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Author Topic: Sitting out the election?  (Read 4673 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Sitting out the election?
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2020, 05:48:12 PM »
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  • More proof that Trump is not an insider. He’s officially severed ties with the WHO.

    https://ijr.org/trump-formally-take-us-out-of-who/
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #121 on: July 07, 2020, 05:56:08 PM »
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  • President Donald Trump at the 2020 March for Life. His speech marked the first time a president has attended the March for Life and addressed it in person.

    We are here for a very simple reason: to defend the right of every child, born and unborn, to fulfill their God-given potential.

    All of us here understand an eternal truth: Every child is a precious and sacred gift from God. [applause] Together, we must protect, cherish, and defend the dignity and the sanctity of every human life.

    When we see the image of a baby in the womb, we glimpse the majesty of God’s creation. [applause] When we hold a newborn in our arms, we know the endless love that each child brings to a family. When we watch a child grow, we see the splendor that radiates from each human soul. One life changes the world – from my family, and I can tell you, I send love, and I send great, great love – and from the first day in office, I have taken historic action to support America’s families and to protect the unborn.

    And during my first week in office, I reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy and we issued a landmark pro-life rule to govern the use of Title X taxpayer funding. I notified Congress that I would veto any legislation that weakens pro-life policy or that encourages the destruction of human life.

    At the United Nations, I made clear that global bureaucrats have no business attacking the sovereignty of nations that protect innocent life. Unborn children have never had a stronger defender in the White House.

    We have taken decisive action to protect the religious liberty – so important – religious liberty has been under attack all over the world and frankly, very strongly attacked in our nation. You see it better than anyone. But we are stopping it. And we’re taking care of doctors, nurses, teachers, and groups like the Little Sisters of the Poor.

    We are preserving faith-based adoption and to uphold our founding docuмents, we have confirmed 187 federal judges, who apply the Constitution as written, including two phenomenal supreme court justices – Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh.

    We are protecting pro-life students’ rights to free speech on college campuses. And if universities want federal taxpayer dollars, then they must uphold your First Amendment right to speak your mind. And if they don’t, they pay a very big financial penalty, which they will not be willing to pay.

    Sadly, the far left is working to erase our God-given rights, shut down faith-based charities, ban religious leaders from the public square, and silence Americans who believe in the sanctity of life. They are coming after me because I am fighting for you and we are fighting for those who have no voice.

    Together, we are the voice for the voiceless. When it comes to abortion – and you know this, you’ve seen what’s happened – Democrats have embraced the most radical and extreme positions taken and seen in this country for years and decades, and you can even say, for centuries.

    Nearly every top Democrat in congress now supports taxpayer-funded abortion all the way up until the moment of birth. Last year, lawmakers in New York cheered with delight upon the passage of legislation that would allow a baby to be ripped from the mother’s womb right up until delivery.

    Then, we had the case of the Democrat governor in the state of Virginia, the commonwealth of Virginia. And we love the commonwealth of Virginia, but what is going on in Virginia? What is going on? The governor stated that he would execute a baby after birth. You remember that.

    Senate Democrats even blocked legislation that would give medical care to babies who survive attempted abortions. And that’s why I’ve called on Congress – two of our great senators here, so many of our congressmen here – I called upon them to defend the dignity of life and to pass legislation prohibiting late-term abortion of children who can feel pain in their mother’s womb. [applause]

    We cannot know what our citizens yet unborn will achieve. The dreams they will imagine. The masterpieces they will create. The discoveries they will make. But we know this: every life brings love into this world. Every child brings joy to a family. Every person is worth protecting.

    And above all, we know that every human soul is divine and every human life, born and unborn, is made in the holy image of Almighty God.


    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline claudel

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #122 on: July 07, 2020, 06:14:46 PM »
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  • No clue what you are babbling about. DH is short for Dear Husband. Duh.

    So you have never heard of baseball, am I right, and you go grandly snippy about a harmless gag that isn't remotely at your expense or even that of your DH—however the abbreviation is understood and whichever side of the plate he bats from?

    Noted with interest.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #123 on: July 07, 2020, 07:01:56 PM »
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  • The  "life of the mother" exception, on the other hand, is an unfortunate phrase that can mean the same thing as Catholic double-effect, so it's not necessarily even "intrinsically evil".  It can be permissible to perform a procedure intending to preserve the life of a mother even if the death of the baby in the womb is a likely consequence, so long as the death of the baby is not the intended goal or means.

    There is no "life of the mother" argument at all in the discussion about abortion, and double effect.

    Here are so quotes from reliable sources. Yes even the first.

    Quote
    “Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life of the mother.”
    —Alan Guttmacher, former Planned Parenthood president
    Quote
    “There are no conceivable clinical situations today where abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother. In fact, if her health is threatened and an abortion is performed, the abortion increases risks the mother will incur regarding her health.”
    —Dr. Bernard Nathanson, American Bioethics Advisory Commission
    There is only one purpose for abortion—ending the life of the child. The “life of the mother” situation for abortion is simply bogus.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #124 on: July 07, 2020, 07:19:10 PM »
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  • No matter what they think, being "pro-life" except in cases of rape or incest does not make you pro-life. And never will. It's being pro-abortion with a veneer of fake charity.

    To quote someone famous many years ago:

    Quote
    A child conceived through incest or rape is innocent and deserves the right to be born.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #125 on: July 07, 2020, 07:39:54 PM »
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  • There is only one purpose for abortion—ending the life of the child. The “life of the mother” situation for abortion is simply bogus.
    OK. Note that I said a "procedure intending to preserve the life of the mother... so long as the death of the baby is not the intended goal or means".




