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Offline Disputaciones

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Swimming before V2
« on: August 15, 2016, 03:17:21 PM »
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  • I know that some catholic schools had pools even before V2, so of course people were swimming in them and this was seen as alright.

    Does anyone know how they were required to dress or what the swim wear looked like? Were men, for example, allowed to swim shirtless and in very short shorts?

    Offline Amakusa

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    Swimming before V2
    « Reply #1 on: August 16, 2016, 04:11:19 AM »
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  • Swimming pools should not be mixed, and people should be dressed as decently as possible, especially women. As for open-air swimming pools, they should include a hedge, preventing people from outside to see the swimmers.
    The baptism of desire and the baptism of blood are dogmas of faith and truths of natural reason: see the article of the New Advent Encyclopedia on baptism, and Catholic Essentials. Those who deny the baptism of desire, the baptism of blood,


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Swimming before V2
    « Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 08:52:54 AM »
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  • I am not embarrassed in posting this photo of myself, my sister and a friend
    of the family who was an Altar Boy at the nearby Our Lady of the Lake Catholic
    Church.
    Photo taken at a pool near Crestline, Ca. in the Summer of 1952.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Swimming before V2
    « Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 05:39:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    I am not embarrassed in posting this photo of myself, my sister and a friend
    of the family who was an Altar Boy at the nearby Our Lady of the Lake Catholic
    Church.
    Photo taken at a pool near Crestline, Ca. in the Summer of 1952.


    So modesty doesn't apply if you go swimming or to the beach? Were 17+ year olds allowed to dress like that as well?

    Offline Degrelle

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    Swimming before V2
    « Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 12:37:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones

    So modesty doesn't apply if you go swimming or to the beach? Were 17+ year olds allowed to dress like that as well?


    Indeed, I've never understood the mindset that, if there's sand on the ground or it's a swimming pool, Catholic norms of modesty no longer apply.

    I think it is a mistake to look at practices from the 1950s and say "well, that was before Vatican II, so that means it must be okay." There was already a lot of worldliness at that time and Catholic culture had already taken a huge beating. In my view, the existence of swimming pools at Catholic schools may be an indication of some backsliding, although if mixed bathing were not allowed at those pools, many of the concerns are mitigated. Also, they would be private, and private bathing segregated by sex can't be compared to public and/or mixed bathing.

    It is my understanding that the Church has always condemned mixed bathing. Spain is a country that has a lot of beaches, but at least one of the prelates there, Cardinal Pla y Daniel, Archbishop of Toledo, stated in 1959:  "A special danger to morals is represented by public bathing at beaches...  Mixed bathing between men and women, which is nearly always a proximate occasion of sin and a scandal, must be avoided."

    Apparently the bishops of Spain together published in 1958 a document entitled "Norms of Christian Decency". I've been unable to find an English transcript of this document, and only found reference to it in some news articles talking about some "extremist" Catholic/Carlist group that was calling for segregated beaches and used this document to back up their position (cf. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3154546/Extreme-Catholic-group-Pedro-Men-ndez-Avil-s-urges-beaches-segregated-sex-northern-Spain-sins-flesh-avoided.html)

    The oft-quoted January 12, 1930, instruction of the Sacred Congregation of the Council, does not differentiate between whether there is sand on the ground or not.

    I think it is worth recalling the grave scandal that was occasioned when bathing dresses started appearing in the mid-late 1800s and women would go as deep as ankle-deep water at the time. It shows you how far we've come, and I think it gives an indication of what attitudes were like for centuries.

    I've studied a fair bit of Medieval life and culture and I've never found references to public bathing. There were lots of bath houses, but these were segregated and, again, it's private. Wealthier people bathed in private.  My impression is that on the whole, the culture of bathing was to get in and out relatively quickly, to get clean.  


    Offline Matto

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    « Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 01:58:29 PM »
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  • I believe public beaches and swimming pools should be segregated by sex so that the people who use them are not tempted to sins of lust. The last time I went to a public beach I had to confess it as a mortal sin. It was stupid of me to go there but I did and I spent most of the time trying to not stare at half-naked women.
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    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    « Reply #6 on: August 17, 2016, 03:13:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    I believe public beaches and swimming pools should be segregated by sex so that the people who use them are not tempted to sins of lust. The last time I went to a public beach I had to confess it as a mortal sin. It was stupid of me to go there but I did and I spent most of the time trying to not stare at half-naked women.


    Half-naked women?  

    More like 93% naked.  The last beach I visited had a lot of women who didn't even have their "glutimus maximus" completely covered.  

