Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Disputaciones on July 07, 2024, 12:46:34 PM
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Has anybody tried this? Anybody currently uses it?
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Tried it, but was not a fan. We found systems that worked better for us.
I have heard others who've done it successfully and would do so again.
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How old is the child?
I used this book when I had babies. It worked well for us.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjDxPCKxpWHAxX-T0cBHdiNAtgYABAEGgJxdQ&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-ai0BhDPARIsAB6hmP7zZ9AyH00waN2mV32CRyMaNdIKoJrQOeAsrGtwIuwj2MqkIseCt3kaAnTCEALw_wcB&sph&sig=AOD64_3-2lQyaQiRqnkvtsggR0EWnRCyRQ&rct=j&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjImeqKxpWHAxWDEVkFHU8ICP0Q0Qx6BAgREAE
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How old is the child?
I used this book when I had babies. It worked well for us.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjDxPCKxpWHAxX-T0cBHdiNAtgYABAEGgJxdQ&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-ai0BhDPARIsAB6hmP7zZ9AyH00waN2mV32CRyMaNdIKoJrQOeAsrGtwIuwj2MqkIseCt3kaAnTCEALw_wcB&sph&sig=AOD64_3-2lQyaQiRqnkvtsggR0EWnRCyRQ&rct=j&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjImeqKxpWHAxWDEVkFHU8ICP0Q0Qx6BAgREAE
11 months.
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How old is the child?
I used this book when I had babies. It worked well for us.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjDxPCKxpWHAxX-T0cBHdiNAtgYABAEGgJxdQ&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-ai0BhDPARIsAB6hmP7zZ9AyH00waN2mV32CRyMaNdIKoJrQOeAsrGtwIuwj2MqkIseCt3kaAnTCEALw_wcB&sph&sig=AOD64_3-2lQyaQiRqnkvtsggR0EWnRCyRQ&rct=j&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjImeqKxpWHAxWDEVkFHU8ICP0Q0Qx6BAgREAE
I liked that book, but that system didn't really work for me either. The Eat-Activity-Sleep-You system was always E-A-E-S-Y for my babies. That was alright for me, but it didn't result in anything astonishing like sleeping through the night.
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I liked that book, but that system didn't really work for me either. The Eat-Activity-Sleep-You system was always E-A-E-S-Y for my babies. That was alright for me, but it didn't result in anything astonishing like sleeping through the night.
Hey that was the same for me. It helped my first sleep through the night, but as I had more children it started working less. I guess I meant by it worked well was that it relieved some of my stress. It wasn't perfect.
Disputationes, I see your a man, are you asking for a wife or a family member? Sleeping issues are hard and stressful. Do you know other Catholic families who have children? It is hard to help via online because there are so many variables involved.
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The main idea that we use at that age is to slowly work in more than one way of getting to sleep. For babies that age that have only been around Mom, they typically are accustomed to a single routine and don't know any other way. In my experience, Mom won't be able to pull this off alone with anything short of the stress of sleep training. You need someone else to be with baby in a calm setting around the time they'd be getting tired. If that person is Mom, they'll just cry until she initiates the usual routine.
For one of our children, her older siblings were interested in watching Little House on the Prairie, so we let them watch each evening in a slumber party fashion with the baby. She'd fall asleep of course since LHOTP is pretty boring for toddlers. When she'd wake up, I'd put her back to sleep with the usual routines, but it was the beginning of her journey to finding more than one way to get to sleep.
For another child, Matthew was into some TV series at the time and so each day at nap time he'd watch an episode while putting the baby down for a nap. If Dad isn't home during the day, you could try the same at regular bed time. Key component is to be in a different place/situation than they'd normally go to bed so that baby is tricked into sleeping without the usual routine.
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I am of the opinion that sleep training (cry-it-out) could be used if the mom or anyone is so sleep-deprived that it's affecting their ability to function. But generally, babies have "sleep regressions" so I don't know if training a baby to sleep through the night is going to work unless you rely on cry-it-out. We don't have soundproof walls at the moment so when we did try it, it was resulting in less sleep. It's also quite painful hearing your baby screaming to the point when you think they're going to vomit. What did work for us, was cosleeping. Back then, houses were much smaller so you couldn't just put the baby in its own nursery room, shut the door, and walk away. In our current living situation (our house is currently being renovated) the baby had to sleep in the crib with us so a separate room for her was not possible.
Our baby has never taken a pacifier and even if she had one, she wouldn't like it. For every nap and night sleep, I nurse her to sleep. Whenever she cries in the middle of the night, I'll let her fuss and sometimes she'll go back to sleep but most of the time I nurse her to sleep and it only takes a few minutes. We all get better sleep. I recommend getting a co-sleeper bassinet, put the baby in the bed with you (with rails or put the bed against the wall), or do a side-crib (put the crib up against the bed with the railing removed).
