Author Topic: Supporting your Traditional Catholic school (Read 5350 times)

MaterDominici · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:02:18 PM »

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Parents who are home schooling their children generally are not slackers.

What about the sort of parent that simply isn't cut out for homeschooling, but keeps the kids at home nonetheless due to the problems of public schools? I won't go so far as to call him/her a slacker, but perhaps they have too many other obligations and don't have much time at all for adequately supervising education at home. Does such a person simply not exist?

It seems to me that when Catholics are forced into homeschooling that certainly there will be some parents who will excell at the task but also some who will do quite poorly.

Sigismund · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:46:01 PM »

I have mentioned that I attend basically NO church with a TLM celebrated by an FSSP priest. I have no problem with the NO Mass I attend on weekdays. Our pastor is orthodox, the sermons are solid, and the NO liturgy is rubrical. The school is not horrible. Nevertheless, I would think twice before sending my kids there. Many of the religion teachers are, if not overtly heretical, certainly tinged with liberalism. They are replaced by orthodox teachers as they leave. The situation when my kids were growing up was far worse. My wife and I decided that the best option was to send them to a public school, where their faith would not be overtly attacked, and manage their religious education ourselves. They did not attend CCD, or as the DRE called it, The Parish School of Religion. I was happy to explain to her why they did not. She was not happy to hear it.

All of my kids are practicing Catholics as adults, and one of them is a priest.

jmid · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:48:13 PM »

I have battled the "education" problem since I became a Traditional Catholic. I have tried homeschooling, had my older ones in NO schools, moved to Idaho for the Trad schools. I now have some in public school.

I've seen very few homeschool children "succeed " most of them seem extremely uneducated, and alot of them actually end up losing the faith for some reason.

Public school is not as bad for the faith in my humble opinion, because the evil is so easily recognizable.
If you teach catechism and pray together at home, then your children will see thru the BS at school and will have to face it and hopefully reject it. This is the world we live in. They will have to face it someday. With their parents help and prayer they will overcome.

A bad homeschool or Trad school will kill the faith of a child, more than a public school,from what I experienced.

Please do not lock your children in the house, not letting them have friends. They have to learn to make good decisions. How else than by falling down and with guidance from their family they learn to walk the narrow path??

tlmforme · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:23:08 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Yes, there are few (if any) examples of successful trad schools around today -- many of them are dismal failures.

But does that change the principle that parents are responsible for the education of their children, and the best source for education SHOULD be outside the home, at a facility run under the aegis of the Catholic Church?

First, I agree with you that home-schooling....while it may be the best choice the parents have, is not the ideal. Kids need to interact with other children. They need to learn social skills,

I attended 12 yrs. of Catholic school, before Vatican II & I thank God every day for the good nuns who educated me well, in both the Faith & scholastically. HOWEVER, my small city went from 10 schools staffed entirly with traditional nuns (+ the priests that taught at my husband's high school) to ONE nun in the two years following Vat. II. The RSCJ nun that had been the principle at my high school, later told me that "she didn't leave her order, her order left HER.) I did attend a secular college & couldn't believe how much better the Catholic school kids were prepared.

However, from what I see of most Catholic schools since Vat. II......I wonder if it's a waste of money to send our children to them.

I am blessed that the school connected to our parish is very traditional, but it's the only one in the city that is. I believe that it is because we have a Traditional diocesan priest (very unusual, I know). He offers both the NO. Mass & the TLM. , but it's obvious he prefers the TLM.

We, in the heartland do have some new orders of Traditional teaching nuns. Thank You, God.

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:42:10 AM »

Sending your kids to a public school is no guarantee that they will learn social skills. If you do send them to a public school, you can bet money that they will not learn any history, economics, social studies etc. . There are many kids out there who are essentially "socially retarded" who attend or have graduated from the public school and dont know how to interact with people.

tlmforme · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2011, 06:59:30 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

Sending your kids to a public school is no guarantee that they will learn social skills. If you do send them to a public school, you can bet money that they will not learn any history, economics, social studies etc. . There are many kids out there who are essentially "socially retarded" who attend or have graduated from the public school and dont know how to interact with people.