    The same standards apply at a lot of these Concilliar World Youth Day get-togethers.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 03:37:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    I believe public beaches and swimming pools should be segregated by sex so that the people who use them are not tempted to sins of lust. The last time I went to a public beach I had to confess it as a mortal sin. It was stupid of me to go there but I did and I spent most of the time trying to not stare at half-naked women.[/quote

    People in segregated pools would be exposed to temptations of lust.
    Bath houses were and are usually frequented by homosexuals.

    People should cover up because modesty and protection by the sun.  

    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 12:11:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Amakusa
    Swimming pools should not be mixed, and people should be dressed as decently as possible, especially women. As for open-air swimming pools, they should include a hedge, preventing people from outside to see the swimmers.





    While your opinion is nice and all, the guy is asking about what people did back then not what they should do.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
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    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 12:26:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    I am not embarrassed in posting this photo of myself, my sister and a friend
    of the family who was an Altar Boy at the nearby Our Lady of the Lake Catholic
    Church.
    Photo taken at a pool near Crestline, Ca. in the Summer of 1952.


    So modesty doesn't apply if you go swimming or to the beach? Were 17+ year olds allowed to dress like that as well?




    From what I can deduce using references from the 50s (media and popular culture) I think teenage boys were allowed to wear shorts without a shirt because it was just frowned upon to do so while not swimming. Like when one drives by the High School in summer you will see young men standing around shirtless and even mingling with young women. I sincerely doubt that this would be allowed by anyone in the 50s simply because it's disrespectful.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Swimming before V2
    « Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 03:22:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    I know that some catholic schools had pools even before V2, so of course people were swimming in them and this was seen as alright.

    Does anyone know how they were required to dress or what the swim wear looked like? Were men, for example, allowed to swim shirtless and in very short shorts?


    At Fatima 1917, Our Blessed Mother said:

     "More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason. "
    "Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much. " "Woe to
    women lacking in modesty".

    Those fashions came into existence like overnight in 1920+-. Young women, called Flappers, started wearing mini-skirts, low cut tops, two piece bathing suits, and whoring around town. If you watch old movies on Youtube, you will see the fashions and the brainwashing by Hollywood. This immodesty did not happen in the 1960's, it goes back to 1920+-.

    With regard to the beach, I have pictures of my grandfather in 1920-30's wearing what would be described today as Under Armor Boxerjock's. He looks ridiculous.

    People can be convinced of anything.

    Girl today: This is my underwear, I only let my "boyfriend" see me in these. This is my bathing suit that I wear to the beach.

    A thinking man (very rare): but your bathing suit is bigger than your underwear, you are naked in public, you are brainwashed.

    Girl Today: Oh, you are a crazy.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 07:37:16 PM »
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  •  When I was a youngster there was a women's only swimming pool at a Sydney beach suburb but that was the only one I'd ever heard of. Incidentally the nuns used to go swimming there is one piece bathers. That order is gone now for all practical purposes.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    « Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 09:49:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Last Tradhican
    Quote from: Disputaciones
    I know that some catholic schools had pools even before V2, so of course people were swimming in them and this was seen as alright.

    Does anyone know how they were required to dress or what the swim wear looked like? Were men, for example, allowed to swim shirtless and in very short shorts?


    At Fatima 1917, Our Blessed Mother said:

     "More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason. "
    "Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much. " "Woe to
    women lacking in modesty".

    Those fashions came into existence like overnight in 1920+-. Young women, called Flappers, started wearing mini-skirts, low cut tops, two piece bathing suits, and whoring around town. If you watch old movies on Youtube, you will see the fashions and the brainwashing by Hollywood. This immodesty did not happen in the 1960's, it goes back to 1920+-.

    With regard to the beach, I have pictures of my grandfather in 1920-30's wearing what would be described today as Under Armor Boxerjock's. He looks ridiculous.

    People can be convinced of anything.

    Girl today: This is my underwear, I only let my "boyfriend" see me in these. This is my bathing suit that I wear to the beach.

    A thinking man (very rare): but your bathing suit is bigger than your underwear, you are naked in public, you are brainwashed.

    Girl Today: Oh, you are a crazy.



    I did research the modesty issue a couple years ago, and I knew that yes, it did start in the 1920's.

    I have also seen the Fatima quotes in many different places, but only one viable-looking source, and that was a book by a priest. I haven't gotten around to buying it yet.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    « Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 12:22:26 PM »
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  • I have many books on Fatima, I concluded that by far the best, it is a three book series by Brother Michel de la Sainte Trinité  called  "The Whole Truth about Fatima". The first volume, entitled Science and the Facts, appeared in March 1983; the second volume, The Secret and the Church, in January 1984; and the following volume, The Third Secret, in July 1985. I bought the whole set for like $20 at my chapel bookstore 20 years ago. If you do some research you can find them cheap, but not at Amazon.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

     

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