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Author Topic: Swimming pools  (Read 4331 times)

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Offline Carissima

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Swimming pools
« on: June 06, 2018, 08:37:07 AM »
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  • Hello friends quick question..

    I don’t normally take my children to public pools for modesty’s sake, but what if pagan friends or family members invite us over for a swim day at their homes?
    I do have worries about other women and children attending and what their attire could be.
    (We have a pool at home and cover up with rash guards and shorts)

    Does anyone else here run into this issue as well?
    How do you respond if you have encountered this?
    Do you inform them of your modesty concerns, or just decline the invites altogether?

    I do have Traditional Catholic friends and family and they would think me silly for asking (I know this because public pools aren’t a concern for them)


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 08:47:52 AM »
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  • Hello friends quick question..

    I don’t normally take my children to public pools for modesty’s sake, but what if pagan friends or family members invite us over for a swim day at their homes?
    I do have worries about other women and children attending and what their attire could be.
    (We have a pool at home and cover up with shorts and tees)

    Does anyone else here run into this issue as well?
    How do you respond if you have encountered this?
    Do you inform them of your modesty concerns, or just decline the invites altogether?

    I do have Traditional Catholic friends and family and they would think me silly for asking (I know this because public pools aren’t a concern for them)
    We go to lakes and beaches during the week and other times when there are few people. My girls wear  bathing suits like in the picture and the boys wear long shorts and rash guards. If I were invited to a non-traditionalist house for a pool party, I would skip it. It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people. Best to avoid it.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 09:14:43 AM »
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  • We go to lakes and beaches during the week and other times when there are few people. My girls wear  bathing suits like in the picture and the boys wear long shorts and rash guards. If I were invited to a non-traditionalist house for a pool party, I would skip it. It's one thing to go to a beach where there are few if any people, it is another to go to a beach where I know it is full of people. A pool party is like going to a beach that I know is full of people. Best to avoid it.

    Thank you tradican! Great example of modest suits by the way. 
    Sadly, most of my children have never been to the beach or a lake. I’ve not had the courage to go and risk running into a busy day there and make the drive for nothing. Kinda sad it’s this bad these days. 
    The pool invites are more concerning for us though because they are family and friends close to us and may not understand why we are declining. I may have to explain and it sounds so awkward in my head. I’m just not used to this I grew up Novus Ordo and it didn’t matter and now my trad friends and family don’t even see a problem. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 09:54:03 AM »
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  • Prudence is often very difficult, complex; there can be a lot of gray in the application of moral principles ... even if some Traditional Catholics who like to pretend that they live in ivory towers refuse to admit this.

    1) Avoid becoming a temptation to others.
    2) Avoid being tempted by others.
    3) Avoid scandal.

    What is the degree of temptation you might pose to others?  If you go and you are all modestly dressed, then you can avoid #1 completely.  You might even be a source of edification to others (vs. #3).

    What is the possibility that your children might BE tempted whether directly to impurity or generally disedified or receive bad example?

    Would there be scandal by participation at an event where there's rampant immodesty?  Would it be sending a signal that such things are OK in principle?

    Depending on the degrees of potential harm in these areas and potential offsetting considerations, one might attend or one might feel obliged to skip it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 09:57:12 AM »
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  • The pool invites are more concerning for us though because they are family and friends close to us and may not understand why we are declining. I may have to explain and it sounds so awkward in my head.

    Indeed it can be awkward, because you might as well be speaking Mandarin Chinese to them when you discuss the notion of "modesty" ... so much has the world become desensitized to it.  Again, depending on prudence, you can gently raise the subject.  But if you feel that they would reject this out right, you are not obliged in strict conscience to try correcting them.  It's all a judgment call.  Or else you might just use a mental reservation.  Plan to go out at the same time and then say that you already have plans for that time and can't make it.



    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 10:01:46 AM »
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  • I know what you mean about "Trads not having a problem with public beaches".

    There was a high profile Trad, an ex-seminarian, creator of many SSPX Seminary-themed videos, and currently an Accordista, who fell into this category. I knew him for several years because our Seminary experience (at S.T.A.S.) overlapped by a couple years.

    Before he cut off contact with me, he sent me one video -- of his young family (2 kids at the time) going to a waterpark. Not a private waterpark, or a waterpark reserved just for him -- no, a waterpark with people running around naked like usual, wearing swimwear that left nothing to the imagination.

    I was scandalized.

    I'm not surprised that he's an accordista today. It's also interesting that he doesn't like Bishop Williamson anymore (though he once made a popular "tribute" video to +Williamson, which even features himself!)
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    Offline monka966

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 10:20:03 AM »
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  • Just curious how people dealt with this issue 60 years ago when Church was seemingly normal.

    Offline X

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 10:22:06 AM »
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  • I know an SSPX priest who was mocked by several of his brother priests for objecting to a 16 year-old girl taking a summer job as a lifeguard.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #8 on: June 06, 2018, 11:56:41 AM »
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  • Just curious how people dealt with this issue 60 years ago when Church was seemingly normal.

