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Author Topic: Swimming pools  (Read 4337 times)

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Offline Maria Regina

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Re: Swimming pools
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2018, 05:03:04 PM »
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  • ...

    Note that at Traditional seminaries, such as those run by the SSPX, the Rule states that men are to be modestly covered in the hallways, on the way to shower, etc. I quote: "A seminary is not a barracks". If there were no issue with men seeing other men without shirts, or even naked, why would the SSPX have this rule for its seminaries?
    When I was in the convent, yes, there were many rules addressing modesty in attire.

    We were to be modestly dressed at all times. Whenever we visited the bathroom to take a shower or bath, we had to wear a bathrobe with a towel or veil covering our heads to and from the bathroom to our cells. We slept wearing a full length white  flannel nightgown with a veil (scarf).

    Our superiors only permitted us to use the swimming pool when students, lay professors, priests, and visitors would not see us. In other words, we could not use the pool when classes were in session or when students, professors, or visitors were on the university campus. Thus, I only remember visiting that pool a few times per year (during the one to two week summer break).  Oh, it was a solar minimum during that time, so the summers were very particularly cold, and the pool water was also cold. Our superiors would give us a choice: take a hike in the foothills surrounding the property, go on a picnic to a nearby private park, take a bus to visit benefactors who had large estates, or swim in the pool. Most of us did not like to swim in the cold pool.

    We were not allowed to sunbathe, and we were only permitted to swim for 30 minutes, then we had to shower and leave.  The sisters rotated the use of the pool. In other words, postulants could not swim with the novices, or the temporary professed, or finally professed sisters. Besides, we were a large class and the pool room had few private changing spaces.  When I entered the postulancy, there were 27 of us. In the novitiate, there were 15 novices.  
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline St Jude Thaddeus

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #16 on: June 06, 2018, 05:56:12 PM »
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  • OK, how about this?

    Brooklyn city councilman announces sex-segregated beach days

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-segregated-beach-20180606-story.html

    A Brooklyn city lawmaker is sponsoring sex-segregated beach days to give his Jєωιѕн and Muslim constituents an opportunity to enjoy the seaside.
    City Councilman Chaim Deutsch announced the first ever “Southern Brooklyn Beach Day,” with separate dates for men and women by the sandy spot behind Kingsborough Community College.

    Obviously not a Traditional Catholic but we agree with him on the modesty issue. Can/should Trads petition for the same type of treatment?

    St. Jude, who, disregarding the threats of the impious, courageously preached the doctrine of Christ,
    pray for us.


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #17 on: June 06, 2018, 09:01:25 PM »
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  • I know an SSPX priest who was mocked by several of his brother priests for objecting to a 16 year-old girl taking a summer job as a lifeguard.
    Indeed. He fights a lonely battle. 

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 09:45:24 PM »
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  • The Cure of Ars did speak about it being a mortal sin to sleep with a child over 5 years old, but that was also because it was assumed that the married couple would be having sex in that bed, and the 5 year old wouldn't be oblivious -- he would be self-aware enough to remember it, think about it later, etc. A 5 year old is no longer a baby.
    You butchered that example a bit. klasG4e posted this a few weeks ago:

    If you want the true message in its full integrity which the holy saint was conveying to his audience it is incuмbent upon you to read the quote in its proper and full context seen below between the asterisks. (The bold print is for your reading convenience.)  The passage from the sermon can be found at https://www.ecatholic2000.com/cts/untitled-628.shtml.
    **************************************************************************************************************************
    THE DUTIES OF THE MOTHER

    You should never have your children sleeping with you from the time they are two years old. If you do, you are committing a sin. The Church did not make this law without reason. You are bound to observe it.

    But, you will say to me, sometimes it is very cold or we are very tired. All that, my dear brethren, is not a reason which could excuse you in the eyes of God. Besides, when you married, you knew quite well that you would be obliged to fulfil certain responsibilities and obligations which are attached to the married state.

