Quote from: poche

Quote from: BTNYC

Quote from: poche

Quote from: BTNYC

Quote from: poche

Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia has described abortion as “a uniquely wicked act” which cannot be described as morally equivalent to other sinful deeds.

In a column for his archdiocesan newspaper, Archbishop Chaput expresses his approval for the “seamless garment” approach popularized by the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin. Citing a statement by the US bishops, he says: “Opposition to abortion and euthanasia does not excuse indifference to those who suffer from poverty, violence and injustice.”

Nevertheless the archbishop insists that moral distinctions remain among different offenses against human dignity. “Indeed, the failure to protect and defend life in its most vulnerable stages renders suspect any claims to the ‘rightness’ of positions in other matters affecting the poorest and least powerful of the human community,” he says.

“No amount of contextualizing or deflecting our attention to other issues can obscure” the intrinsic evil of abortion, Archbishop Chaput writes.

The archbishop’s statement, written in response to the effort to stop taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood, contrasts with an earlier statement by Chicago’s Archbishop Blaise Cupich, who said:


While commerce in the remains of defenseless children is particularly repulsive, we should be no less appalled by the indifference toward the thousands of people who die daily for lack of decent medical care; who are denied rights by a broken immigration system and by racism; who suffer in hunger, joblessness and want; who pay the price of violence in gun-saturated neighborhoods; or who are executed by the state in the name of justice.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=25793

Chaput is a typical neocath "conservative" who likes his Truth commingled with Error and vice versa. That explains why Poche likes him so much.

He calls abortion a "uniquely wicked act," "which cannot be described as morally equivalent to other sinful deeds," then he starts talking out of the other side of his mouth (as all these Janus-faced "conservatives" are wont to do) and offers his "approval" to that brainchild of the (very) uniquely wicked Joseph Bernardin (of unhappy memory) known deceptively (perhaps blasphemously) as the "Seamless Garment," which is itself a codification of making abortion "morally equivalent to other sinful deeds," and even with a perfectly morally defensible "deed" like Capital Punishment.

Every Catholic above the Age of Reason used to know what the Four Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance are - Murder, Sodomy, Oppression of the Poor, and Defrauding the Laborer of his Wages. If these empurpled capitulators would actually start teaching the Catholic Faith whole and inviolate for a change, distinction-muddling Modernist mush like the "Seamless Garment" would never even leave the drawing board, and the milquetoast "conservative" doubletalkers like Chaput wouldn't have to perform semantic gymnastics making distinctions on the one hand, and paying lipservice to distinctionless novelties on the other.

At least the sod-enabling heretic Cupich is consistent in his support of his sod-enabling heretic predecessor Bernardin's doctrine of Moral Indifference. But they're all spineless Americanist cowards, almost to a man. I can't think of a single Catholic among them; they're all "conservatives" and "liberals" now; publicly sparring with talking points but nonetheless "agreeing to disagree" like the cheap politicians they are, all while immemorial Catholic Teaching and Dogma goes untaught and unenforced.

John Courtney Murray, SJ; CIA would be proud.

I notice that you recognize that oppressing the poor and defrauding the laboror of his wages are sins that cry out to Heaven for vengance. Pope Francis also speaks against those two evils.

But from a Marxist standpoint, not a Catholic one. Better that he not open his mouth at all if he's going to sound more like Che Guevara than Leo XIII.

Furthermore, Oppression of the Poor and Defrauding the Laborer of his Wages are the third and fourth on that list - the big two - Murder and Sodomy - are the worst of the bunch, and Francis has been worse than silent on these subjects of abortion and fαɢɢօtry - he has tacitly endorsed them by saying that Catholics are "obsessed" with the former, and claiming "who am I to judge" about the latter.

Actually he explicitly condemned abortion and transgenderism by name in Laudatio Si.

Oh so then, taking a cue from the Vatican II docuмents, he talks out of both sides of his mouth?

Quote from: Every third line in every Vatican II docuмent

"Although it is true that... / Nevertheless we must..."

He said Catholics are "obsessed" about Sodomy and abortion, Poche. And he said "Youth Unemplyment" is the greatest evil in the world today.

What's your spin on that?

You are quoting the Pope out of context.

Quote from: poche

Quote from: BTNYC

Oh so then, taking a cue from the Vatican II docuмents, he talks out of both sides of his mouth?

Quote from: Every third line in every Vatican II docuмent

"Although it is true that... / Nevertheless we must..."

He said Catholics are "obsessed" about Sodomy and abortion, Poche. And he said "Youth Unemplyment" is the greatest evil in the world today.

What's your spin on that?

You are quoting the Pope out of context.

Objective third party reading this thread: Does Poche's post above look normal, reasonable, sensible to you? If he truly believed I were "quoting the pope out of context," wouldn't he go on to provide that context? But he doesn't... because there's no sincerity in what he says. He knows full well that there's no defense for the indefensible, yet he throws his flat, lifeless assertion that I'm "quoting the pope out of context" and hoping that that will silence me. This is why I detest Poche's presence on this forum - he toes the NO party line with all the usual party-approved talking points, and with all the patented NO evasiveness and dishonesty. It's not for nothing that I've come to seriously suspect he could be a paid Conciliar plant... and to further suspect, as of late, that he - or his overseers - have... arranged for his otherwise inexplicable protected status on ostensibly Traditional Catholic forums.

