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Author Topic: Sitting out the election?  (Read 7236 times)

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Offline Nishant Xavier

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Re: Sitting out the election?
« Reply #135 on: July 13, 2020, 09:19:32 AM »
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  • As mentioned in reply #36, "Pope Pius XII said, "In the present circuмstances it is strictly obligatory for whoever has the right, man or woman, to take part in the elections. He who abstains, particularly through indolence or cowardice, commits thereby a grave sin, a mortal offense." That is very clear. Voting is a serious responsibility which it is a mortal sin to omit doing without at least a sufficiently serious reason.

    And if you agree it is permissible to vote for Trump, that's a start. As for why it is not only permissible but even obligatory, it is the special circuмstance that makes (1) RvW being overturned very likely with one more SC Justice (2) One more SCJ likely next term."

    Quote from: Tradman
    God's honor is more important than all human life put together
    This is an admirable and commendable principle, but I believe your application of it in practice is mistaken here. God's honor is what requires Catholics to try to fix abortion in 2020 and sodomy etc perhaps in 2024. It cannot be done all at once, therefore it must not be done at all, is a non sequitur and a false dichotomy. Please review how double effect applies. Double effect would mean prioritizing ending abortion currently (and frankly, 400 judges in all, and 4 Supreme Court Justices, may very well end legal sodomy also, and re-institute what was followed under the Defense of Marriage Act) even if it is impossible at this time to end legal recognition of "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ" relationships. One effect is intended; the other is not; the other is foreseen, but not intended; the one outweighs the other in grave circuмstances. Those are the norms for double effect to apply and the present situation seems to be a classic case of it. As mentioned, the Justices may be even more conservative than you are in time; we don't know, we'll have to see. What we do know is that with 400 Trump Judges and 4 Trump Justices, legal abortion will end and America's judicial future will be secure for a whole new generation (they are very young, conservative judges, which means they have lifetime appointments of like 30 to 40 years; Trump is fighting hard and fighting smart for the conservative cause; he has some bad advisors, maybe, but many good ones as well). Those are the special circuмstances - 400+4 Justices - imo that make voting for Trump not only morally permissible but morally obligatory. What cannot be changed about sodomy currently is not the issue; it can be changed later when opportunity arises. 

    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #136 on: July 13, 2020, 11:11:14 AM »
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  • I refer you to post #90 again where the Church teaches that there are conditions that may relieve a Catholic from the obligation to vote (the section conveniently left out by "catholicapologetics").
    It's irrelevant to my point.  


    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #137 on: July 13, 2020, 12:00:10 PM »
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  • This is a good warning from a Cuban immigrant who saw the communists take over Cuba, trying to warn Americans to not let the communists take over here.  Interestingly, this man's father fled Spain to flee the communists and took his family to Cuba, only to have to flee again to the U.S.  Its an amazing story, and a wake up call to those who are considering letting communism become established here.  


    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #138 on: July 14, 2020, 12:37:11 PM »
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  • This is grave slander against Pope Leo XIII, and the false accusation creates grave scandal.  Prove it or retract your statement.


    AT BEST you can make the case that it's permitted based on double effect in certain concrete cases, but one is never required to do so.

    https://sspx.ca/en/the-catholic-dilemma-in-voting
    XavierSem, you declared that Catholics have a moral obligation to vote for Trump, but you're disagreeing with the SSPX here, whom you slavishly support.  Please explain.
    You will find it in Canon Law #70 on the Moral Obligation of voting. Also very important checkout Pope Pius XI admonition of Catholics for  Hitler getting into power.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #139 on: July 14, 2020, 03:38:14 PM »
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  • Also very important checkout Pope Pius XI admonition of Catholics for  Hitler getting into power.

    Link please, for our edification, to this admonition of those wretched Catholics guilty of putting an end to the Weimar Republic.


    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #140 on: July 14, 2020, 05:50:49 PM »
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  • same Canon Law Study 1952 #70 I want to make it clear when Pope Leo spoke of voting for a Socialist he was speaking of Italy. Pope Pius XII in his "Allocution to the International Union Leagues of Catholic Women", September 12, 1947:  "Consequently heavy is the responsibility of anyone, man or woman, who has the right to voting, especially when religious interests are at stake. As they well know, Abstention in such case would of itself be a grave and deadly sin of omission.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #141 on: July 29, 2020, 12:33:28 PM »
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  • President Trump's Pro-Life Accomplishments on Conservapedia
    1. Under the Trump administration, the unborn have the ultimate advocate. From appointing pro-life judges, to stopping the flow of taxpayer-funds to abortion providers, and defending the unborn abroad -- the case is clear for a second term for President Trump.
    2. Top line: President Trump is the most pro-life President in history.
     