Recently, a few months ago, she has gotten bigger and doesn't fit in our queen bed. She sleeps in between my husband and I. I used to think that people who coslept with their babies were weird and kind of reckless, but I was at the point of sleep deprivation that I had to do something. It turned out that she just wanted to near us and that warmth of my arm around her head gave her the ability to fall back asleep without even having to nurse because she knew she was safe. But, when your almost 14-month-old is kicking and thrashing in the middle of the night and every creek in the bed wakes her up, I knew I had to do something.
A week or two ago, I decided to put her in the playpen and lay down with her (on a twin mattress) and nurse her to sleep or just be near her until she falls asleep. And, then I could go to sleep in our master bedroom. She still cries but she sleeps much better and has more space. I don't want to night wean her yet but it'll be a gradual process. I do miss my sleep and it's been more than a year of bad sleep. It's funny but I see these toddlers with pacifiers in their mouths and society can't connect breastfeeding with that, like it's a stigma. Like what did people do before pacifiers were invented? Probably coslept on a floor bed until the next baby came, I donno.
I'm also a first-time mom and I heard that all babies are different, only speaking from personal experience. I don't expect my future babies to be the same and might have to innovate ways for different sleeping arrangements.
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Has anybody tried this? Anybody currently uses it?
We do a mixed version of sleep training. Really it doesn't matter what method you use as long as your find something that works for you and your child. Every child is different but this is our general method:
Our babies usually co-sleep for the first 2-3 months when they want constant reminders of your presence and constant nursing.
Once they start rolling around 3-4 months then they graduate to a bassinet in our room for safety sake (they also tend to sleep a little better with a little distance at this point).
Around 6 months I find that baby and I tend to wake each other up a lot if we are in the same room. So, I then move baby to the nursery (which we also use as a guest room and if we have guests we just put baby temporarily back in our room). The babues would usually still nurses to sleep at this point.
Around 9-12 months we start "sleep training". Basically, I will give them a chance to fall asleep nursing, but if they don't fall asleep I will lay them in their crib and walk away for 15 minutes. If they are still crying after that time I get them and try again when they seem more tired/hungry. Gradually they get used to the system and start accepting it and falling asleep by themselves without crying though they are still awake when I put them down in their crib.
Once they are "sleep-trained" there will still be night where they have nightmares or are sick and need extra help getting back to sleep.
It is definitely exhausting. But keep trying and eventually something will work out. :)
Currently our youngest is 17 months and he usually sleeps through the night (unless sick or disturbed) and goes to sleep without crying.
We have a simple "bedtime" routine so that all our 3 little boys know it is time for bed. Everyone gets changed, brushes their teeth, we pray night prayers, everyone gets tucked into bed and usually we don't hear more than a peep from them until the morning (baby included).
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We do a mixed version of sleep training. Really it doesn't matter what method you use as long as your find something that works for you and your child. Every child is different but this is our general method:
Our babies usually co-sleep for the first 2-3 months when they want constant reminders of your presence and constant nursing.
Once they start rolling around 3-4 months then they graduate to a bassinet in our room for safety sake (they also tend to sleep a little better with a little distance at this point).
Around 6 months I find that baby and I tend to wake each other up a lot if we are in the same room. So, I then move baby to the nursery (which we also use as a guest room and if we have guests we just put baby temporarily back in our room). The babues would usually still nurses to sleep at this point.
Around 9-12 months we start "sleep training". Basically, I will give them a chance to fall asleep nursing, but if they don't fall asleep I will lay them in their crib and walk away for 15 minutes. If they are still crying after that time I get them and try again when they seem more tired/hungry. Gradually they get used to the system and start accepting it and falling asleep by themselves without crying though they are still awake when I put them down in their crib.
Once they are "sleep-trained" there will still be night where they have nightmares or are sick and need extra help getting back to sleep.
It is definitely exhausting. But keep trying and eventually something will work out. :)
Currently our youngest is 17 months and he usually sleeps through the night (unless sick or disturbed) and goes to sleep without crying.
We have a simple "bedtime" routine so that all our 3 little boys know it is time for bed. Everyone gets changed, brushes their teeth, we pray night prayers, everyone gets tucked into bed and usually we don't hear more than a peep from them until the morning (baby included).
Ditto. This sounds like how it worked for me. Thanks for the reminder. My youngest out of 5 is now 8.
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Eeek, I wonder about be co-sleeping because I know at least 2 saints who condemned it (St. John Vianney and St. Alphonsus) for safety and other reasons…
We’ve never done it because it seemed odd and scary to crush or hurt the baby in any way…plus we never got bed rails either ::)
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We do a mixed version of sleep training. Really it doesn't matter what method you use as long as your find something that works for you and your child. Every child is different but this is our general method:
Our babies usually co-sleep for the first 2-3 months when they want constant reminders of your presence and constant nursing.
