Author Topic: Supporting your Traditional Catholic school (Read 5348 times)

Matthew · « **on:** March 10, 2011, 11:16:45 AM »

It is well-known that a traditional Catholic school has a much harder time raising funds than, say, a Seminary.

Why is it that Catholics don't seem to appreciate the value of a good Catholic education, in the context of the "village" rather than the "home"?

Home school is not the ideal -- it's the best solution in many cases, but not the ideal.

The ideal is to send your children to a Church-run school, for a good education, centered on God (as it should be), with decent teachers and oversight.

Discuss.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:18:20 AM »

Apparently, priests lament the ignorance of many traditional Catholics, who claim that Homeschooling is always the "1st choice" -- with quotes like "Our Lady homeschooled -- what's good enough for her is good enough for me."

I believe that in some cases, homeschooling leads to excessively isolated children, who end up becoming excessively worldly later on, once they "discover" the world.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:24:34 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

It is well-known that a traditional Catholic school has a much harder time raising funds than, say, a Seminary.

Why is it that Catholics don't seem to appreciate the value of a good Catholic education, in the context of the "village" rather than the "home"?

Home school is not the ideal -- it's the best solution in many cases, but not the ideal.

The ideal is to send your children to a Church-run school, for a good education, centered on God (as it should be), with decent teachers and oversight.

Discuss.

When the Church teaches that the education of children is the responsibility of parents and not the state it makes it clear that the parents should be the judge of what is best. So long as a child is receiving proper catechism and religious instruction it seems to be a contradiction to say parents are doing wrong if they trust their own judgment more than the "chapel school."

I think it's quite clear - Catholic education failed in the 20th Century.

A lot of parents trusted these church schools and what happened to the kids who attended them? Particularly once Vatican II occurred?

Of course there should be good Catholic schools but in general there are not such schools available - and that includes most "chapel schools."

If the SSPX wants to have successful schools they should focus on pleasing parents rather than on insisting on the moral obligation of the parents to please them.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:29:10 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

I believe that in some cases, homeschooling leads to excessively isolated children, who end up becoming excessively worldly later on, once they "discover" the world.

It can lead to children being excessively isolated and eventually to rebellion. But it's not right to say that "school" - particularly the typical SSPX school - has any relation to "the world" unless one is thinking of the special evils that are in some ways uniquely characteristic of schools.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:56:04 AM »

Yes, there are few (if any) examples of successful trad schools around today -- many of them are dismal failures.

But does that change the principle that parents are responsible for the education of their children, and the best source for education SHOULD be outside the home, at a facility run under the aegis of the Catholic Church?

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2011, 12:11:42 PM »

I have a question. There are no traditional Catholic schools in my area, and I am thinking of sending my (soon to be) 13 year old to Saint Mary's. However, she does not want to be far away from us. My father has been of ill health since I was 12 years old myself (and is miraculously still here). In the last few months, his health has gone downhill, but lately he seems to be getting a bit better. She would be very bitter if I sent her there, and something happened to her grandfather (who she is very close to) and she was away.

She needs structure. It is a battle day after day to get her to do what she needs to do. She's even brought up wanting to go to the local publik skool (to which she knows the answer will FOREVER AND ALWAYS will be NO). She wants "friends." I understand her wanting to engage with other children because she is very social, but I refuse to allow it at the expense of her soul.

My husband was one of the first students at Saint Mary's whilst Father Bolduc (the priest who purchased the property for Saint Mary's in the first place) was the headmaster. But see, he WANTED to go there, and my daughter adamantly does not.

What should I do? Send her anyway despite her combativeness towards the idea? Or just keep on doing what I'm doing and hope she doesn't resent me?

Thanks.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2011, 12:55:08 PM »

Well, it sounds like you have your work cut out for you.

She needs to be convinced of the value of her soul, the power of bad peers (and error being all around you, especially when it's taught as truth!), etc.

You need to give her a "choice" -- no complaining about lack of friends, or go to St. Mary's. That way, you let her pick her cross -- she can't really complain about it.

My wife does this to me all the time -- when there are two choices, each of which has a major downside, she lets me decide. Then I can't really complain about the downside, since it was my choice.

Tell her you understand her need for friends, even volunteer that man was created by God to be social, but tell her that eating poison is no solution for a starving man. Sometimes nothing is better than something harmful.

You do need to find some solution to this problem of "friends", or she will eventually ditch her Faith to get them. Find some friends online, at Church, or send her to a Catholic school like St. Mary's.

I wish I had a more perfect solution, but there are no neat, tidy, perfect solutions these days.

Matthew

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2011, 01:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Yes, there are few (if any) examples of successful trad schools around today -- many of them are dismal failures.

But does that change the principle that parents are responsible for the education of their children, and the best source for education SHOULD be outside the home, at a facility run under the aegis of the Catholic Church?

I don't think one can say it is part of Apostolic Faith that children should be educated outside the home in daily schools.

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2011, 01:59:44 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Matthew
Yes, there are few (if any) examples of successful trad schools around today -- many of them are dismal failures.

But does that change the principle that parents are responsible for the education of their children, and the best source for education SHOULD be outside the home, at a facility run under the aegis of the Catholic Church?

I don't think one can say it is part of Apostolic Faith that children should be educated outside the home in daily schools.

Nevertheless, the custom of sending one's children outside the home for education is just as venerable as homeschooling can claim to be.

Homeschooling is a very difficult undertaking, even in the best of scenarios -- as any homeschooling parent will tell you. It's not easy.
Especially if you have more than 2 children. Many "mainstream" Americans are discovering homeschooling lately, but many of them are mainstream enough to only have 2 or 3 children -- and homeschooling is a different animal when you have a smaller (and/or more spaced-out) family.