I don't know if this is directed toward me, but I am VERY concerned that some of my Grandchildren are attending public school. As I said in my first post......homeschooling is often the BEST choice one has, but I would never put it up against the education given in both the faith & scholastics obtained from the nuns & priests of yesteryear. My Father could send all 5 of his children through Catholic school as children.......but he couldn't afford to send all 5 of us through Catholic College. Therefore, 3 of usattended our state University......the other 2 attended a small local College. It was there that I realized how much we were scholastically ahead of public school teens. It was there that I realized that our parents & the religious who taught us had instilled us, not only with a love of the faith, but with virtues......self-discipline, character, a good work ethic. The Catholics from the St. Louis area were amazing, taught by clergy & religious, they too excelled.
However, I was speaking about Catholic Schools pre-Vat. II. Someone on this forum said that 20th Century Catholic schools failed. I disagree, as would my 4 siblings. Until the vast exodus of nuns & priests in the late '60's & early '70's, the Catholic School system was superior in most ways. I was taught by the Benedictine nuns & the Madames of the Sacred Heart. My Brothers.......by the Benedictines & the Jesuits, (before they imploded).

We were daily exposed to the Catholic faith, the saints, the Mass. On the first day of May, the month of Our Lady, we had no clases, but began our day with a procession to crown her statue & to follow that with a solemn high Mass said in her honor. In the afternoon, we made Spiritual Bouquest cards for our close relatives.

I think one of the best things about Catholic schools is the fact that most of us married Catholics. True, the girls & boys were sent to separate schools after elementary school, we were still encouraged to date each other. Every Sun. evening, we had a "Teen Town" at our Cathedral's gym, chaperoned by two priests. A girl from my high school was always chosen as homecoming queen for the football team at our "brother school".

Next month, my husband & I, both products of Catholic Schools will have been married 52 years. Most of those who graduated with us are celebrating the same anniversary this year.

One of our sons married a non-Catholic, who was.....of course...."going to join the Church after the wedding".......but didn't. It wasn't a good marriage & ended in divorce, with two of my Grandchildren being educated in the public school system, while my son is trying to homeschool them in the faith. They call themselves Baptoholics & that makes me want to cry. They can only attend Mass on the weekends that they are with my son, & he has to be careful about THAT.

I'm sorry that this post is so long, but I feel very strongly about this. Also, I realize that most of you are SSPX & I am sympathetic to your cause. I pray every day, though, that those of us who are traditional Latin Catholics, attending the tlm. exclusively & who realize that our Churches are in disarray right now, can reconcile our differences & come together as one Church.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:49:35 PM »

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I think one of the best things about Catholic schools is the fact that most of us married Catholics. True, the girls & boys were sent to separate schools after elementary school, we were still encouraged to date each other. Every Sun. evening, we had a "Teen Town" at our Cathedral's gym, chaperoned by two priests. A girl from my high school was always chosen as homecoming queen for the football team at our "brother school".

Were those high school boys planning to marry in the near future?

Were those high school girls planning to marry in the near future?

Weren't most of them planning to go to "college" to "get an education."

It seems to me like you're talking about "Americanism" and "50ism" The Muslim Qutb listened to the sort of songs played at a 40s Church dance and was scandalised by it - for good reason.

Yes the Catholic schools definitely failed. If they had succeeded the people would never have gone along with Vatican II. It's quite clear the laity could not understand what was wrong with Vatican II.

There is a problem with pharisaical ideas about courtship and marriage being taught in many churches.

Giving parents excessive authority (making them believe that a daughter must have their consent to marry or date a man) with no basis in Catholicism, binding girls not to speak to men that speak to them - even to say hello - after already being introduced. Modern ideas about what an acceptable age difference is - they are far more offended with an age difference than by disparity of cult or by young people dating who will not marry soon. In some of these cultish parishes if a family has an eye on a girl for their own son - they become hysterical and start a campaign against a rival - even going to the police without any justification whatsoever. And what is worst about the situation is that priests encourage these evils instead of trying to restrain them.

