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Author Topic: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?  (Read 5603 times)

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Offline CathSarto

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Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2023, 07:08:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Merry on May 28, 2023, 08:41:33 PM
    These nuns are serviced by the FSSP - Fraternity of St. Peter.  Are they not attached to Modernist Rome and local Novus Ordo Archbishops?

    Do these nuns oppose Vatican II?  How "orthodox" are they - or is it "smells and bells"?  Yes, it matters.

    Holiness now, lies in orthodoxy, in addition to piety, etc.
    No.  Their chaplain is a novus ordo priest of the diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph, Fr. Matthew Bartulica. 

    It is my understanding that they do not pray the Divine Office, but more of an abbreviated liturgy of the hours. 

    A visitor to the convent reported that when asked if the sisters would adopt the novus ordo missae if directed by the Vatican, the answer from the Mother was affirmative.  This is third hand information, take it or leave it. 
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    Offline CathSarto

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #46 on: May 29, 2023, 07:09:20 AM »
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    • At least this N.O. Bishop has the sense to make this statement:

    Bishop’s May 26 statement regarding Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster
    POSTED ON MAY 26, 2023 IN NEWS
    The condition of the remains of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster has understandably generated widespread interest and raised important questions. At the same time, it is important to protect the integrity of the mortal remains of Sister Wilhelmina to allow for a thorough investigation.
    The Church has an established process for determining if someone is a saint and worthy of veneration. No such process has yet been initiated on behalf of Sister Wilhelmina. It is understandable that many would be driven by faith and devotion to see the mortal remains of Sister Wilhelmina given the remarkable condition of her body, but visitors should not touch or venerate her body, or treat them as relics.
    I invite all the Faithful to continue praying during this time of evaluation and determination for God’s will in the lives of the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles; for all women religious; and all the baptized in our common vocation to holiness, with hope and trust in the Lord.
    Bishop James V. Johnston, Jr.


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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #47 on: May 29, 2023, 08:19:09 AM »
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    • I have a few comments about incorruptibility and what I've seen. I've personally seen St Catherine of Laboure and she is fresh and alive looking- her eyes are even open a bit. The pictures of Bernadette show a young women who looks like she is apparently sleeping as she is so well preserved.  Why then does the Church put a coating of wax on an ongoing miracle?  Why "preserve" what God already has ? I don't get it..

    I've also seen others that were declared incorrupt, like Mother Cabrini for example. She looks like petrified dead wood. Why does the Church do this? When someone is obviously NOT incorrupt and the claim is that they are, it does NOT instill faith- quite the contrary.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #48 on: May 29, 2023, 09:47:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on May 29, 2023, 08:19:09 AM
    I have a few comments about incorruptibility and what I've seen. I've personally seen St Catherine of Laboure and she is fresh and alive looking- her eyes are even open a bit. The pictures of Bernadette show a young women who looks like she is apparently sleeping as she is so well preserved.  Why then does the Church put a coating of wax on an ongoing miracle?  Why "preserve" what God already has ? I don't get it..

    I've also seen others that were declared incorrupt, like Mother Cabrini for example. She looks like petrified dead wood. Why does the Church do this? When someone is obviously NOT incorrupt and the claim is that they are, it does NOT instill faith- quite the contrary.
     It's possibly for aesthetic reasons, to keep from freaking out pilgrims (pace Mother Cabrini), or to show reverence for the saint, as if to say "yes, she's incorrupt, but she looks better if we are able to enhance her appearance a bit".
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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #49 on: May 29, 2023, 10:00:26 AM »
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    • Is it just me or do the hands in this picture of her look fake/man-made?

    Vs...  Saint Maria Goretti...
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #50 on: May 29, 2023, 10:50:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: AMDGJMJ on May 29, 2023, 10:00:26 AM
    Is it just me or do the hands in this picture of her look fake/man-made?

    There's an extremely thick layer of wax on her hands.  Are they hiding something?  NO bishop asked them not to mess with the body so they could conduct a proper investigation, but they appear to have ignored him.
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #51 on: May 29, 2023, 11:57:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: AMDGJMJ on May 29, 2023, 10:00:26 AM
    Is it just me or do the hands in this picture of her look fake/man-made?

    Vs...  Saint Maria Goretti...


    https://mariagoretti.com/the-body/



    Quote
    The Reliquary

    St. Maria’s remains are inside a glass-sided casket.  Inside the casket is a wax statue within which repose her skeletal remains.


    [ . . . ]


    Is St. Maria Goretti’s Body Incorrupt?

    It is often incorrectly reported that St. Maria’s body is “incorrupt”.


    [ . . . ]


    St. Maria Goretti’s body is not incorrupt.  It experienced natural degradation when it was interred in the cemetery of Nettuno, Italy, following her murder.  Thus, making this pilgrimage is not her flesh but simply her skeletal remains.





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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #52 on: May 29, 2023, 12:01:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on May 29, 2023, 08:19:09 AM
    The pictures of Bernadette show a young women who looks like she is apparently sleeping as she is so well preserved.  Why then does the Church put a coating of wax on an ongoing miracle?  Why "preserve" what God already has ? I don't get it..