    By 60 years ago, they were all just going with societal standards.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 11:59:19 AM »
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  • I know an SSPX priest who was mocked by several of his brother priests for objecting to a 16 year-old girl taking a summer job as a lifeguard.

    Ah, yes, the quality of this new generation of SSPX priests.  It would be one thing to disagree, based on various moral reasoning ... but to outright mock someone for holding this opinion.  It says volumes about these priests.

    Good old Christopher West of Novus Ordo fame, a notorious theology of the body perv, used to mock saints who would go around keeping strict custody of the eyes ... and also considered the dunking of the Easter Vigil candle into the holy water to be symbolic for the sɛҳuąƖ act.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #10 on: June 06, 2018, 12:05:24 PM »
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  • Good old Christopher West of Novus Ordo fame, a notorious theology of the body perv, used to mock saints who would go around keeping strict custody of the eyes ... and also considered the dunking of the Easter Vigil candle into the holy water to be symbolic for the sɛҳuąƖ act.
    I didn't know this about Christopher West. It's good to be aware of such things.
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 12:32:37 PM »
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  • I know what you mean about "Trads not having a problem with public beaches".

    a waterpark with people running around naked like usual, wearing swimwear that left nothing to the imagination.

    I was scandalized.
    Yes. I agree with you here Matthew. I don't think we should be going to public beaches or swimming pools where people wear modern bathing suits. They are immodest. Perhaps if everyone wore modest bathing suits like burquinis. Would it be okay to allow for public beaches or swimming pools that are segregated by sex so the temptations to lust would be mostly eliminated (except for the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs)?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #12 on: June 06, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »
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  • Would it be okay to allow for public beaches or swimming pools that are segregated by sex so the temptations to lust would be mostly eliminated (except for the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs)?

    I don't see why not.  It's not forbidden for men to shower with other men and be half naked around them in locker rooms.  Or for women among other women.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 01:18:47 PM »
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  • I don't see why not.  It's not forbidden for men to shower with other men and be half naked around them in locker rooms.  Or for women among other women.
    Yes, this is what I agree with. But I asked the question because in the past someone suggested that even segregated public beaches would not be okay because immodesty is still immodest even if not witnessed by the other sex. And then there is the opinion of the holy Cure of Ars that even babies should not remain undressed for very long even when they are alone with their mothers because their nakedness would offend their guardian angels. So perhaps even a sex-segregated beach would offend the guardian angels of those who would go there.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 01:35:21 PM »
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  • And then there is the opinion of the holy Cure of Ars that even babies should not remain undressed for very long even when they are alone with their mothers because their nakedness would offend their guardian angels. So perhaps even a sex-segregated beach would offend the guardian angels of those who would go there.
    In the world, there has been a persistent heresy that the human body (and all that pertains to it, such as eating, sex, etc.) is evil, and/or that the "devil god" created the material world, and the "good god" made the spiritual world.

    Manichaeism, Puritanism, Calvinism, Jansenism, Catholic "Jansenism Lite", Jansenist infection, or Jansenist tendencies (the Cure of Ars goes into one of these latter categories).

    Just like someday people will look back and see a tad bit of Liberalism in today's Saints, because it was in the air we breathe, likewise we can look back in hindsight and see such infection in the Cure of Ars.
    There is nothing "dirty" about the human body! Why would a naked baby offend a pure spirit (such as a Guardian Angel) or anyone else for that matter? Unless the human body were somehow dirty or evil. It's not!
    I assure you that ANGELS are not offended by anything that doesn't offend God Himself: namely, sin. And God Himself created the human body.

    Angels are offended by any sɛҳuąƖ sins, including exhibitionism, but they don't leave the room (or strongly want to) when a married couple have sex in a private setting!

    The Cure of Ars did speak about it being a mortal sin to sleep with a child over 5 years old, but that was also because it was assumed that the married couple would be having sex in that bed, and the 5 year old wouldn't be oblivious -- he would be self-aware enough to remember it, think about it later, etc. A 5 year old is no longer a baby.

    As for being naked in front of the same sex, it really comes down to modesty. I don't like parading around in front of a group of men OR men/women. I hated having to strip naked in the locker room every day in (public) middle school. It was my natural sense of modesty throwing a fit. And it should have! Our bodies are temples of the Holy Ghost; they deserve covering.

    What is one of the punishments given to prisoners, especially in situations of torture? They get stripped naked. Doing this strips them of all their dignity.

    Note that at Traditional seminaries, such as those run by the SSPX, the Rule states that men are to be modestly covered in the hallways, on the way to shower, etc. I quote: "A seminary is not a barracks". If there were no issue with men seeing other men without shirts, or even naked, why would the SSPX have this rule for its seminaries?
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