    President Trump became the first President in history to speak at the annual March for Life.
     Vice President Pence has a long history of being a voice for the voiceless in standing up for the most innocent among us.
    3. Donald Trump and Mike Pence campaigned on the promise to defend life from its earliest stage and to defund Planned Parenthood. President Trump and Vice President Pence have kept that promise.
    4. April 2017: In the first year of the Trump-Pence administration, President Trump signed a bill that allowed states to defund Planned Parenthood of Title X (family planning) funding, reversing an Obama attempt to force states to fund abortion providers.
    5. January 2018: Reversed an Obama Administration policy that blocked states from deciding if Planned Parenthood should be stripped of Medicaid funding.
    6. February 2019: The Protect Life Rule was finalized, cutting Planned Parenthood’s Federal funding by $60 million.
    7. As a result of the President’s policies, Planned Parenthood announced it is withdrawing from the Title X program
     
    This clears the way for health care centers that respect the right to life to receive more federal funding
    8. President Trump and Vice President Pence have spent nearly three years actively working to get life-protecting legislation passed.
    9. The Trump-Pence administration reinstated the Mexico City Policy that ends Federal funding of overseas abortions.
     
    The Protecting Life in Global Health Assistance program was created to ensure that hard earned tax dollars are not funding foreign abortions across all global health spending – not just family planning dollars.
     This protects over $8.8 BILLION in overseas aid from being used for abortions.
    10. President Trump has appointed Federal judges that uphold the pro-life view that all life is sacred from the moment of conception.
     
    This includes two pro-life Supreme Court Justices.
    11. President Trump has written Congress on numerous occasions, encouraging and urging them to vote to protect innocent human life.
     
    No-Taxpayer Funding for Abortion and Abortion Insurance Full Disclosure Act of 2019.
     Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act.
     Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act
    12. The Trump-Pence administration has issued new guidance ensuring hospitals provide medical care to infants who survive abortions.
    13. The current administration has proposed numerous resolutions to fight the Obama era pro-abortion policies.
     
    Require Obamacare insurers to issue separate invoices for abortion coverage.
     Require Obamacare insurers to provide clients an identical plan in the same geographic area that does not provide coverage of abortion.
     Reverse the Obama policy that made recipients of certain Federal funding provide abortions.
    14. President Trump has taken the pro-life movement to the world stage: the administration opposes the efforts of the United Nations to make abortion an international human right.
    15. The Trump-Pence administration has taken steps to protect pro-life organizations from having to provide abortion referrals or cover abortion in their health insurance plans.
    16. The Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has dramatically shifted in placing value on the unborn.
     
    Funding for fetal tissue research – which uses aborted human body parts - has been cut.
     HHS’ newly created Conscience and Religious Freedom Division fights for doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals who do not wish to have any part in abortions.
     The Trump-Pence administration is protecting all Americans’ First Amendment rights.
    17. President Trump and Vice President Pence’s stance on life stands in stark contrast with all of the Democrat candidates.
     
    Every single Democrat running for President wholeheartedly endorse abortion until birth and abortion without restriction.
     Democrat candidates’ polices would provide abortion procedures for free at the expense of the hardworking American tax dollars.
    18.President Trump’s most pro-life quotes:
     
    “I will veto any legislation that weakens current pro-life Federal policies and laws, or that encourages the destruction of innocent human life at any stage.”
     “My administration has repeatedly demonstrated its respect for human life and conscience at all stages… Today, we recommit ourselves to protecting innocent life every day and at every stage.”
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #142 on: July 30, 2020, 03:06:05 PM »
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  • Joe Biden promises to undo Trump-era pro-life policies if elected president
    In his 'Agenda for Women,' Biden promised to restore domestic and overseas funding to the abortion industry.
    Wed Jul 29, 2020 - 12:18 pm EST
     
     
    Mark Makela / Getty Images
    By Martin Bürger
     Follow Martin

    WASHINGTON, D.C., July 29, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) — In his Agenda for Women released Monday, Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden promised to restore domestic and overseas funding to the abortion industry. The Trump administration has made an effort not to finance abortions with federal money.
    Biden dedicated one section of his Agenda for Women to “Reproductive Health,” which is generally a reference to abortion. The former vice president under President Barack Obama said he “will work to codify Roe v. Wade, and his Justice Department will do everything in its power to stop the rash of state laws that so blatantly violate Roe v. Wade.”
    Roe v. Wade is the 1973 Supreme Court ruling essentially legalizing abortion across the country under the guise of a woman’s right to privacy. Many states passed legislation trying to limit the widespread killing of unborn babies. One piece of legislation is so-called heartbeat bills, which prohibit abortions as soon as the unborn baby’s heartbeat can be detected after roughly six weeks of pregnancy.
    Joe Biden said he wanted to repeal the Hyde Amendment by reissuing “guidance specifying that states cannot refuse Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood and other providers and reverse the Trump Administration’s rule preventing these organizations from obtaining Title X funds.”
    Planned Parenthood provides more than 345,000 abortions annually, according to its most recent report. Additionally, the organization handed out more than 593,000 emergency contraception kits, commonly known as the morning-after pill, which can also cause abortions in many cases.
    Biden’s plan would, accordingly, enable women to abort their babies using taxpayer money.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #143 on: July 31, 2020, 06:12:05 AM »
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  • Joe Biden promises to undo Trump-era pro-life policies if elected president
    In his 'Agenda for Women,' Biden promised to restore domestic and overseas funding to the abortion industry......
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #144 on: August 25, 2020, 01:26:34 PM »
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  • The political left in the United States does not have, deep down, a political philosophy in the strict sense of the term. More accurately, it is an ideology whose motto is derived from Thrasymachus (mentioned above): the aim of politics is to attain and maintain power. The riots and civic unrest experienced since the end of May are coordinated attempts to cause social instability and political decline. And because the actions of the rioters are being intentionally portrayed within the category of identity politics, then it is undeniable that their framework is, and will be, that of the contemporary Democratic party. It does not seem much of a stretch to equate “being woke” with “being a Democrat.” This admission is no longer something requiring proof, but is overwhelmingly self-evident.

