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Author Topic: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?  (Read 6969 times)

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Offline Soubirous

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Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2023, 12:41:52 PM »
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  • It may be God's answer to the LA Dodgers stunt. The timing of this.

    Maybe that, but the timing fittingly coincides with the anniversary of the George Floyd fiasco, and the current backlash against the good guy arrested in NYC in the Jordan Neely incident, and also the news of BLM going bankrupt (financially, they've been morally bankrupt from day one), and the NAACP declaring Florida a no-go zone, and the latest social media trend of teens of a certain hue gleefully harassing whites for kicks and clicks, and the start of another long hot summer in the US and Europe too.

    If the Lord sees fit to utilize the corporal remains of a black lady in order to reach some small number among the more spiritually receptive descendants of Ham, then I'm not going to argue against it.  
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Online Incredulous

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #16 on: May 27, 2023, 02:05:06 PM »
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  • Do you mean that he was canonized by John Paul II and that his shrine is Novus Ordo?

    Chiesa Viva studied Padre Pio's shrine thoroughly and found a multitude of satanic symbolism.

    New church masonic temple
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Merry

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #17 on: May 27, 2023, 03:20:42 PM »
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  • https://gab.com/CompleteChristianity/posts/110440769165722262


    Shane Schaetzel@CompleteChristianity

    7h··🚨 Breaking News·Traditional Catholics



    ATTENTION TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS: You may have heard about Sister Mary Wilhelmina OSB, of the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles, whose body was found incorrupt in recent days. What you may not know is the order is in the process of raising funds for a new monastery in Ava, Missouri, which is about 1 hour southeast of Springfield, Missouri in the beautiful Ozark Mountains. This will be a TLM monastery. If you're willing to donate, please do, but even more importantly, if you're looking to build a new Traditional Catholic community, centered around a small town within reasonable driving distance of a midsize city, you may have just found your match. There are already a number of Traditional Catholics in the area. Ava could become a colony. Is it right for you? Pray about it and see. 




    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #18 on: May 27, 2023, 05:03:07 PM »
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  • https://gab.com/CompleteChristianity/posts/110440769165722262


    Shane Schaetzel@CompleteChristianity

    7h··🚨 Breaking News·Traditional Catholics



    ATTENTION TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS: You may have heard about Sister Mary Wilhelmina OSB, of the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles, whose body was found incorrupt in recent days. What you may not know is the order is in the process of raising funds for a new monastery in Ava, Missouri, which is about 1 hour southeast of Springfield, Missouri in the beautiful Ozark Mountains. This will be a TLM monastery. If you're willing to donate, please do, but even more importantly, if you're looking to build a new Traditional Catholic community, centered around a small town within reasonable driving distance of a midsize city, you may have just found your match. There are already a number of Traditional Catholics in the area. Ava could become a colony. Is it right for you? Pray about it and see.

    I've been saying trad Catholics need to go to the Ozarks. It gives me some hope to finally hear about this potential dynamic. 
    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #19 on: May 27, 2023, 05:30:06 PM »
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  • Chiesa Viva studied Padre Pio's shrine thoroughly and found a multitude of satanic symbolism.

    New church masonic temple
    Yes, this was done after Padre Pio's death.
    He is in no way responsible for what they did after he died.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #20 on: May 27, 2023, 06:11:26 PM »
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  • Here's why I'm a little skeptical.  I don't doubt that she was a good woman in general and had the best intentions, but 4 years just doesn't seem all that long to me to declare incorruption.

    https://www.livescience.com/how-long-bodies-take-to-decompose
    Quote
    Although the process of decomposition starts within minutes of death, there are a number of variables, including the ambient temperature, soil acidity and coffin materials, which can affect how long it takes a body to skeletonize. However, on average, a body buried within a typical coffin usually starts to break down within a year, but takes up to a decade to fully decompose, leaving only the skeleton, Daniel Wescott, director of the Forensic Anthropology Center at Texas State University, told Live Science.

    A body buried without a coffin, which doesn't have protection from insects and other elements, typically skeletonizes within five years, according to Nicholas Passalacqua, an associate professor at the Forensic Osteology Research Station at Western Carolina University.
    ...
    "If they're embalmed, it can really change things," Wescott told Live Science.

    As an example, he pointed to the case of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers, who was buried in 1963 after being embalmed. When his body was exhumed for evidence in a 1991 murder trial, Wescott said, "his body was so well preserved that they let his son in to see him."

    For those who are embalmed and buried in a coffin, five to 10 years is a more typical decomposition timeline, he said. At that point, the tissue is gone and only bones remain.
    ...
    Chemotherapy and antibiotics used prior to death also can have a huge impact on decay, because both kill off some of the bacteria involved in the process.

