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Author Topic: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?  (Read 5604 times)

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Offline rum

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Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2023, 05:35:38 PM »
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  • Yes- they admit to the wax coatings, but still, why is that necessary? If God can preserve the bodies for hundreds of years, why the need to protect the incorrupt from "corruption" once discovered? Seems an oxymoron. Or if the bodies are partially corrupted already and they need some "sprucing up", is it truly a miracle any longer?
    If incorrupt saints bodies are miraculous evidence of God Himself,  I'm sure the bodies would be perfectly preserved in every way.
    Otherwise , just like NO Eucharistic miracles , they become suspect and actually do more harm than good for those looking to believe.
    Great post! Yes, why is that necessary? You're one of the few I can count on to post good stuff.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #61 on: May 29, 2023, 06:56:01 PM »
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  • Yes- they admit to the wax coatings, but still, why is that necessary? If God can preserve the bodies for hundreds of years, why the need to protect the incorrupt from "corruption" once discovered? Seems an oxymoron. Or if the bodies are partially corrupted already and they need some "sprucing up", is it truly a miracle any longer?
    If incorrupt saints bodies are miraculous evidence of God Himself,  I'm sure the bodies would be perfectly preserved in every way.
    Otherwise , just like NO Eucharistic miracles , they become suspect and actually do more harm than good for those looking to believe.

    It's probably like makeup for the deceased ... for aesthetic purposes.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #62 on: May 29, 2023, 07:19:49 PM »
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  • It's probably like makeup for the deceased ... for aesthetic purposes.
    Well, I really think we need to see what “incorrupt” looks like without any wax embellishments. Otherwise it could be likened to Madame Tussaud’s.( meaning a lot can be done with wax)

    PS - Isn’t this ALL about aesthetics ; the physical appearance of the uncorrupted corpse? Isn’t that the miracle? 

    Offline rum

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #63 on: May 29, 2023, 08:20:31 PM »
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  • Well, I really think we need to see what “incorrupt” looks like without any wax embellishments. Otherwise it could be likened to Madame Tussaud’s.( meaning a lot can be done with wax)

    PS - Isn’t this ALL about aesthetics ; the physical appearance of the uncorrupted corpse? Isn’t that the miracle?
    Exactly Josefa.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #64 on: May 29, 2023, 10:50:06 PM »
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  • Chiesa Viva studied Padre Pio's shrine thoroughly and found a multitude of satanic symbolism.

    New church masonic temple
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    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies


    Online Kephapaulos

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #65 on: May 29, 2023, 11:04:01 PM »
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  • I had thought that incorruptibility would mean that the body itself does not decay in itself, but that does not mean outside elements can affect it at all, if I understand correctly.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #66 on: May 29, 2023, 11:47:05 PM »
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  • I had thought that incorruptibility would mean that the body itself does not decay in itself, but that does not mean outside elements can affect it at all, if I understand correctly.
    Indeed, this is why in validated cases of incorruption, the body is kept in a protective case for display, unlike the case on Sr Wilhelmina where any person can touch her. I was trying to make this clear when I wrote about the Servant of God, Eileen O'Connor in Replies 42 and 43.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #67 on: May 30, 2023, 12:48:25 AM »
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  • I understand the case - even a negative pressure and temp controlled glass encasement, but I do not understand the wax.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #68 on: May 30, 2023, 06:04:16 AM »
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  • I understand the case - even a negative pressure and temp controlled glass encasement, but I do not understand the wax.

    I'm not sure, but it's probably the same reason that funeral homes put various types of makeup onto the deceased for open-casket funerals or viewing, since some people might have an aversion to the appearance of a body that had not been prepared in such a manner.  If you're coming to a funeral home to pay your respects, I think it would be offputting and disedifying to see the person partially-decomposed, or even just looking bad due to the natural process of death.  So I imagine that's the thinking behind the wax.  If someone is coming to pray before the body of a departed saint, it may not be particularly edifying to see some of the "defects" that might be covered by wax, i.e. if the body appears even slightly repugnant in some way.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #69 on: May 30, 2023, 08:44:07 AM »
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  • Maybe I live in lala land, but I thought the miraculous intervention of God sustaining the tissue of a body would be enough .Doesn't God know what is acceptable for the public's eyes ?  
    I'm just having a hard time accepting that God does not do an adequate job and needs our tweaking.