    Still, my dear brethren, there are fathers and mothers who are so little instructed in their religion or who are so indifferent to their duties that they will have sleeping with them children from fifteen to eighteen years of age, and often brothers and sisters together. Dear Lord! These poor fathers and mothers are in a terrible state of ignorance! But, you will say, we have no bed. You have no bed? But it would be better to let them sleep on a chair or in a neighbour's house. Dear Lord! The parents and children who damn themselves! But I will return to my subject and repeat to you that all the time that you allow your children to sleep with you after they have reached two years of age, you are offending God. How many mothers are there who have found their children smothered in the morning! How many mothers are present to whom this calamity has happened! And even if the good God has preserved you from it, you are no less guilty than if, every time your children slept with you, you found them smothered in the morning. You do not wish to agree with this, that is to say, you do not wish to correct it. We will wait until the Judgment, and you will be obliged to recognise what you do not wish to recognise today. There are mothers who have so little religion or, if you like, are so ignorant that if they want to show off their baby to some neighbouring mothers, they will show it to them naked. Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this. Should you not respect the presence of their Guardian Angels? It is the same thing when you are feeding them. Should any Christian mother allow her breasts to remain exposed? And even if they are covered, should she not turn aside to some place where there is no one else? Then there are others who, under the pretext of being foster-nurses, are continually only halfcovered. This is very disgusting. It is enough to make even the pagans blush. People are compelled to avoid their company in order not to expose themselves to evil thoughts.

    But, you will say to me, even if everyone is around, we must feed our children and change their diapers when they cry! And I shall tell you that when they cry, you ought to do everything you possibly can to quieten them but that it is a far better thing to let them cry a little than to offend God. Alas! How many mothers are the cause of evil glances, of bad thoughts, of immodest touches! Tell me, are these the Christian mothers who should be so reserved? Oh, dear God! What judgment should they expect? Others are so cruel that they let their children run around for the whole morning, during the summer, only half-dressed. Tell me, unhappy people, would it not be better for you to take your places among the savage beasts? Where is your religion, then, and your anxiety to do your duty? Alas! As far as religion is concerned, you have none. As for your duties, have you ever known what they were? That you have not, you give proof every day. Ah, poor children, how unfortunate you are to belong to such parents!
    **************************************************************************************************************************

    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 09:52:56 PM »
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  • I actually ran into this question and went to counsel from a great SSPX priest about this recently. One has to use his best judgement in these things. It is hard because I have a nephew I promised to take to the lake and summer is on us. Then there are the water parks. I love water parks and going with kids is so much fun. We have a pool in my apartment complex and the women who go to it dress no different than if they were shopping in wal-mart so I see no problem if I use the criteria that Ladislaus jotted out. I think his 3 points were great to go by.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline tdrev123

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #20 on: June 06, 2018, 09:57:47 PM »
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  • I actually ran into this question and went to counsel from a great SSPX priest about this recently. One has to use his best judgement in these things. It is hard because I have a nephew I promised to take to the lake and summer is on us. Then there are the water parks. I love water parks and going with kids is so much fun. We have a pool in my apartment complex and the women who go to it dress no different than if they were shopping in wal-mart so I see no problem if I use the criteria that Ladislaus jotted out. I think his 3 points were great to go by.
    Yes but you have to go to Walmart to feed yourself, you don't have to go to a pool.  There is a difference.  

    Offline X

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #21 on: June 06, 2018, 09:58:22 PM »
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  • I actually ran into this question and went to counsel from a great SSPX priest about this recently. One has to use his best judgement in these things. It is hard because I have a nephew I promised to take to the lake and summer is on us. Then there are the water parks. I love water parks and going with kids is so much fun. We have a pool in my apartment complex and the women who go to it dress no different than if they were shopping in wal-mart so I see no problem if I use the criteria that Ladislaus jotted out. I think his 3 points were great to go by.
    If that great SSPX priest told you you can go to water parks, he is an idiot (and will have your sins upon his conscience the first time you think yourself strong, and fall).
    That's like saying you can go to the porno shop, as long as you keep custody of the eyes.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #22 on: June 06, 2018, 10:38:44 PM »
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  • If that great SSPX priest told you you can go to water parks, he is an idiot (and will have your sins upon his conscience the first time you think yourself strong, and fall).
    That's like saying you can go to the porno shop, as long as you keep custody of the eyes.
    He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline X

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #23 on: June 06, 2018, 10:46:26 PM »
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  • He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.
    "He who loves danger shall perish in it."