    As odd as it sounds, the coffin's liner might also have an influence on the pace of decomposition, Wescott said. Some materials wick fluid away from the body and could cause it to dry out, and even mummify more quickly.

    Do we have proof that there was no amount of embalming involved?  Let's say she asked not to be fully embalmed, but did the funeral home do something to prevent her from decaying for her funeral?

    Could she have been on some meds, such as antibiotics, which would have slowed things down?

    Also, according to the reports, the liner material of the coffin was decayed.  See above where it states that if the coffin liner material absorbs liquid, it could wick water away from the body, allowing it to dry out and mummify.  This seems even more likely given that her habit had not corrupted either (unless that were part of the miracle).

    Alternatively, was this wooden coffin per chance made of cedar wood?  Cedar is actually a natural insect repellant that would keep insects away from the body.

    Too many variables here to be declaring a miracle after only 4 years.  Had she been exhumed 15-20 years after her death, that would be a different story, but even then one couldn't rule out some kind of ruse, either human or diabolical.  Could someone have had her embalmed anyway, despite her alleged wishes, in an attempt to set up the entire incorruptibility scenario?  Why did they exhume her now after 4 years?  Were they expecting to find something?  Certainly this situation has brought them national recognition and also undoubtedly an influx of donations and money.  Could it have been set up ahead of time?  So not only can we not rule out simple natural conditions, we can't rule out human deception, and then even if those two could be ruled out, there's always the possible diabolical intervention.

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #21 on: May 27, 2023, 06:40:37 PM »
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  • Here's why I'm a little skeptical.  I don't doubt that she was a good woman in general and had the best intentions, but 4 years just doesn't seem all that long to me to declare incorruption.

    https://www.livescience.com/how-long-bodies-take-to-decompose
    Do we have proof that there was no amount of embalming involved?  Let's say she asked not to be fully embalmed, but did the funeral home do something to prevent her from decaying for her funeral?

    Could she have been on some meds, such as antibiotics, which would have slowed things down?

    Also, according to the reports, the liner material of the coffin was decayed.  See above where it states that if the coffin liner material absorbs liquid, it could wick water away from the body, allowing it to dry out and mummify.  This seems even more likely given that her habit had not corrupted either (unless that were part of the miracle).

    Alternatively, was this wooden coffin per chance made of cedar wood?  Cedar is actually a natural insect repellant that would keep insects away from the body.

    Too many variables here to be declaring a miracle after only 4 years.  Had she been exhumed 15-20 years after her death, that would be a different story, but even then one couldn't rule out some kind of ruse, either human or diabolical.  Could someone have had her embalmed anyway, despite her alleged wishes, in an attempt to set up the entire incorruptibility scenario?  Why did they exhume her now after 4 years?  Were they expecting to find something?  Certainly this situation has brought them national recognition and also undoubtedly an influx of donations and money.  Could it have been set up ahead of time?  So not only can we not rule out simple natural conditions, we can't rule out human deception, and then even if those two could be ruled out, there's always the possible diabolical intervention.

    Thank you for your ideas. Of course, we should be prudent, and not pronounce a miracle prematurely.

    In your earlier post, you mentioned that you were not sure that four years would be enough for a habit to decay. I do recall hearing, most likely in one of the videos I posted, that the coffin liner was made of the exact same material as her habit; and that it had indeed decayed.

    I know very little about human decomposition. I do know that the fluids collect at the bottom. I presume we all have worms and other parasitical organisms inside our bodies, bacteria being not the least, so that the good sister brought her own decomposition kit to the party.

    We have been told that the wooden casket was broken, split, I think. If this is true, then without any question, water, moisture, and decomposers from the soil had access to the habit and the body, especially the exposed parts.

    Did you watch, Lad, the very last video I posted, taken by the woman with the cell phone? You get an excellent view of the body, and it is really in remarkable condition.

    If we take the facts as reported by the convent for the truth - and we have no evidence yet to indicate they are lying - then we do have reasonable cause, at least to marvel at an anomaly.

    I think it is our Catholic duty to accept the facts as reported by the convent, absent any material evidence to the contrary. Otherwise it would be a rash suspicion that they may be lying, no? Do we not equally have to base both our credulity and our incredulity on some material evidence?

    _______________________________________________________

    With regard to Dodgers, wokedom sacred cows, etc., besides my above take on the "Nigra sum" symbology, there is a bit of irony in all this; and that our God is certainly capable of. For He is the Master of irony. 