    As this alignment between rioters and the political left has solidified, we can also affirm the unconventional success of President Trump. For whatever one thinks of his various strategies, it seems incontestable now that since taking office, the President has had a singular focus in getting those on the political left to reveal their cards. I agree with the assessment of the political philosopher Joshua Mitchell, who contends that Trump’s use of Twitter is like a “sixth sense.” The President’s tweets act as a kind of sonar sent out into the cosmos. He is waiting for a kind of reverberation, a bleep on the radar of public discussion wherein he can gauge some real sense of various dialectical narratives surrounding a said issue.

    Trump’s tweets may be vulgar, crass, and un-presidential. But a limited defense of Trump does not rest upon his virtue, or even lack thereof. The fundamental concern within the tradition of classical political philosophy is not whether everyone can be a philosopher, even a sitting president. Instead, the issue is whether the very conditions of philosophy would still be possible. For Strauss, this was the political status of philosophy. Will the philosopher, or those who seek those truths that transcend the current political orthodoxy of mere opinions, be allowed to live in the liberal democratic regime? To put this more poignantly: would a President Trump bring a Socrates, or Christ, before him and threaten them with death if they did not give unfailing allegiance? Is hemlock or the Cross really possible in an America where Trump is President?

    The answer to these latter questions would seem to be a resounding “No.” Of course, Trump is neither a philosopher, nor a rhetorician. The ad nauseam attacks that he is not are beside the point. What we should seek, at one level, are the social and political conditions whereby truth is still allowed to be voiced and heard. The tension before us as democratic citizens is whether nuance in thought is permissible. The dialectical squabbles over COVID-19, especially the ever increasing attempts to silence and snuff out dissenters, is providing disturbing answers.

    Will a second term for President Trump ensure a victory for philosophy against tyranny? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps there is no better public visual of this classical tension incarnated in our time than in the recent congressional hearing with Attorney General Bill Barr. Like the rioters we see on the news, Barr’s interlocutors at the hearing were not interested in that thing called speech. The goal was much more sinister, and direct. They simply sought to smash, not his arguments, but his capacity to speak.

    My hope would be that a continued Trump presidency, if it might be anything, can continue to support those conditions where truth can be uttered and heard. The alternative will not be a world of peace and rationality, of open dialogue and speech ordered towards grasping the truth. Instead, we will witness those political and social conditions wherein we come to worship in the only religion left, namely, the despotism of our own opinions.

    https://kop61.wordpress.com/2020/08/25/a-limited-case-for-trump-hes-far-from-perfect-but-trump-carves-out-a-space-for-free-thought-as-the-rest-of-the-world-grows-increasingly-hostile-to-it/
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #145 on: August 26, 2020, 06:57:45 AM »
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  • Maybe if the Catholic Church wasn’t so filled with demonic pedophiles, we would have a truly Catholic Presidential candidate instead of pseudo Catholic Biden.  The selection of Biden as a presidential candidate shows how much power Catholics have in an election. kamala was selected for Indian vote.  Many powerful wealthy Indians in USA.  

    I’m sorry we have to vote Trump. If we don’t things will get worse.  
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #146 on: August 26, 2020, 03:35:56 PM »
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  • We're going to get somebody for the presidency in November 2020 no matter what happens, that's a given. 
    If you listen to the demoncrats, it is not a given. They are currently engaging in predictive programming and "war games" about what they will do when they "win" the (ballot harvesting) election. Trump, they say, will have to be escorted out of the White House by the military.
    In 3rd world counties this is called a military coup, but the dems are actually planning for this (their "insurance policy" in case they can't get enough dead people to vote.)
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #148 on: October 04, 2020, 04:16:56 PM »
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  • Link please, for our edification, to this admonition of those wretched Catholics guilty of putting an end to the Weimar Republic.
    Weimar was beyond degenerate, but unlike the nαzι state make no significant attach on Catholic education. The efforts of Bp von Galen and others restrained the takeover of Catholic education, but it happened.
    Presumably Mit Berrender Sorge (German) is being referenced.

    Now of course Catholic education was nearly destroyed thanks to V2. No one would give a fig if a Pres Biden was hostile to them, not that he would attack a reliable source of soc jus indoctrination.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #149 on: October 04, 2020, 10:42:43 PM »
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  • Trump must be re-elected, unless we want a fast-track to a demonic hell on earth.

    I dare you to google "the 16 year plan" to hear what the Deep State had planned for us all. They still have the desire and the will; they have just been set back by a few years.
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