Author Topic: St. Marys KS -- Catholic Disneyland or good thing? (Read 24783 times)

Matthew · « **on:** November 15, 2010, 12:29:02 PM »

There seems to be a controversy over whether the traditional Catholic "mega-community" at St. Mary's, KS is just what the doctor ordered for the times in which we live.

Here is an example of why I would be tempted to say NO:

Quote

My son, N..., has moved to St. Marys with his wife and two children - and one more on the way. This addition to the Assumption Chapel and Academy families is seeking a house to rent in town or near by if possible; three bedrooms a must. Also, N... has (skills omitted); he has a versatile background and will be looking for work to support that family. Anyone that has any suggestions on either or both both fronts - it would be appreciated if your run them by me. Please pray for this family.

Regards,

(Name withheld)

Should Catholics be more prudent and make sure they have a way to support themselves, rather than head for the "trad Catholic mecca" in blind faith that they'll find something when they get there?

I know of at least one SSPX priest who was highly critical of PRECISELY the case I quoted above. Moving to St. Marys, with no idea how you will support yourself.

"Because it's... well, St. Mary's! 5 Masses on Sunday! Come on!"

But St. Marys has it own problems as well. Let's just say people are more inclined to take the Faith for granted when it's so prevalent -- just like the 1950's all across America.

On the other hand, other prominent priests believed that St. Mary's is certainly a good thing, even though many residents are worldly, etc. -- after all, you can't change human nature or control people's Free Will. But you can't say that a Catholic environment is a bad thing.

I see the merit in this point of view as well.

I just wanted to start a conversation about this important topic.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2010, 12:32:31 PM »

I bet a LOT of people have been disappointed after a move to St. Mary's.

For many reasons.

I visited there for 10 days once; I know a family member who went to school (college) there for a year, and several seminarians who were from there.

One wise person said, "It's like your typical SSPX chapel, only with 30 to 50 times the population. Nothing more, nothing less." or something to that effect.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2010, 12:43:42 PM »

One interesting question --

WHAT KIND of traditional Catholics are attracted to a place like St. Mary's?

Perhaps a portion of the population consists of weaker Catholics with a need to be around a bunch of "yes men" -- they need to be around "like-minded people" to be strong in their faith?

Not speaking about everyone there, but I could easily see it.

Matthew

MyrnaM · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2010, 01:33:29 PM »

Oh, I don't know. Many people picked up and moved to Spokane to be living in a Catholic community.

It has its problems for sure, but it has its advantages too.

My husband wouldn't think of moving till he retired from Lockheed, so I had to wait 15 years to get to a Catholic community, but I love it. It was worth waiting for, and I think it is good for the children. A Catholic school K through high school. Many of them have married each other, some have drifted off into the world never to be seen again. That does not mean they lost their Faith, just left Spokane.

Have you ever heard that saying, "once a Catholic, always a Catholic".....

sedetrad · « **Reply #4 on:** November 15, 2010, 01:40:48 PM »

Moving to a place where you cannot viably support your family is wrong. St. Mary's is probably a nice place to go to mass, but it seems to me that the city has not grown in an organic fashion. The only thing many of the people would have in common would be their faith. Their politics and backgrounds may be vastly different. For example, how would a Trad from the deep South really like to live next to a New York city trad and vice-versa. They are not culturally compatible. It is not like the old ethnic Catholic neighborhoods that existed during the 20's-50's where people were ethnically similiar, related, and new each other. It seems to me building these artifical "traditional" communities is a recipe for failure.

Belloc · « **Reply #5 on:** November 15, 2010, 02:50:19 PM »

True, plus Catholics are so divided on theology, let alone regional issues, ethinicity,etc.

Alexandria · « **Reply #6 on:** November 15, 2010, 02:51:42 PM »

Quote from: sedetrad

Moving to a place where you cannot viably support your family is wrong. St. Mary's is probably a nice place to go to mass, but it seems to me that the city has not grown in an organic fashion. The only thing many of the people would have in common would be their faith. Their politics and backgrounds may be vastly different. For example, how would a Trad from the deep South really like to live next to a New York city trad and vice-versa. They are not culturally compatible. It is not like the old ethnic Catholic neighborhoods that existed during the 20's-50's where people were ethnically similiar, related, and new each other. It seems to me building these artifical "traditional" communities is a recipe for failure.

If you only knew the truth of what you write here...after nineteen years, this transplanted East Coaster is still and always will be a fish out of water. There's no place like home.

My advice to anyone is to stay where you are. Relocating for the sake of what someone perceives to be a traditional utopia is a big mistake.

"Artificial traditional communities" - you said it Sede! - a recipe for failure and, I might add, disillusionment. I know many, many families who rue the day they decided to uproot themselves for what they thought were greener pastures.

Matthew · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:03:50 PM »

For the people moving there with no job, etc. it's "putting the Faith first"

But it seems to me, God gave us each a brain and we must be prudent.

How can we save our souls when we can't feed our families?

St. Thomas Aquinas said that private property is a good, useful for living a virtuous life. We need certain material things to live a virtuous life.

God doesn't want us all digging in garbage cans. For starters, it's hard to help others -- practice charity -- when you're digging in garbage cans to keep body & soul together.

(He also doesn't want us idle; living off "residual income", "investment income" or other such money that comes without working... "By the sweat of thy brow shalt thou eat bread all the days of thy life", etc.)

And St. Paul quoted Jesus Christ as saying, "It is a more blessed thing to give than to receive."

Also, how can you home school your children if both parents have to work because of dire poverty? Again, material things (and considerations) have their place.

