall).
If that great SSPX priest told you you can go to water parks, he is an idiot (and will have your sins upon his conscience the first time you think yourself strong, and fall).He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.
That's like saying you can go to the porno shop, as long as you keep custody of the eyes.
He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know."He who loves danger shall perish in it."
He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.Not even you believe that.
OK, how about this?
Brooklyn city councilman announces sex-segregated beach days
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-segregated-beach-20180606-story.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-segregated-beach-20180606-story.html)
A Brooklyn city lawmaker is sponsoring sex-segregated beach days to give his Jєωιѕн and Muslim constituents an opportunity to enjoy the seaside.
City Councilman Chaim Deutsch announced the first ever “Southern Brooklyn Beach Day,” with separate dates for men and women by the sandy spot behind Kingsborough Community College.
Obviously not a Traditional Catholic but we agree with him on the modesty issue. Can/should Trads petition for the same type of treatment?
"He who loves danger shall perish in it."ooh!
I don't think there is such a thing as a truly "modest" swimming outfit; so I believe sex-segregated beaches are a wonderful idea. There are many activities which are best for women to be separated from the men.Perhaps the Hassidic Jews protect their women, but Moslems do not. They only pretend to do so.
Swimming is one of them.
What is alarming to me is that the Hassidic Jews and the Moslems do a much better job in controlling and protecting their women; whereas the Christians have failed epically in doing so for many years.
He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.Even if what you say here is true, I'd still be concerned on at least two fronts:
Even if what you say here is true, I'd still be concerned on at least two fronts:Lately, the news about water parks and public and hotel swimming pools is not good as these waters are contaminated. Even lakes and rivers are often contaminated. People visiting Hawaii should be very careful due to the parasites contaminating the fresh water lakes and rivers there.
1. Can you guarantee the same lack of temptations is true for the other people accompanying you?
2. If you're taking little kids, how are you going to explain that it was OK when they were 5, but when they're older they aren't allowed to go.
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When you have something like a water park that's a bad idea 90% of the time, it's not really worth carving out a few exceptions and opening the door to forming young adults who will always think themselves to be the exception.
You are right when you say that many trads do not see swimming pools and beaches as a problem regarding modesty; and this attitude does not only exist among lay people, but among some of our priests.If men shouldn't be bare chested to not tempt women, then what do you think of crucifixes? And even ignoring those, the Vatican is full of statues and paintings of topless men at work or whatever else.
The last time I went to Fatima, I had a conversation with a trad priest about the issue of swimming pools, and he answered something like this: "I have never thought about that, it does not seem to be a real problem; when you go to a swimming pool, you go to swim, not to remain outside the water. It is not the same thing as beaches".
This distinction is weird since people spend much time outside the water in swimming pools, and the purpose of many is to hit on each other, not to swim! I don't see how one can remain in a state of grace while being surrounded of naked men/women, some of whom are very attractive.
I asked the same priest whether it is a sin for a man to run bare chested, and he answered: "No, there is no problem with that. It is a custom for men to do that, or to work bare chested in villages. Men look at women, but women do not look at men. Men's body is not as much attractive."
When I was a pagan average Joe, I used to run bare chested, and I was muscled, with good proportions and a beautiful body; well, I can say that women looked at me... One day there were some teens walking in my village (they were at a wedding), and when they saw me down the street, they immediately chuckled without shame, because I was ripped. Therefore it is not true to claim that women do not look at men.
Some weeks ago I was talking with a priest who defended corridas, and I told him that the toreadors wore immodest and slinky clothes that unveiled their genitals. At that moment a girl said: "then what shoud we say about ballet dancers?". In other words, it was not obvious for her that it is a sin to dress like that, even for sports!
There is no way a man can see such a performance without comitting a mortal sin, or he is a castrato. It is simply impossible to see those sumptuous women in their diabolical attire without being strongly tempted.
If men shouldn't be bare chested to not tempt women, then what do you think of crucifixes?Are you serious? Jesus was stripped of his clothing; a very demeaning action meant to humiliate and degrade Him. The Crucifix should not be spoken of in such a way.
It's not forbidden for men to shower with other men and be half naked around them in locker rooms. Or for women among other women..
It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people.
Are you serious? Jesus was stripped of his clothing; a very demeaning action meant to humiliate and degrade Him. The Crucifix should not be spoken of in such a way.He was saying it's not alright to depict topless men. Well, pretty much every Catholic Church in the world has a big depiction of an almost naked man.
We go to lakes and beaches during the week and other times when there are few people. My girls wear bathing suits like in the picture and the boys wear long shorts and rash guards. If I were invited to a non-traditionalist house for a pool party, I would skip it. It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people. Best to avoid it.These suits are lovely and suitably modest but would stand out as objects drawing attention on any European beach.
(https://www.ou.org/life/files/modest-swimwear.jpg)
I would be interested to hear the view of husband’s and fathers on this.I would make a distinction between dressed going to the beach and dressed going shopping and dressed going to mass.
Should women and girls wear swimming costumes in mixed public places and what is acceptable ?
These suits are lovely and suitably modest but would stand out as objects drawing attention on any European beach.Drawing attention to modesty is good, it makes people see themselves for the first time, like when Eve and Adam covered up.
I would be interested to hear the view of husband’s and fathers on this.From a husband and father : One can't purposely seek out places where they know before hand that crowds are running around naked, like they do in crowded public beaches.
Should women and girls wear swimming costumes in mixed public places and what is acceptable ?
I would make a distinction between dressed going to the beach and dressed going shopping and dressed going to mass.One should dress modestly in public.
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Really? What about when they're ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, is it okay for them too?
Can anyone say that going swimming is a necessity of life? It's not like "simply never go swimming" is such a crazy, out-of-this-world suggestion like growing all your own food, producing all your own goods, surviving in the wilderness, etc..
You just simply: never go swimming! It's as easy as never going biking, never going canoeing, never going skydiving, etc.
Your "bucket list" might look like ____ compared to other worldly peoples' lists, but who cares? Catholics should only have ONE mandatory item on their bucket list, which is prioritized before all others:
[ ] Be found pleasing to God, blameless before Him, and in the State of Grace at the time of death
Everything else is just extra fluff.
If that item isn't checked off at death, it won't matter how many places on earth you've been, sites you've seen, experiences you've had, or anything like that. It will all be for naught if you find yourself in hell for eternity.
I'm sure heaven will be more fun than any swimming experience on earth.
Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except birth defects. Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.
It was either Pius IX or X who said mixed-gender swimming was an occasion to sin. Modernism has infected us all to such a degree that we don’t even realize it...What about siblings? My children are young enough yet that this hasn't become a major issue, but it's getting there quickly. What do other people do with their children?
This brings up another good question related to the topic:What about siblings? My children are young enough yet that this hasn't become a major issue, but it's getting there quickly. What do other people do with their children?I seriously doubt your children are incestuously attracted to one another. Just have them dress modestly regardless, even if there's no one else around it gets them used to it at the very least.
.= I like swimming in crowded public beaches.
So, by this standard, we'd be better off hiding in our closet all week and just showing up for Mass on Sunday, and then going home.
I seriously doubt your children are incestuously attracted to one another. Just have them dress modestly regardless, even if there's no one else around it gets them used to it at the very least.I agree I don’t think it’s likely that children will think in that way but equally we do have very strict rules (absorbed and acted on with no comment) about modesty at home and in public.