    Offline lapetitefleur

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #126 on: July 09, 2020, 10:37:24 PM »
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  • This is irrelevant because America isn’t a catholic country, thus we/she can never be pro-Catholic and anti-evil in the way we want.  So, you’ve setup a utopian scenario that will never be fulfilled.  An unreachable goal.  Hence your perfect (catholic ideals in a non-catholic country) is the enemy of the good (support of the natural law, as best as can be, as well as 100s of other practical goods).
    .
    Even if one argues that condoning of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is evil akin to funding the abortion industry (which it’s not), the practical reasons to vote for Trump are innumerable.  If you get “lost in the weeds” of Catholic idealism, and don’t think practical reasons matter, you are acting like a stoic or a Pelagian, who elevates the spiritual to an extreme degree and falsely says the temporal doesn’t matter.  
    .
    If you think the temporal doesn’t affect the Church, or society or your family or your salvation, you’re dead wrong.  If a commie is elected and shuts down churches, is God pleased?  Does it make your salvation easier or harder?  History shows that highly stressful and catastrophic events can cause many people to lose their Faith.  Does this not affect all areas of the Church as well?  Of course.  Vote anti-communist in principle.  If that means voting for Trump, so be it.  Ideals have to be thrown out the window in the middle of a war, replaced by prudence and practicality.  And we’re smack dab in the middle of a war for our country and western civilization.
    Thank you and God bless those of you speaking catholic common sense on this thread. I honestly cannot believe that any catholic can justify not voting this year...it blows my mind. We all know Trump is far from ideal but I dont think any of you sweet summer children have a clue what is in store for this country if Biden wins.....

    Offline madwoman

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #127 on: July 10, 2020, 12:38:25 PM »
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  • We're going to get somebody for the presidency in November 2020 no matter what happens, that's a given.  Why would you not try to make things somewhat better by voting for the lesser of the two evils.  It's not a perfect world, and we will never get anybody who is not flawed in some way, some much worse than others, but we still have a duty, in my opinion to continue to try.   


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #128 on: July 10, 2020, 01:40:38 PM »
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  • Thank you and God bless those of you speaking catholic common sense on this thread. I honestly cannot believe that any catholic can justify not voting this year...it blows my mind. We all know Trump is far from ideal but I dont think any of you sweet summer children have a clue what is in store for this country if Biden wins.....
    I can't understand how a traditional Catholic could down vote what you said.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #129 on: July 10, 2020, 03:23:21 PM »
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  • I can't understand how a traditional Catholic could down vote what you said.

    Well, I think it was due to the condescending and derogatory tone towards those who do do not feel they can vote for Trump in good conscience.  There are some very serious considerations against voting for Trump, and she dismisses them with condescension.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #130 on: July 10, 2020, 06:20:26 PM »
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  • Well, I think it was due to the condescending and derogatory tone towards those who do do not feel they can vote for Trump in good conscience.  There are some very serious considerations against voting for Trump, and she dismisses them with condescension.
    I am a traditional Catholic who cannot vote for Trump in good conscience.  Not for some holier than thou attitude about his past, nor for some small current defect.  Trump's position on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is at odds with the natural law and is one of the most serious insults to God. Sure, I want abortion to be eradicated.  I want to live in a better world. But not at the expense of swapping evils to get it. No, I don't have some vain hope of living in a perfect world. It's a matter of principle to me. The outcome of how I vote is relatively incidental, because I have to die and face God no matter who wins. Voting for a candidate openly tolerant of the sin that cries out to God for vengeance just to save even one human life doesn't make sense, because God's honor is more important than all human life put together.    


    Offline claudel

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #131 on: July 11, 2020, 05:59:42 PM »
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  • … it was due to the condescending and derogatory tone towards those who do do not feel they can vote for Trump in good conscience. There are some very serious considerations against voting for Trump, and she dismisses them with condescension.

    That the underscored sentence above has thus far prompted four down-votes demonstrates the strength of the curious belief that a person can make an unpleasant reality disappear by simply saying "I don't like you for saying that" to a bringer of bad news, especially when the bad news is also plainly true. In the interest of affirming the importance of acknowledging objective reality, I have voted the comment up.

    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #132 on: July 11, 2020, 10:33:00 PM »
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  • So on a ballot one must ignore the obvious difference between the degree of evil positions of the candidates and hold them all as equivalent?   If someone is running that is identical in all respects to Joseph Stalin, and the other candidate is identical to John Kennedy, also a personally flawed man, who held views that can be condemned by Catholics, it's better to sit it out and let Stalin win, knowing full well what that will mean?   






    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #133 on: July 12, 2020, 02:24:45 AM »
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  • Thank you and God bless those of you speaking catholic common sense on this thread. I honestly cannot believe that any catholic can justify not voting this year...it blows my mind. We all know Trump is far from ideal but I dont think any of you sweet summer children have a clue what is in store for this country if Biden wins.....

    To be an arrogant, imperious virago about this subject is one thing, but to quote from trash like A Game of Thrones while doing so is an especially unkind cut.

    At least move a few notches up the literary allusions ladder and hit us with some Barbara Cartland gems next time. 

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Sitting out the election?
    « Reply #134 on: July 13, 2020, 07:41:19 AM »
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  • So on a ballot one must ignore the obvious difference between the degree of evil positions of the candidates and hold them all as equivalent?   If someone is running that is identical in all respects to Joseph Stalin, and the other candidate is identical to John Kennedy, also a personally flawed man, who held views that can be condemned by Catholics, it's better to sit it out and let Stalin win, knowing full well what that will mean?  
    I refer you to post #90 again where the Church teaches that there are conditions that may relieve a Catholic from the obligation to vote (the section conveniently left out by "catholicapologetics").
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)