    A corpse in a funeral home is not incorrupt and needs all the help it can get.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #70 on: May 30, 2023, 09:32:31 AM »
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  • I'm not sure, but it's probably the same reason that funeral homes put various types of makeup onto the deceased for open-casket funerals or viewing, since some people might have an aversion to the appearance of a body that had not been prepared in such a manner.  If you're coming to a funeral home to pay your respects, I think it would be offputting and disedifying to see the person partially-decomposed, or even just looking bad due to the natural process of death.  So I imagine that's the thinking behind the wax.  If someone is coming to pray before the body of a departed saint, it may not be particularly edifying to see some of the "defects" that might be covered by wax, i.e. if the body appears even slightly repugnant in some way.
    I have been to many funerals, and the restoration varies widely.  One elderly man, who had been very sick, looked very, very dead, he was a shade of green.  (I'm assuming he had been embalmed.)  Not pleasant to look at.  When my father passed, he had been ravaged by illness, and just to be blunt, I know too much about what they do in the embalming and restoration process, so I chose not to see him.  There may have been issues, as the funeral director did not challenge my wish not to see him, and agreed that "what you see, you can't unsee".  He had simple crypt-side rites and chose not to have a Requiem Mass, a wish I honored even though I did not agree with it.  (A traditional priest later offered a Requiem Mass for him, which I arranged some time after his death, along with thirty Gregorian Masses offered by Fr Horvath of the SSPX.)  We did not have a visitation or viewing.


    Offline Mr G

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    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #72 on: May 31, 2023, 08:19:33 PM »
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    Statement from Bishop McKnight regarding the remains of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster

    May 26, 2023 | Media Release, News

    https://diojeffcity.org/blog/2023/05/26/statement-from-bishop-mcknight-regarding-the-remains-of-sister-wilhelmina-lancaster/

    The Most Reverend W. Shawn McKnight, Bishop of Jefferson City, has issued the following statement regarding the remains of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster:

    I want to briefly address the interest in our neighboring diocese regarding the mortal remains of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster, the foundress of the Benedictine Abbey in Gower, Missouri. Her remains were recently exhumed by the order to be moved to their chapel.

    This enthusiasm makes it clear there is a deep hunger in our society for the miraculous — a desire to see the power of God with our own eyes.

    But with this excitement comes a need for caution. The Most Reverend James V. Johnston, Bishop of Kansas City — St. Joseph, who has pastoral responsibility for the monastery, has announced he is creating a process to understand the nature of the condition of Sister Wilhelmina’s remains. You can read his message here.

    Our Catholic Church has procedures to investigate purported miracles and the causes for sainthood. It is important to remember these processes are slow, prudent efforts.  There has been no declaration of a miracle, nor has the process to consider the cause for canonization of Sr. Wilhelmina Lancaster begun based upon heroic virtues.

    For these reasons, and for the concerns of civic authorities for the safety and well-being of visitors, I discourage anyone in the Diocese of Jefferson City from visiting the Benedictine Abbey in Gower, Missouri, or treating the mortal remains of Sister Wilhelmina as relics.

    As we pray and wait, I want to again acknowledge the natural desire to experience the miraculous.

    If you are feeling this right now, please seek out the Eucharist. The real presence of Christ in our celebration of the Mass and in our reception of His Body and Blood in sacramental communion is the true center of our faith. Everything else is secondary.

    Please also seek out sacramental reconciliation and experience the miracle of God’s forgiveness.

    These sacraments are available to all of us at our local parish church.

    I also join Bishop Johnston in his call inviting everyone to continue their prayers for the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles; for all women religious; and all the baptized in our common vocation to holiness, with hope and trust in the Lord.


    This is the novus ordo bishop of the neighboring diocese.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #73 on: May 31, 2023, 09:48:31 PM »
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  • This is the novus ordo bishop of the neighboring diocese.

    Very surprising coming from a Conciliar bishop, especially in its advice to seek out Our Lord (and the "miraculous") in the Blessed Sacrament, and it does typify the mind of the Church, one of extreme caution and reservation of judgment.  As I said, if upon investigation some natural cause were found or, worse, some fraud, the busloads of Catholics showing up there on "pilgrimage" would serve to discredit the Church and also the legitimate / true incorruptibles.

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #74 on: June 14, 2023, 01:25:50 PM »
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  • I just stumbled across this video of a protestant man reporting on Sr. Wilhelmina. I found his reactions quite interesting.

    Kennedy Hall did a video where he says that the Sisters are now reporting both physical cures and spiritual conversions. They say the cures are being investigated. I knew such reports were inevitable.