Author Topic: An exhortation (Read 4206 times)

Ancilla_Indigna · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2007, 04:42:22 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Being tougn on error is one thing -- resorting to violence is another (slashing off peoples' ears, killing non-Catholics).

It is not charity to let someone live on in error -- however, fraternal correction must be done with prudence. It must be done with humility, tact, and knowing that the person might listen to you.

Matthew

The thing about that is, you don't always know who might listen to you, when it is a forum, since there's more than one person present. Even those that are present often put on a fascade to pretend to be something they are not just to win over 'friends'

***edit**** ... I wasn't too clear here, but I agree with you totally.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2007, 04:53:08 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

How is your mother, Keph? I keep praying for her and never hear if she made it through alright.

Well, I believe she is hanging in there. Thank you for your prayers. Since you mention my mother now, I am thinking of starting another thread to ask for prayers concerning her.

Ancilla_Indigna · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2007, 11:29:38 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Being tougn on error is one thing -- resorting to violence is another (slashing off peoples' ears, killing non-Catholics).

It is not charity to let someone live on in error -- however, fraternal correction must be done with prudence. It must be done with humility, tact, and knowing that the person might listen to you.

Matthew

I just had a thought! LOL

And I never considered this before, but does anyone here think that, perhaps, there is symbolism in the fact that Peter cut off an ear to punish the soldier coming for Jesus?

What was Peter doing just earlier? He was sleeping, and right after our Lord asked him to stay awake with him in prayer. Wow. How many times to we sleep, feeling that we've done enough according to our state (when we really haven't) to keep watch with our Lord, being always mindful of his Presence, also within other who receive him?

So, Peter whips out a sword and slices off his opponents ear. The ear, perhaps, here has further significance, in that it is the method in which people hear. But even just the outer ear, which is both a symbol of what it does interiorly, and also we expect people to have ears. Someone with one less ear, for example, is pitied. Peter, in his rage, sought to punish his opponent through giving him a public humiliation. Perhaps, Peter did this as just a hot-head, as our Lord recognized was a trait of Peter in a nickname he had given him (I can't remember what it was now, "Thunder"?) This bitter zeal does not allow for one to discern the holy Will of God. Many of us do not have the authority to wield the cord in lashing out the temple dwellers profaning the House of Our Lord, for example.

It is also important to be mindful that even withholding the sword, but speaking truth itself, even in the most careful 'tone', the truth will divide. Our Lord describes himself as not bringing peace, but rather "the sword of truth" that will divide. Since some seed will fall on rocky ground, it is not possible that every word will be received in the same way. Often, as when it comes to lifestyles, morality is perceived as a threat to freedom, and such a threat when posed, regardless of tone, will be responded to with hostility. (This is particularly the case with regards to issues of purity, since it's enemy is lack of temperance.)

This is pretty cool to consider (I got this from:
Question 55. Vices opposed to prudence by way of resemblance

I think this is useful to consider prudence in speech, and also on another level, the very virtue that is sought against directly on another forum. It's interesting, that one could fight against something yet be unwittingly supporting it in their actions, as a result of not understanding it's root.

I'm only going to include here the information to prudence (according to St. Thomas):
Prudence
PRUDENCE ITSELF: The virtue of prudence (47)

PARTS: The parts (48) of prudence. Each quasi-integral part (49) of prudence. The subjective parts (50) of prudence; especially the prudence with which a man rules himself (see 47), and that with which he rules others (50). The quasi-potential parts (51) of prudence, that is, the related virtues.
GIFT: The corresponding gift of prudence, which is counsel (52).
VICES: The vices opposed to prudence, some of which are obviously opposed such as imprudence (53) and negligence (54) which is opposed to solicitude; and others which bear a false resemblance (55) to prudence.

PRECEPTS: The precepts concerning prudence (56).

gilbertgea · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2007, 06:44:51 PM »

'As one of your converts, I'm willing to testify, Gee ilbert.'

Wow. Base mockery? I see nothing is beheath you.

'Ever since you decided to "make (me) see reason", I have had first hand experience of your skills in converting people.'

a. It is, apparently, impossible to help you see reason.

b. I am wholly uninterested in converting anyone. As this is a Catholic forum, I would think that would be unnecessary here.

'We could talk about the toxicity level you bring to the process...'

We could talk about, oh, say your sedevacantism and your Americanism and the fact that they -- and your emotionalism -- cloud your judgement. Thus far, I've kept the debate impersonal and focused on the argument, not the person making it.

But, patience is not a virtue I possess in any abundance.

'Anyone who takes on the job of forming souls needs more than his own mouth for credentials.'

I wonder how an implied and supposed lack of credentials tallies up against, say, Sedevacantism, Americanism, and emotionalism...?

'It is not charity to let someone live on in error -- however, fraternal correction must be done with prudence. It must be done with humility, tact, and knowing that the person might listen to you.'

The effectiveness of fraternal correction is directly related to the willingness of both the 'correcter' and the 'correctee' to set aside their Pride and focus on Catholic truth.