Once they start rolling around 3-4 months then they graduate to a bassinet in our room for safety sake (they also tend to sleep a little better with a little distance at this point).
Around 6 months I find that baby and I tend to wake each other up a lot if we are in the same room. So, I then move baby to the nursery (which we also use as a guest room and if we have guests we just put baby temporarily back in our room). The babues would usually still nurses to sleep at this point.
Around 9-12 months we start "sleep training". Basically, I will give them a chance to fall asleep nursing, but if they don't fall asleep I will lay them in their crib and walk away for 15 minutes. If they are still crying after that time I get them and try again when they seem more tired/hungry. Gradually they get used to the system and start accepting it and falling asleep by themselves without crying though they are still awake when I put them down in their crib.
Once they are "sleep-trained" there will still be night where they have nightmares or are sick and need extra help getting back to sleep.
It is definitely exhausting. But keep trying and eventually something will work out. :)
Currently our youngest is 17 months and he usually sleeps through the night (unless sick or disturbed) and goes to sleep without crying.
We have a simple "bedtime" routine so that all our 3 little boys know it is time for bed. Everyone gets changed, brushes their teeth, we pray night prayers, everyone gets tucked into bed and usually we don't hear more than a peep from them until the morning (baby included).
Since we ditched the scheduled naps around the day, she’s been sleeping a lot better and for longer, last night she slept 8 hours straight and 10 something total. She only woke up once for a quick nursing around 9 or 12 something (don’t remember) and then we put her back in the crib.
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Eeek, I wonder about be co-sleeping because I know at least 2 saints who condemned it (St. John Vianney and St. Alphonsus) for safety and other reasons…
We’ve never done it because it seemed odd and scary to crush or hurt the baby in any way…plus we never got bed rails either ::)
What experience of parenting did St John Vianney and St Alphonsus have?
Then again, What do mean by cosleeping? Bed sharing? There's this.
(https://i.imgur.com/a8ncILg.png)
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What experience of parenting did St John Vianney and St Alphonsus have?
What a disrespectful thing to saint of these 2 great saints!
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I wonder about be co-sleeping because I know at least 2 saints who condemned it (St. John Vianney and St. Alphonsus) for safety and other reasons…
Citations needed.
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Citations needed.
It's in a book of the sermons of St John Vianney.
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It's in a book of the sermons of St John Vianney.
Oh yes I remember that sermon, "The Duties of the Mother" (in Sermons of the Curé of Ars: Patron Saint of Parish Priests (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_details&book_id=8682)). It's the same one where he tells parents not to let their babies run around in diapers because, even if no one is around, their angels still see.
It begins:YOU SHOULD never have your children sleeping with you from the time they are two years old. If you do, you are committing a sin. The Church did not make this law without reason. You are bound to observe it.
I'm not familiar with the law. Maybe it was in Gratian's Decretals?
(Very odd that parents would sleep with their 2 year or older children anyways…)
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Also, surprised no one has mentioned swaddling. Infants feel more secure that way, aren't disturbed by involuntary muscle contractions, and sleep better when swaddled.
"she brought forth her first born son and wrapped him up in swaddling clothes" —Lk. 2:7 (no word of Holy Scripture is superfluous and not for our instruction)
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Also, surprised no one has mentioned swaddling. Infants feel more secure that way, aren't disturbed by involuntary muscle contractions, and sleep better when swaddled.
"she brought forth her first born son and wrapped him up in swaddling clothes" —Lk. 2:7 (no word of Holy Scripture is superfluous and not for our instruction)
Swaddling is only for younger babies like maybe up to 6 months. There are sleep sacks (arms are out but legs covered) and you can get them heavy-weighted but they’re expensive. Babies can roll around over near 6 months so if their arms are bound together it can be unsafe.
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Oh yes I remember that sermon, "The Duties of the Mother" (in Sermons of the Curé of Ars: Patron Saint of Parish Priests (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_details&book_id=8682)).
It begins:I'm not familiar with the law. Maybe it was in Gratian's Decretals?
(Very odd that parents would sleep with their 2 year or older children anyways…)
Here is a fuller excerpt which gives more information.
THE DUTIES OF THE MOTHER
You should never have your children sleeping with you from the time they are two years old. If you do, you are committing a sin. The Church did not make this law without reason. You are bound to observe it.
But, you will say to me, sometimes it is very cold or we are very tired. All that, my dear brethren, is not a reason which could excuse you in the eyes of God. Besides, when you married, you knew quite well that you would be obliged to fulfil certain responsibilities and obligations which are attached to the married state.