Modern man pays money/hires people to do just about everything else -- why not hire men -- let's call them "teachers" -- to teach our children? And so it was. The Catholic Church normally undertook this task, until the French Revolution pounded the final nail in Christendom's coffin in the 18th century.

Since then, public schools have been atheistic and designed to PREVENT thought, and form good future factory workers.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:05:42 PM »

Homeschooling is another American phenomenon -- at least one that appeals greatly to Americans, as it is very individualistic.

Americans also like Independent chapels, Survivalism, becoming "self-sufficient", etc. Those things are barely heard of outside modern America.

Most cultures realize that a family can hardly become self-sufficient in ANYTHING, much less everything. Some kind of community is necessary. Most cultures older than 100 years old know this very well.

Even homeschoolers realize this -- there are hundreds of "homeschooling groups" to help with the daunting task.

As a man that has studied survivalism for several years, I can say that it's impossible to become self-sufficient. Unless you're willing to live like an animal, of course. Your concept of life would be a much more miserable one. For example, when you get a toothache, you'd have to pull it yourself. And when anything goes wrong with your body, you die.

Civilized man developed specialties, so each man excels at one (or two) tasks, and trades with others to get what he can't provide for himself. That's how God envisioned man's life. He created man with a social component -- a need to be with other men.

Matthew

Matto · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:17:55 PM »

It must be very hard for those with families to deal with educating their children, especially with paying high taxes to support public schools and then being unable to send your children to those schools. It makes the family have to pay two times for an education, once in taxes and once in fees for a traditional Catholic school, if they are lucky enough to live near an acceptable one. I greatly admire those who home-school their children, though, like Matthew, I don't see that as an ideal, just the best option for those with no access to a good traditional Catholic school.

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:24:41 PM »

You're talking to someone who plans on homeschooling his children.

But I am under no delusions about how easy it is, or what kind of "awesome education" we'll be able to give them. Maybe if we have a genius or gifted child and/or one who excels in self-directed learning, then we'll have some cases of stellar results.

But more often than not, homeschooling is putting the Faith before worldly learning.

I think that's what it comes down to. Homeschooling, for most families, will NOT result in a better-educated child than private (or even public?) school. But they will keep the Faith. If the Faith is what matters most, then there's no problem. But don't claim it's academically a great idea, because usually it isn't.

Heck, the famous St. Mary's, KS is a mediocre-to-lousy option, academically speaking. I've heard that from several who have attended the school.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:30:53 PM »

I have a couple of theses -- feel free to discuss.

1. Homeschooling is putting the Faith before worldly learning. Education quality is poor. The main -- if not only -- advantage of traditional Catholic homeschooling is the benefit to one's Faith.

2. The attractive aspects of "homeschooled children" come from their traditional Catholic upbringing and lifestyle, not being homeschooled per se. Giving children books instead of TV, giving them plenty of siblings to learn/play/deal with, helps them to be more mature, patient, balanced, down-to-earth, etc. Large families are better for children. More responsibility, better work ethic, etc. Good traditional Catholic families will not expose their children to evil influences (TV, media, cell phones, worldly magazines, etc.).

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Homeschooling, for most families, will NOT result in a better-educated child than private (or even public?) school. But they will keep the Faith. If the Faith is what matters most, then there's no problem. But don't claim it's academically a great idea, because usually it isn't.

Uh, Sorry Matthew but you are wrong about this. Every single piece of real statistical data says otherwise. Homeschooled students are more successful in college, as well. And I can tell you why. Most people learn things on their own, either from reading instructions and following directions. We benefit mostly from reading, discussing, re-reading, writing, and thinking. Home school teaches these skills. By the time children get in the teenage years, learning is self directed.

These skills allow for greater creativity and variety. Young people are able to actually pursue their own interests with zeal.

Parents who are home schooling their children generally are not slackers. They have some sense about them and are often goal directed.

I've seen the difference with my own eyes. We took our children out of public school last year. They literally could not think for themselves. Our highschooler could not read a text and then ask questions about it. He wanted me to read it and type some notes for him to memorize so he could pass a test.

Now that he HAS to read, interpret, write, argue, and discuss, his whole world has opened up.

Education is not just about regurgitating facts.

While I think a traditional Catholic education might be the best option, I certainly don't think it necessarily makes for better educated children.

Homeschool students don't have to be isolated. But I'm not necessarily sure that spending time with friends is all that great for children anyway unless these friends share the same values as you do. Children are HIGHLY influenced by other children.

Here's a link with recent stats that might interest you.

http://offers.degreesearch.org/infographics/homeschooling-by-the-numbers/

Matthew · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:57:29 PM »

Thank you for your post, CathMomof7.

Don't worry, I'm not going to take offense from anyone's post. I'm here for a good discussion. Homeschooling is an important topic -- one that's relevant for anyone with children.

The question I have is -- WHY are the homeschoolers doing better on tests, etc.? Is it because their parents are attentive to their duties? Is it the traditional Catholic (integrally Catholic) lifestyle?

And I brought up another good point (if I do say so myself!) and that is:
There are two kinds of homeschoolers: parents homeschooling less than 3 children, and those with 4 or more. Obviously more attention can be given by the parents to stimulate, guide, etc. in the former case.

Ultimately, education has to be about the individual learning and understanding for himself -- regurgitating facts clearly won't cut it. That's why most public school is "out", for academic as well as moral reasons.

Perhaps homeschool does a better job than most of teaching children to learn -- and love learning?