Their response to a man who wants to talk to a girl who showed him signs of interest:

1) Say that without the father's consent he'll be kicked out of Church if he tries to contact the girl
2) Say that he is imagining everything and is delusional
3) Tell all the other fathers of the girls that the man who only wants a chance to talk after mass with a girl is some sort of predator
4) Kick the man out of Church because he tells the truth in the face of lies.

Caraffa · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:25:53 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Yes the Catholic schools definitely failed. If they had succeeded the people would never have gone along with Vatican II. It's quite clear the laity could not understand what was wrong with Vatican II.

I believe it was Hamish Fraser who said that the problem with pre-Vatican II Catholic schools is that they were schools for "Catholics", rather than Catholic schools.

tlmforme · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2011, 02:54:18 PM »

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1.Were those high school boys planning to marry in the near future?
Were those high school girls planning to marry in the near future?

2. Weren't most of them planning to go to "college" to "get an education."

3. It seems to me like you're talking about "Americanism" and "50ism" The Muslim Qutb listened to the sort of songs played at a 40s Church dance and was scandalised by it - for good reason.

4. Yes the Catholic schools definitely failed. If they had succeeded the people would never have gone along with Vatican II.

5.It's quite clear the laity could not understand what was wrong with Vatican II.

6. (ON DOWN) There is a problem with pharisaical ideas about courtship and marriage being taught in many churches.

Giving parents excessive authority (making them believe that a daughter must have their consent to marry or date a man) with no basis in Catholicism, binding girls not to speak to men that speak to them - even to say hello - after already being introduced. Modern ideas about what an acceptable age difference is - they are far more offended with an age difference than by disparity of cult or by young people dating who will not marry soon. In some of these cultish parishes if a family has an eye on a girl for their own son - they become hysterical and start a campaign against a rival - even going to the police without any justification whatsoever. And what is worst about the situation is that priests encourage these evils instead of trying to restrain them.

Their response to a man who wants to talk to a girl who showed him signs of interest:

1) Say that without the father's consent he'll be kicked out of Church if he tries to contact the girl
2) Say that he is imagining everything and is delusional
3) Tell all the other fathers of the girls that the man who only wants a chance to talk after mass with a girl is some sort of predator
4) Kick the man out of Church because he tells the truth in the face of lies.

[/quote]

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I have tried to format your post, using quotes, codes.....even different colors..........so that I could answer you point by point. It isn't working so I'll just number the points you are inquiring about & number my answers accordingly.

1. Yes, most from the Catholic high schools in 1959......both the guys & the gals.........intended to be married within 2 years of graduation. Many of the boys enlisted for a 2 year stint, came home, got a job & got married. While the girls didn't enlist in the armed forces, the first thing they did upon graduating was look for a job.

2. That depended on the size of their families. Most Catholic parents at that time had big families. My husband's parents had 8 children, my own 5 of their children lived. In order to go to college, one needed scholarships of some kind & believe me those nuns & priests worked hard to find them. My husband went to college on a football scholarhip & held a part-time job during the school term & a full time job in the summer. I had a scholastic scholarship & did the same as he did. If anyone here is old enough to remember Woolworth stores, that's where I worked evenings during college. :geezer:
During the summer, I worked at my Father's business.....thus enabling him to pay me instead of someone else. BTW., he expected more from me than any other boss I've ever had & I'm glad that I learned my work ethic from him.

3. Yes, I love being an American & the 50's were good times. Actually, I couldn't care less what a Muslim thought about the music played at our Church dances. In fact, their idea of morality seems strange to me. Their women must veil their faces, while the men blow up buildings, killing over 3,000 people?? :rolleyes:

4. Perhaps you had a different experience when you attended pre-Vatican II Catholic schools. Please share that with us.

5. You assume you know how we felt & dealt with the disaster that was Vat.II? That is a whole 'nother thread. I will say this......we had only 2 choices: accept or leave. Neither of these were good options. You made yours & I made mine. I'm trying to respect your choice....that's why I'm posting here. I hope you will respect mine, for it was made after much mind searching & study.