Matthew

Alexandria · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:15:21 PM »

That's the worst. I know countless families that lost everything because they either couldn't find a job at all or had to take a job in their field for less than half of what they had been making before they moved. Reserves dwindle, some have to file for bankruptcy, others have the supreme humiliation of being at the mercy of food banks and the food stamp program, tempers flare, the traditional utopia turns out not to be so utopian....some make it back, most don't.

Sad situation all around.

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:25:40 PM »

And here's the ten million dollar question:

When the Jones family moves 1,000 miles to be in St. Marys, because they "value the Faith" and suffer *greatly* for financial reasons, etc. what do you suppose they think of Catholics who stay put and don't move there?

They're probably going to look down on them. After all, the Jones family suffered so much to "put the Faith first" so they will be righteous as they look down on others who are content "to only attend Mass once a week. Hmph!"

Even though that's the more prudent course for most of the population.

Let's face it -- someone has to be the leaven for those "lesser chapels" too -- what if all the good Catholics up and left for St. Marys? What would happen to those "left behind" in all the other major cities in America? They would have no good examples to look upon.

Yes, it's nice to have tons of traditional Catholics all around you, but it comes with its downsides. You don't have to fight as much to be a Catholic, which makes for weaker, more complacent Catholics (in my opinion).

Matthew

Emerentiana · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2010, 05:39:47 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

There seems to be a controversy over whether the traditional Catholic "mega-community" at St. Mary's, KS is just what the doctor ordered for the times in which we live.

Here is an example of why I would be tempted to say NO:

Quote
My son, N..., has moved to St. Marys with his wife and two children - and one more on the way. This addition to the Assumption Chapel and Academy families is seeking a house to rent in town or near by if possible; three bedrooms a must. Also, N... has (skills omitted); he has a versatile background and will be looking for work to support that family. Anyone that has any suggestions on either or both both fronts - it would be appreciated if your run them by me. Please pray for this family.

Regards,

(Name withheld)

Should Catholics be more prudent and make sure they have a way to support themselves, rather than head for the "trad Catholic mecca" in blind faith that they'll find something when they get there?

I know of at least one SSPX priest who was highly critical of PRECISELY the case I quoted above. Moving to St. Marys, with no idea how you will support yourself.

"Because it's... well, St. Mary's! 5 Masses on Sunday! Come on!"

But St. Marys has it own problems as well. Let's just say people are more inclined to take the Faith for granted when it's so prevalent -- just like the 1950's all across America.

On the other hand, other prominent priests believed that St. Mary's is certainly a good thing, even though many residents are worldly, etc. -- after all, you can't change human nature or control people's Free Will. But you can't say that a Catholic environment is a bad thing.

I see the merit in this point of view as well.

I just wanted to start a conversation about this important topic.

Matthew

A while back, a man named Jim joined the forum to tell about his radio blog show in which he has interviews with people who came from the east to join the SSPX community in Post Falls Idaho. He wasnt kindly treated by some on the forum.
In his interviews he discusses issues with the school there, and how hard it is to make a living in Post Falls, Idaho. The talks are well worth listening to. Im sure its the same in St Marys.
I have heard complaints from people moving to Spokane to be near the CMRI community there. We dont live in a perfect world! Being near the mass and a Catholic school involves many sacrifices.
Here is the link to the talks.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/backyardradtrads

Alexandria · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2010, 05:51:57 PM »

Quote

A while back, a man named Jim joined the forum to tell about his radio blog show in which he has interviews with people who came from the east to join the SSPX community in Post Falls Idaho. He wasnt kindly treated by some on the forum.

Let's put that in perspective.

Say a man named "John Doe" joined this forum and started bashing Mount St. Michael's and their school. Let's further say that, while some of what he said may have a bit of truth in it, for the most part he was just a disgruntled parishioner who had his own idea of how a traditional catholic school and parish should be run.

What would you say?

The issue here is whether the move is worth it, not our gripes with how the school and parish are run.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2010, 06:05:11 PM »

Uprooting our family to be near a dodgy academy and Mass center ?

* EPIC FAIL*

We were pretty sure St. Mary's wouldn't work, because we were able to get an accurate sense of it from people at our chapel.

Some of us just have to learn things the hard way, sadly. :tinfoil:

Emerentiana, I thought those talks were very interesting, and I am sorry that Jim was run off.

If you're around, HI JIM!!!

MyrnaM · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2010, 06:29:18 PM »

Sounds like I'm the only person in the world who loves living in a Catholic community. Looooooooooove it!

However, as I said, my husband and I are retired, but you would never know it, I have three grandchildren living with me, one in K, one in 6th grade and one a Senior in high school. I feel like I did 40 years ago when I was raising my own children, running them here and there.

I love the school for them, they love it too, in fact all my grandchildren who have already graduated from the Mount, still attend Mass there, and these that still attend just love it, in fact I can't even get the girl that is a Senior to come home. Right now its 4:30 and she is still there helping to clean the theatre down in the basement.

Her entire class is going to Boston, during the Easter Holy Week with two of the nuns. We have a chapel in Boston, and not only will they sing for the Catholics there during Mid-night Mass but they will meet new young people.

The nuns plan on taking them on some of the historic places also. I feel some here might object to that; those who would rather forget the history of America, but I am happy Mount St. Michael doesn't feel that way.

I do agree however, if there are no jobs, and you have a good job right now, this is certainly not the time to take a chance. I read once in one of those prophesy books, that Catholics should stay where God has placed you in the end time period.

Emerentiana · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2010, 06:38:55 PM »

Quote

I do agree however, if there are no jobs, and you have a good job right now, this is certainly not the time to take a chance. I read once in one of those prophesy books, that Catholics should stay where God has placed you in the end time period.

Thats it Myrna! Years ago when times were better, it seemed doable to relocate. Coming to the Northwest always meant taking a cut in pay, but jobs were out there.
Today, its ѕυιcιdє financially to relocate without a job offer.