    Bergoglio is trying to wash away all vestiges of the Latin Mass under his circus tent. God, in His turn, reveals what may turn out to be a bona fide case of miraculous incorruption, firmly set in the midst of the camp of the novus ordo traditionalists. Bergoglio is checkmated perhaps, because the incorrupt one is black, a member of his wokish victim class, a reparation claimant. How could he assail one of his own sacred cows? It's too rich. The irony itself is a piece of circuмstantial evidence in favor of a Divine origin of the phenomenon. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #22 on: May 27, 2023, 10:05:10 PM »
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  • I think it is our Catholic duty to accept the facts as reported by the convent, absent any material evidence to the contrary. Otherwise it would be a rash suspicion that they may be lying, no?

    I can't agree with you there, Simeon.  Church's default attitude is always one of skepticism.  Imagine if it turns out that there is some natural explanation or, worse, some fraud involved.  That would serve to discredit the Church, and discredit the genuine incorruptibles.  Just think about it for a second.  Let's say that everyone jumps on the bandwagon and people start going to see her by the busload ... and then it's found out that the funeral home director actually did a bit of preservation on her or, worse, that she was fully embalmed and that was covered up with the intent that she would be found mysteriously incorruptible a few years later when exhumed so as to draw publicity and money to their convent.  Imagine the mockery and derision the Church would be subjected to as a result.  Not saying that's the case, but stranger things have happened.  Or, alternatively, you had the case of the possessed nun, Sister Magadalena, through whom Satan worked many miracles and had half the Catholic world fooled.  In any case, I hold that there's no miracle until proven otherwise.

    It is our "Catholic duty," as you put it only to believe what the Church teaches.  We're bound to accept Public Revelation, not private.  To me this is a false charity to hold that we are bound to consider this above board and legitimate.  How many people have been snookered by false private revelations, especially in the last few decades?

    I think that the danger of falling for a false private revelation far outweighs any harm done by not believing in it.  We have everything we need.  Our Lord spoke of the generation weak in faith seeking signs.  We have the greatest of all possible miracles in front of us at every Mass and in the tabernacle at all times, compared to which an incorruptible body or any outward Eucharistic miracle are but nothing.  Someone who has true faith, if given a chance to see Padre Pio's stigmata and to go into a chapel to visit Our Lord in the tabernacle, would opt for the latter.  In fact, Padre Pio complained that his brother priests often went without so much as having an altar server because everyone flocked to his Masses, when Our Lord is just as present in the Masses of those other priests.


    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #23 on: May 27, 2023, 11:04:49 PM »
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  • I can't agree with you there, Simeon.  Church's default attitude is always one of skepticism.  Imagine if it turns out that there is some natural explanation or, worse, some fraud involved.  That would serve to discredit the Church, and discredit the genuine incorruptibles.  Just think about it for a second.  Let's say that everyone jumps on the bandwagon and people start going to see her by the busload ... and then it's found out that the funeral home director actually did a bit of preservation on her or, worse, that she was fully embalmed and that was covered up with the intent that she would be found mysteriously incorruptible a few years later when exhumed so as to draw publicity and money to their convent.  Imagine the mockery and derision the Church would be subjected to as a result.  Not saying that's the case, but stranger things have happened.  Or, alternatively, you had the case of the possessed nun, Sister Magadalena, through whom Satan worked many miracles and had half the Catholic world fooled.  In any case, I hold that there's no miracle until proven otherwise.

    It is our "Catholic duty," as you put it only to believe what the Church teaches.  We're bound to accept Public Revelation, not private.  To me this is a false charity to hold that we are bound to consider this above board and legitimate.  How many people have been snookered by false private revelations, especially in the last few decades?

    I think that the danger of falling for a false private revelation far outweighs any harm done by not believing in it.  We have everything we need.  Our Lord spoke of the generation weak in faith seeking signs.  We have the greatest of all possible miracles in front of us at every Mass and in the tabernacle at all times, compared to which an incorruptible body or any outward Eucharistic miracle are but nothing.  Someone who has true faith, if given a chance to see Padre Pio's stigmata and to go into a chapel to visit Our Lord in the tabernacle, would opt for the latter.  In fact, Padre Pio complained that his brother priests often went without so much as having an altar server because everyone flocked to his Masses, when Our Lord is just as present in the Masses of those other priests.

    All very good points. 

    Now let's see if there are any facts which have already been proven incontrovertibly. 

    Is it certain that this sister existed, died, was buried, and that the figure laid out on the table in the church is the very same person? 

    Is there any possibility that the body on the table is not the same as Sr. W? 

    If we can stipulate that the figure on the table is a real corpse, and that it is the real corpse of the same Sr. Wilhelmina, who was buried in that grave four years ago, then I think we have exhausted all that can be proved with certainty at this time. I think I have a duty in charity to believe this on the word of the sisters. Otherwise I call their honesty into question with no basis for it. If it turns out they are lying hucksters, I still did well in initially believing them upon their word. 