6. (ON DOWN) seems to be a rant about "arranged marriage", however I'm not at all sure what you're talking about. My husband & I saw each other during college on holidays as home, spring break, Christmas recess, etc. Neither the Church nor our parents had anything to do with our decision to marry. After we both graduated, we married because we loved each other.....still do after 50 years. Shortlty after that he was drafted & sent to Vietnam. Thank God he returned.

It's almost too funny to believe. I was banned from CAF. for my "radical" views about the Novus Ordo Mass......."they were simply too conservative".

Here, I'm spoken to as if I'm a modernist. :sad:

Telesphorus · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2011, 03:20:59 PM »

Quote from: tlmforme

3. Yes, I love being an American & the 50's were good times. Actually, I couldn't care less what a Muslim thought about the music played at our Church dances.

Muslims are capable of natural morality, and yes, the music that was popular at that time, and the dancing, would have been considered immoral in earlier ages of Catholicism, for good reason.

Quote

In fact, their idea of morality seems strange to me.

Because you were raised in the 50s. But I'm sure one could find nearly unanimous agreement among the writings of the saints that would have come to a similar conclusion as that Muslim man. How do you expect Muslims to come to the Faith if they see Christians permitting their children to behave badly?

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Their women must veil their faces, while the men blow up buildings, killing over 3,000 people?? :rolleyes:

Do you really corporately blame Muslims for 9/11? Do you really think that most Muslim women cover their faces?

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5. You assume you know how we felt & dealt with the disaster that was Vat.II? That is a whole 'nother thread. I will say this......we had only 2 choices: accept or leave.

And why was that? Why would only a small minority have resisted unless most acquiesced to or even supported the changes?

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6. (ON DOWN) seems to be a rant about "arranged marriage", however I'm not at all sure what you're talking about.

No, you mentioned how boys and girls high school girls would date in the 50s. Now how much of that would have been approved by church authorities in earlier eras?

The reaction to that, by some traditional groups, is to try to impose in a cult-like manner unreasonable scruples and cult-like control over the girls - binding their consciences about even saying "hello."

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It's almost too funny to believe. I was banned from CAF. for my "radical" views about the Novus Ordo Mass......."they were simply too conservative".

Here, I'm spoken to as if I'm a modernist. :sad:

No, no one is accusing you of being a modernist.

But you should think about whether or not the children at your school when you were young were really living Catholic lives, or whether they were leading typical American lives.

Matthew · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:44:55 PM »

I can see how a person could get nostalgia for a time in which *most* things were far better than they are today. Many things were just as broken, but that isn't what you focus on.

I'm only in my 30's, but I could imagine getting misty-eyed for the "good old days" of the early 1990s, when Generation X was busy getting a high school education, before Social Media, texting, cell phones, and advanced video games hit the scene. Students were that much more capable of writing, reading, and being understood than equivalent students today.

However, I am realistic enough to admit that the music was still not in line with Catholic morality, the nation as a whole was still not Catholic, etc., etc.

Simply comparing the early 1990's with today, the 90's come out way ahead. But what does that mean, really? If it's just a relatively higher point on the slope we've traveled down?

I think the 50's are just an even HIGHER point on the slope -- but it's still a mid-point in the slope, not the "apex of Catholic civilization". That would be the 1300s.

Also, I believe that I, personally, would probably be *most* nostalgic for the 1990s, because that's when I remember coming of age. That's when I got my first computer, got my first car & drivers license, got my first job, moved into my first apartment, etc.

That's why a lot of people are nostalgic for the 50's -- things were better in many ways, and that's when they came of age, yet before they were burdened with the heavy duties of parenthood.

Matthew

tlmforme · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2011, 07:31:16 PM »

Code: [Select]

Muslims are capable of natural morality, and yes, the music that was popular at that time, and the dancing, would have been considered immoral in earlier ages of Catholicism, for good reason.