He evades his disputants, thus he hardly deserves to have his own posts directly addressed... but the objective third party reading this thread, to whom I addressed the above, deserves not to be taken in by his tactical misdirections.

So no, Poche, these oft-repeated quotes were not taken out of context. Indeed, each provides context for the other. Francis claims in the former that Catholics run the risk of over-emphasizing the evils of abortion and sodomy. That's objectively wrong for two reasons: The first being that it is impossible to overstate the evil of these crimes, as they are among the very worst evils committed by man, and committed with greater frequency now than every before in the history of mankind. The second is the fact that Catholics have manifestly been negligent in giving these evils the public reprobation they are due - no less prominent a prelate than Cardinal Dolan publicly boasted of having almost never preached on these subjects.

As for the latter quote, let's provide the pope's words in full: "‘The most serious of the evils that afflict the world these days are youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old." That statement is full and untruncated, and provides its own "context." Moreover, it provides context for the pope's other quote. He believes Catholics are "too obsessed" with the diabolic evils of abortion and sodomy precisely because he does not believe they are "the most serious evils that afflict the world these days;" for he has come out and identified said evils as "youth unemployment" and "the loneliness of the old." That, as any properly catechized child can tell you, is sheerest nonsense. Worse, it is nonsense that bespeaks the horrible truth that the putative Vicar of Christ has the Sensus Catholicus of a Unitarian clergyman, or a social worker.

If I'm wrong, then prove me wrong. Correct me instead of flatly, lifelessly hurling Conciliar soundbites at me.

Quote from: poche

Quote from: BTNYC

Quote from: poche

Quote from: BTNYC

Oh so then, taking a cue from the Vatican II docuмents, he talks out of both sides of his mouth?

Quote from: Every third line in every Vatican II docuмent

"Although it is true that... / Nevertheless we must..."

He said Catholics are "obsessed" about Sodomy and abortion, Poche. And he said "Youth Unemplyment" is the greatest evil in the world today.

What's your spin on that?

You are quoting the Pope out of context.

Objective third party reading this thread: Does Poche's post above look normal, reasonable, sensible to you? If he truly believed I were "quoting the pope out of context," wouldn't he go on to provide that context? But he doesn't... because there's no sincerity in what he says. He knows full well that there's no defense for the indefensible, yet he throws his flat, lifeless assertion that I'm "quoting the pope out of context" and hoping that that will silence me. This is why I detest Poche's presence on this forum - he toes the NO party line with all the usual party-approved talking points, and with all the patented NO evasiveness and dishonesty. It's not for nothing that I've come to seriously suspect he could be a paid Conciliar plant... and to further suspect, as of late, that he - or his overseers - have... arranged for his otherwise inexplicable protected status on ostensibly Traditional Catholic forums.

He evades his disputants, thus he hardly deserves to have his own posts directly addressed... but the objective third party reading this thread, to whom I addressed the above, deserves not to be taken in by his tactical misdirections.

So no, Poche, these oft-repeated quotes were not taken out of context. Indeed, each provides context for the other. Francis claims in the former that Catholics run the risk of over-emphasizing the evils of abortion and sodomy. That's objectively wrong for two reasons: The first being that it is impossible to overstate the evil of these crimes, as they are among the very worst evils committed by man, and committed with greater frequency now than every before in the history of mankind. The second is the fact that Catholics have manifestly been negligent in giving these evils the public reprobation they are due - no less prominent a prelate than Cardinal Dolan publicly boasted of having almost never preached on these subjects.

As for the latter quote, let's provide the pope's words in full: "‘The most serious of the evils that afflict the world these days are youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old." That statement is full and untruncated, and provides its own "context." Moreover, it provides context for the pope's other quote. He believes Catholics are "too obsessed" with the diabolic evils of abortion and sodomy precisely because he does not believe they are "the most serious evils that afflict the world these days;" for he has come out and identified said evils as "youth unemployment" and "the loneliness of the old." That, as any properly catechized child can tell you, is sheerest nonsense. Worse, it is nonsense that bespeaks the horrible truth that the putative Vicar of Christ has the Sensus Catholicus of a Unitarian clergyman, or a social worker.

If I'm wrong, then prove me wrong. Correct me instead of flatly, lifelessly hurling Conciliar soundbites at me.

I believe that you are quoting the Pope out of context. While both abortion and sodomy are evil, if all you want to talk about is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and aborton then you are not giving an accurate view of what the Catholic Church is about. There is more to the Catholic Church than only saying abortion abortion abortion and sodomy sodomy sodomy. That being said that doesn't negate the fact that these are sins of a particular evil that cry out to God for vengance.
The issue of youth unemployment is of a different order whose evil is underestimated. Idle hands are the devils playthings. That is particularly true with young people.

Frank the Fraud on abortion, fαɢɢօtry, and contraception:

"The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gαys-and-abortion.html?pagewanted=all&referrer=

Obsessed with the transmission = Teaching

Disjointed multitude of doctrines = Catholic morals

Imposed insistently = Always taught the same; unwavering; in whole as opposed to watered-down

I do give the mush-mouthed old fαɢɢօt credit for not being very ambiguous on this point.  Your leader is a revolutionary, Poche, who I suspect is mad as hell at the spin-doctors such as yourself changing his message.  The spin is where the ambiguity is interjected.