Still, my dear brethren, there are fathers and mothers who are so little instructed in their religion or who are so indifferent to their duties that they will have sleeping with them children from fifteen to eighteen years of age, and often brothers and sisters together. Dear Lord! These poor fathers and mothers are in a terrible state of ignorance! But, you will say, we have no bed. You have no bed? But it would be better to let them sleep on a chair or in a neighbour's house. Dear Lord! The parents and children who damn themselves! But I will return to my subject and repeat to you that all the time that you allow your children to sleep with you after they have reached two years of age, you are offending God.
This thread is about a child of 14 months, so the sermon is not altogether relevant.
One has to take this in its proper context keeping in mind the different conditions under which we live, compared to the time of St John Vianney.
For example, Who, in our day and age would send our children to sleep in a neighbour’s house?
I have never come across a law which would forbid allowing a child to jump into bed for a cuddle with his/her own mother.
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Citations needed.
St Alphonsus (#6 in the article)
https://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A063_Liguori_3.htm
For St John Vianney, it was in one of his sermons, I’ll have to look it up.
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St Alphonsus (#6 in the article)
https://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A063_Liguori_3.htm
For St John Vianney, it was in one of his sermons, I’ll have to look it up.
The first 2 years of a child's life is different from the rest. The general idea of both St. John Vianney and St. Alphonso is more to not let the child get in the way of the marital act.
The child in question, if I remember correctly, is 11 months old.
So look at the post from 11 months on.
But I think I saw in another post that the child is sleeping better. How about mom is she able to get more things done?
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By the time the child is 2, the mom will probably be pregnant and have another baby and it's just not logical to have the toddler sleeping in the bed. It should get easier when there are more siblings who can share a room (same gender) and maybe the young kids can sleep better?
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I know husbands who refuse more children because their wives insist on co-sleeping with their kids until they are 4 or 5. The mothers act as if it is some grave emotional obligation to their children and the husband is an ogre for not going along. Often in these situations the husband will forfeit the marital bed to his wife and kids and he will sleep in a different room. That marks the beginning of the end of their marriage. Either that or he will stay in the bed and tolerate it and say no more children which again is a grave danger to the marriage.
Looked at in this light, I can see why St. Alphonsus is very staunch in his condemnation of it.
For a child to occasionally come to his parents bed for comfort after a bad dream or for security during a storm or other event, I see no harm if both parents are in agreement about it.
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Totally forgot he said 2 years old and up! I heard that sermon once last year.
My apologies for making it seem he referred to ages below that.
St Alphonsus gave no age but he probably means the same thing.
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mothers act as if it is some grave emotional obligation to their children and the husband is an ogre for not going along.
Feminism is disgusting. 🤮
This is borderline "single mothers by choice" mentality. 🤮
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I know husbands who refuse more children because their wives insist on co-sleeping with their kids until they are 4 or 5. The mothers act as if it is some grave emotional obligation to their children and the husband is an ogre for not going along. Often in these situations the husband will forfeit the marital bed to his wife and kids and he will sleep in a different room. That marks the beginning of the end of their marriage. Either that or he will stay in the bed and tolerate it and say no more children which again is a grave danger to the marriage.
That sounds nuts, I hadn’t heard that before.
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That sounds nuts, I hadn’t heard that before.
It’s a big thing in the “natural” or attachment parenting community.
My cousin did this to her husband. It was such a sad ordeal. They finalized their divorce 18 months ago.
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In event of There’s always exceptions, like when camping in a tent or in several instances the entire family slot on mattresses and blankets on the floor surrounding the woodstove. This was an an Amish family of 17 plus myself and a hired hand. The temperature fell that night to -56 F. That is dangerously cold. Everyone wore full clothing including coats, hats, etc. Dad and the older boys took turns sitting up tending the stove and making sure nobody or cloth got on fire. Obviously, no marital acts were taking place!
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We were going to visit an old Ukrainian farm historical site yesterday but it was too hot. The immigrants (1900s) had 12 kids and it was a tiny house! But, they built separate cabins (bunkhouses) for the boys and girls that were of course detached from the original house. This was also in a much colder climate.
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It’s a big thing in the “natural” or attachment parenting community.
Another example of the destruction ongoing from Jean Jacques Rousseau's gnostic legacy, and all the woo-woo cult parroting of its false teachings ever since.
Whenever you hear non-believers say that something is "natural" about the human person, run away as fast as you can.
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Whenever you hear non-believers say that something is "natural" about the human person, run away as fast as you can.
Anything that a person is born with is "natural" (natio = birth).
Rousseau went wrong by denying Original Sin and thinking there is no tendency to sin in our post-Eden wounded human nature.