    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/body-of-st-bernadette-of-lourdes-5236




    Quote
    THE BODY OF SAINT BERNADETTE OF LOURDES

    Andre Ravier, S.J.

    Based on docuмents in the archives of the convent of Saint-Gildard, of the diocese and the city of Nevers


    Very fine wax masks were laid over the face and hands of St. Bernadette's body in 1925 to disguise the sunken eyes and nose and the blackish tinge to the face and hands. During the first exhumation (1909) the face had been "a dull white" and the hands "perfectly preserved" but the nose was already "dilated and shrunken". The eyes were not noted as having yet sunk. She died on April 16, 1879. Her body has not been embalmed or specially treated in any way.



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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #53 on: May 29, 2023, 12:55:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 29, 2023, 10:50:57 AM
    There's an extremely thick layer of wax on her hands.  Are they hiding something?  NO bishop asked them not to mess with the body so they could conduct a proper investigation, but they appear to have ignored him.
    That is indeed a lot of wax.  Not clear why they're doing that.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #54 on: May 29, 2023, 12:58:47 PM »
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    • I have a first-class relic of St Maria Goretti, a small chip of bone (<1mm) in a theca.

    So, no, she's not incorrupt.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #55 on: May 29, 2023, 12:59:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 29, 2023, 12:01:14 PM


    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/body-of-st-bernadette-of-lourdes-5236
    Yes- that shows signs of corruption....it's like saying that God couldn't keep up the miracle or something....right.

    Unless a body is perfectly preserved without the "help" of wax or other cosmetic means, that is the only true miracle of incorruptibility.
    Otherwise, why even go there?
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    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #56 on: May 29, 2023, 01:14:40 PM »
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    • As the days proceed, and as I get a little information here or there, I think I can agree with the expressed opinion that this has been mishandled by the convent. It's possibly a publicity stunt/fundraising gimmick, caused by a real lack of modesty and prudence. The question looms - what if she now begins to decay? What artificial means will they employ to conceal it, to save face? Why put her under glass, instead of re-inter her, as originally planned? Why not re-bury her inside the church and examine her again in a year or two? Why the santo subito? 

    The convent's behavior has not coincided with the wisdom of the Church. They have acted independently, and prematurely, at the opportune time of needing money to build an edifice. One might even say they are acting like feminists, who revolt against having a power over their heads. They are also acting like Madison Avenue hawksters, like carnival barkers who know how to work a crowd. 

    If their good housekeeping seal is that they are obedient and under the structure, why did they dare get in front of the "prelature?"

    I'm starting to get a very bad taste in my mouth - the bitter taste of ye olde novus ordo.



     
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    Offline rum

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #57 on: May 29, 2023, 01:29:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on May 29, 2023, 08:19:09 AM
    I have a few comments about incorruptibility and what I've seen. I've personally seen St Catherine of Laboure and she is fresh and alive looking- her eyes are even open a bit. The pictures of Bernadette show a young women who looks like she is apparently sleeping as she is so well preserved.  Why then does the Church put a coating of wax on an ongoing miracle?  Why "preserve" what God already has ? I don't get it..

    I've also seen others that were declared incorrupt, like Mother Cabrini for example. She looks like petrified dead wood. Why does the Church do this? When someone is obviously NOT incorrupt and the claim is that they are, it does NOT instill faith- quite the contrary.

    Good question.

    Though aren't there coatings of wax on all the incorruptibles the Church acknowledges?
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #58 on: May 29, 2023, 04:19:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on May 29, 2023, 08:19:09 AM
    I have a few comments about incorruptibility and what I've seen. I've personally seen St Catherine of Laboure and she is fresh and alive looking- her eyes are even open a bit. The pictures of Bernadette show a young women who looks like she is apparently sleeping as she is so well preserved.  Why then does the Church put a coating of wax on an ongoing miracle?  Why "preserve" what God already has ? I don't get it..

    I've also seen others that were declared incorrupt, like Mother Cabrini for example. She looks like petrified dead wood. Why does the Church do this? When someone is obviously NOT incorrupt and the claim is that they are, it does NOT instill faith- quite the contrary.
    When we saw St Bernadette, I asked why they put wax on a miracle and they answered that,even in the glass case, dust settled and they didn't want to risk damage to the delicate skin by dusting it. In this recent situation, the sisters said the casket had cracked at the bottom, allowing dampness in and the body was intact, but with a covering of mold.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #59 on: May 29, 2023, 05:15:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: rum on May 29, 2023, 01:29:28 PM
    Good question.

    Though aren't there coatings of wax on all the incorruptibles the Church acknowledges?
    Yes- they admit to the wax coatings, but still, why is that necessary? If God can preserve the bodies for hundreds of years, why the need to protect the incorrupt from "corruption" once discovered? Seems an oxymoron. Or if the bodies are partially corrupted already and they need some "sprucing up", is it truly a miracle any longer?
    If incorrupt saints bodies are miraculous evidence of God Himself,  I'm sure the bodies would be perfectly preserved in every way.
    Otherwise , just like NO Eucharistic miracles , they become suspect and actually do more harm than good for those looking to believe.
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