    Everything else, however, requires additional proof. We have no duty to believe anything else, especially as we are rapidly leaving the facts and approaching to judgments - judgments which we are not qualified to make. Beyond the mere above-stated facts, we can be as skeptical as we please. 

    And there are going to be problems galore in getting to the bottom of this.  

    1. The convent will want to play a very close hand; so it is hard to know if we will be provided with true and well-established additional facts. 

    2. There does not currently exist any legitimate ecclesiastical juridical or investigative body capable of rendering appropriate findings in the case. If the novus ordo takes control of the investigation, we will absolutely be justified in suspecting them of all kinds of mischief. In fact, once it is out of the hands of the convent, it is no longer going to be a trustworthy proceeding. We will almost have to presume that the investigation will be corrupted. 

    Think about that. 

    Again, just for argument's sake, let us presume the authenticity of the miracle. Let's pretend that a miracle really happened; but there is no one with the requisite authority to render judgment. 

    What would God be doing then?

    I'll supply a possible answer. He may be alerting the faithful that He is moving over the waters. He may be giving a sign to them, not so much to be immediately acted upon, but to be pondered in the heart - a sign to stimulate anticipation. God may be signaling a shift. 



    Offline rum

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #24 on: May 28, 2023, 06:14:44 AM »
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  • Chiesa Viva studied Padre Pio's shrine thoroughly and found a multitude of satanic symbolism.

    New church masonic temple
    Quickly scanning it's a lot to look through, but what I've seen thus far isn't good. Thanks.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #25 on: May 28, 2023, 09:14:46 AM »
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  • I've been saying trad Catholics need to go to the Ozarks. It gives me some hope to finally hear about this potential dynamic.

    Agreed. The Ozarks are beautiful. Tornados do, however, cause destruction down there at times; but the Benedictines probably won't have a problem with that. 

    My dad was raised in the Ozarks, in West Plains, and I had at one time a lot of cousins in Neosho, Joplin and Monett. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #26 on: May 28, 2023, 09:38:26 AM »
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  • Agreed. The Ozarks are beautiful. Tornados do, however, cause destruction down there at times;
    I'd rather deal with the (really not too often) threat of tornados in Ozarks than the moral & cultural threat of Babylon in most other regions of the U.S.
     
    Just have a home with a basement or build a storm shelter in your yard; and have a decent weather/emergency radio. 
    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #27 on: May 28, 2023, 09:47:47 AM »
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  • I'd rather deal with the (really not too often) threat of tornados in Ozarks than the moral & cultural threat of Babylon in most other regions of the U.S.
     
    Just have a home with a basement or build a storm shelter in your yard; and have a decent weather/emergency radio.

    Yes, very true. One just needs to make the effort building a storm shelter and having an emergency radio on hand. I agree that the moral degradation in most other regions of the U.S. is a huge problem. I just remember that the Walmart in Joplin was completely destroyed by a tornado a year after my husband and I stopped and shopped there about 13 years ago. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #28 on: May 28, 2023, 10:16:59 AM »
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  • Bergoglio is trying to wash away all vestiges of the Latin Mass under his circus tent. God, in His turn, reveals what may turn out to be a bona fide case of miraculous incorruption, firmly set in the midst of the camp of the novus ordo traditionalists. Bergoglio is checkmated perhaps, because the incorrupt one is black, a member of his wokish victim class, a reparation claimant. How could he assail one of his own sacred cows? It's too rich. The irony itself is a piece of circuмstantial evidence in favor of a Divine origin of the phenomenon.
    You absolutely nail it here.  Bravo!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sr. Wilhelmina Incorrupt?
    « Reply #29 on: May 28, 2023, 11:40:31 AM »
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  • Again, just for argument's sake, let us presume the authenticity of the miracle. Let's pretend that a miracle really happened; but there is no one with the requisite authority to render judgment.

    What would God be doing then?

    I'll supply a possible answer. He may be alerting the faithful that He is moving over the waters. He may be giving a sign to them, not so much to be immediately acted upon, but to be pondered in the heart - a sign to stimulate anticipation. God may be signaling a shift.

    I wouldn't know what God's intentions would be.  Most of us obviously don't need any reinforcement regarding the Tridentine Mass and traditional observances at monasteries and convents.  For those who are hostile to Tradition, I don't think that they'll be persuaded along those lines.  They'll interpret the miracle along the lines of their wokeness ... that it's God's endorsement of Black people, and a sign that God is now woke.  It would be one thing if we had a living Padre Pio who would then denounce Bergoglio and company, but with this silent witness, people can and will interpret it any way they please.