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #24 on: June 06, 2018, 10:50:30 PM »
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  • He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.
    Not even you believe that. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #25 on: June 06, 2018, 10:52:25 PM »
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  • OK, how about this?

    Brooklyn city councilman announces sex-segregated beach days

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-segregated-beach-20180606-story.html

    A Brooklyn city lawmaker is sponsoring sex-segregated beach days to give his Jєωιѕн and Muslim constituents an opportunity to enjoy the seaside.
    City Councilman Chaim Deutsch announced the first ever “Southern Brooklyn Beach Day,” with separate dates for men and women by the sandy spot behind Kingsborough Community College.

    Obviously not a Traditional Catholic but we agree with him on the modesty issue. Can/should Trads petition for the same type of treatment?


    I don't think there is such a thing as a truly "modest" swimming outfit; so I believe sex-segregated beaches are a wonderful idea. There are many activities which are best for women to be separated from the men.

    Swimming is one of them.

    What is alarming to me is that the Hassidic Jєωs and the Moslems seem to do a much better job in controlling and protecting their women; whereas the Christians have failed epically in doing so for many years.

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #26 on: June 06, 2018, 10:56:00 PM »
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  • "He who loves danger shall perish in it."
    ooh!

    Although we do live in dangerous times, I wish it were not so. Certainly, I do not seek danger.

    Yet, ever since the fall of Adam, our time on this earth has been dangerous physically, mentally, and spiritually.
    Didn't the first son of Adam, Cain, kill his brother Abel?
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #27 on: June 06, 2018, 10:57:17 PM »
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  • I don't think there is such a thing as a truly "modest" swimming outfit; so I believe sex-segregated beaches are a wonderful idea. There are many activities which are best for women to be separated from the men.

    Swimming is one of them.

    What is alarming to me is that the Hassidic Jєωs and the Moslems do a much better job in controlling and protecting their women; whereas the Christians have failed epically in doing so for many years.
    Perhaps the Hassidic Jєωs protect their women, but Moslems do not. They only pretend to do so.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #28 on: June 06, 2018, 11:01:44 PM »
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  • He didn't. And I've been to a water park about seven times and never sinned while doing so...unless you're really a complete pervert, it's not super hard to control yourself, you know.
    Even if what you say here is true, I'd still be concerned on at least two fronts:
    1. Can you guarantee the same lack of temptations is true for the other people accompanying you?
    2. If you're taking little kids, how are you going to explain that it was OK when they were 5, but when they're older they aren't allowed to go.
    .
    When you have something like a water park that's a bad idea 90% of the time, it's not really worth carving out a few exceptions and opening the door to forming young adults who will always think themselves to be the exception.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Swimming pools
    « Reply #29 on: June 07, 2018, 01:54:59 AM »
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  • Even if what you say here is true, I'd still be concerned on at least two fronts:
    1. Can you guarantee the same lack of temptations is true for the other people accompanying you?
    2. If you're taking little kids, how are you going to explain that it was OK when they were 5, but when they're older they aren't allowed to go.
    .
    When you have something like a water park that's a bad idea 90% of the time, it's not really worth carving out a few exceptions and opening the door to forming young adults who will always think themselves to be the exception.
    Lately, the news about water parks and public and hotel swimming pools is not good as these waters are contaminated. Even lakes and rivers are often contaminated. People visiting Hawaii should be very careful due to the parasites contaminating the fresh water lakes and rivers there.
    Children and adults can get a painful intestinal infection caused by viruses and/or bacteria due to fecal matter in the pools, lakes, or rivers.. Worse, they can get a lethal brain parasite (protozoa) from these contaminated waters.

    JUST SAY NO.
    Lord have mercy.