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However, Catholics must live Catholic lives during the time period that God chose for them to live & God's Law doesn't change. Why would you accuse myself & my friends of doing something that the Saints & Fathers would consider immoral?

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Because you were raised in the 50s. But I'm sure one could find nearly unanimous agreement among the writings of the saints that would have come to a similar conclusion as that Muslim man. How do you expect Muslims to come to the Faith if they see Christians permitting their children to behave badly?[/quote]

Quote

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Because I was raised in the 50's??!!! Whoops, you forgot something: I was a Catholic raised in the 50's. True Catholicism doesn't change. Modesty was as important in the 50's as it was in the 15th century. Moreso, according to some of the art from that era. Keeping oneself sɛҳuąƖly pure, obeying one's parents, working hard, developing self-discipline, etc. was just as important in the 50's as it was in the centuries before.
You are inferring that people you've never met, listening to music & dancing in front of two pre-Vat. II priests (who made sure that the "close dancing" was at arms length & the fast dancing did not involve suggestive moves are "children who are behaving badly". Who do you think you are??

And you're assuming that Catholic Saints view morality in the same way that a Muslim man does. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

My point was & is that Catholic schools AT ONE TIME were the best option for those who wanted their children to know both their faith & to excell scholastically. You are taking this thread totally off topic.

Matthew, I'm just glad that I am not raising my children today. It was bad enough during the 70's. If we hadn't checked their religious training, corrected mistakes that they were being taught in CATHOLIC SCHOOLS for heaven's sake, I don't know if they would still be Catholics today. One of the reasons that we sent them to parochial school, was the fact that I had taught CCD. at a parish before my last 2 children were born & before the first two were of school age. We had very few materials to "lean on" & much of it was the "just be nice to people & you'll be fine" type of stuff.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2011, 09:26:22 PM »

Quote from: tlmforme

And you're assuming that Catholic Saints view morality in the same way that a Muslim man does. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Unbelievable to think that Muslims believe in avoiding occasions of impurity before marriage?

Quote

However, Catholics must live Catholic lives during the time period that God chose for them to live & God's Law doesn't change. Why would you accuse myself & my friends of doing something that the Saints & Fathers would consider immoral?

I'm not accusing you and your friends of anything in particular. I'm saying the sort of dance you describe in the 1950s is probably something that Catholic saints would not have approved of. My father recounted going to dances put on in the masonic lodge of Bloomington, Ill. My mother recounted that her little town (a VERY Catholic town) had a kind of beauty contest where the girls would sit on the top of the back seats of convertibles.

http://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Catholic_Morality/Kissing.htm

You see, I brought up the Muslims for a simple reason - on these matters they would agree with the saints in disapproving of such things, 1950s American Catholics generally would not have disapproved.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2011, 09:46:22 PM »

My mother tells me this beauty pageant was going on when she was a girl:

http://www.dyersvillecommercial.com/article.cfm?id=161727

That was when the town and the surrounding area was almost entirely Catholic.

The movie The Field of Dreams was filmed just 3 miles or so from my grandmother's house, and it is very interesting to me they chose that location to build a kind of shrine (many people drive to visit the field on the farm) to a movie that tells of a man who summons the dead by building a baseball field, and helps to bring the dead to heaven by means of baseball.

As a child I was not well catechized, didn't understand the way the film was subversive of Christian belief.

When we consider they chose a location very near a Catholic Basilica, in the most Catholic part of the country, we can start to understand better the insidious way in which Hollywood and Americanist propaganda tries to use nostalgia against the Faith.

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #29 on:** March 14, 2011, 02:16:00 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

I'm not accusing you and your friends of anything in particular. I'm saying the sort of dance you describe in the 1950s is probably something that Catholic saints would not have approved of.

Indeed. St.John Vianny was no fan of dances. I can only wonder what his reaction would have been to see a modern dance being hosted by a parish.

The music of the period is what really makes it bad. Personally, I wouldn't let any of my kids (if I had any) listen to trash from the 50's.