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Offline Matthew

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Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
« on: October 23, 2017, 04:50:24 AM »
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  • The subject has been brought up before on CathInfo over the years -- some single Trad guys have expressed that they want a woman who is a "10" on a 1 to 10 scale, the theory being that having a supermodel wife will help them resist all the less-attractive women they find around them at work, etc.

    First of all, that doesn't work. Biologically, ALL men are compatible with ALL women. And human nature tends to curiosity, getting sick of what you have, wondering what's on the other side of the fence, the "new and exciting", etc. So temptations will always be there. No matter how beautiful your wife is, there are still about 4.5 billion women you can't think about in a sexual way, much less touch. Ergo, you need to develop virtue.

    But my point today is:

    Some might say, "but there's no harm in wanting/getting a stunningly beautiful wife, as long as she's also a good Catholic, etc..."
    But I would disagree. All the talk on forums like this would tend to propagate the idea that, "that is what guys want. If you want to be married, you have to..."
    ... be jealous of the Kardashians and all the other (objectively) ugly, plastic Hollywood sex toys that prance about the silver screen.

    If even one single Trad woman gets thrown off course by thinking that guys want THAT, rather than a docile spouse, one who has self-control, a good Catholic, hard working, with a good prayer life and spirit of mortification, etc. (you know, the kind of women that Scripture has praise for) then that would be a tragedy.

    Because it's a fact that women are also competitive in their own way -- with other women. They incline towards jealousy (just as men incline towards anger, pride, etc.) and they crave and need attention. If they perceive that becoming Kim Kardashian is the way to rise above their competition and get the man of their dreams, they will go that route, at least as much as a Catholic living outside Hollywood can do.

    In short, if you single men want to find good wives, then please create demand for good wives, and not more hollywood, superficial "beauties" or "hot" women.

    As a married man well into the task of raising a natural-sized family, I'm here to tell you that there are MANY OTHER factors you should consider when choosing your spouse, apart from how "hot" she is. 

    Of course, it all depends on what you're after. If you're after a lifestyle similar to that of Kanye West, then you should ignore my advice. But if you're looking to raise a Traditional Catholic family, have all the children God sends you, homeschool them so they don't end up losing the Faith, etc. then you'll want a woman who won't spend you broke (maybe even one who's good with money), one with self-discipline, one who is organized, smart, etc.
    Those are the traits we should highly value, both in person and online, and create a huge perceived demand. 

    I saw a close up of the face of one of those "supposed to be beautiful" famous people the other day -- and I actually thought, "Yuck". They inject liquid silicone into their lips and faces, wear TONS of makeup, sometimes their eyebrows are completely drawn on -- again, "YUCK!".
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 05:09:51 AM »
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  • I was(?) married to one model, and another that could have been. 

    "Pretty is, as pretty does" ... while ugly does you in. 

    I don't care how attractive anyone finds a person initially, an ugly heart makes for dread; a wicked woman can sour a man on everything, and everyone God included.

    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 05:10:23 AM »
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  • As an aside, the adjective "sexy" is quite ridiculous if you think about it.

    It basically means "sex could break out at any time" like a flash-mob. Or, "ready to have sex at a moment's notice -- you never know when it will happen."

    We don't have a handy adjective for "looks like he/she's about to eat food" but we have a word for the same thing regarding sex.
    Silly rabbit, anyone hungry in need of nourishment would happily eat food. Given a group of 100 people 5 hours since their last meal, every one of them should be equally "ready to eat food".

    Keeping in mind that sex is a small, small fraction of one's life -- and especially if your beliefs include monogamy and forbid fornication -- it's really stupid to describe people in those terms.

    It also presumes a certain "universality" rather than "exclusivity", if you think about it. Who cares how "sexy" a woman is, who is off limits to all but one man? Again, it implies that "sex could break out at any time, with any one, if you get too close".

    It's not an adjective I'd want applied to my wife, my sister, my mother, or myself.

    In fact, even the Jews in Hollywood know this. It's not a compliment. Most people are offended by it. Say two men were talking, and one said to the other, "Oh, look at her. She's sexy and hot." and the other guy retorts, "She's my sister!" that's the punchline of countless gags or jokes in movies. Usually it leads to a fight.
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    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 05:21:48 AM »
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  • Actually, I believe it is more harmful for one's soul to have a beautiful wife than to have an ugly one, since there are many more temptations.
    The baptism of desire and the baptism of blood are dogmas of faith and truths of natural reason: see the article of the New Advent Encyclopedia on baptism, and Catholic Essentials. Those who deny the baptism of desire, the baptism of blood,

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 07:59:10 AM »
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  • Men should keep in mind as well that there are exceedingly few "10's" on the Sensuality Scale who are still "10's" without the 10 pounds of makeup they cover their bodies with every morning.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 08:37:58 AM »
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  • If even one single Trad woman gets thrown off course by thinking that guys want THAT, rather than a docile spouse, one who has self-control, a good Catholic, hard working, with a good prayer life and spirit of mortification, etc. (you know, the kind of women that Scripture has praise for) then that would be a tragedy.

    Well, I can say that I've been blessed with a woman who has both the interior and the outward beauty.  But the interesting thing is that, over time, the two blend together.  Why is it that all those "beautiful people" in Hollywood get divorced 50 times each?  Because there's nothing more hideous than a outwardly good-looking person who's ugly on the inside.  Conversely, a person who's beautiful on the inside can become attractive even on the outside to someone who sees the inner beauty.  When you really get to know someone more deeply, these two things blend together, but the inner beauty is more important.  As I said, a person who's beautiful on the inside can be seen as beautiful on the outside too, but it doesn't work in the other direction, where outward beauty can turn interior ugliness beautiful.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 08:55:57 AM »
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  • The subject has been brought up before on CathInfo over the years -- some single Trad guys have expressed that they want a woman who is a "10" on a 1 to 10 scale, the theory being that having a supermodel wife will help them resist all the less-attractive women they find around them at work, etc.

    First of all, that doesn't work. 

    Oh, I don't know.  It kindof works for me.  I find my wife to be so beautiful (inside and out) that all other women pale in comparison and don't interest me in the least bit.  Of course, this wouldn't work if she were simply beautiful on the outside but ugly on the inside.  As I wrote in my previous post, the interior state always trumps the exterior over time.  But, indeed, if you find someone who's a "10" ONLY on the outside, no it absolutely will not work over time ... IF YOU DO NOT FIND HER BEAUTIFUL ON THE INSIDE ALSO.  The appeal of those looks fade VERY QUICKLY once the interior ugliness makes itself apparent.

    So I'm kindof disagreeing with you and kindof not.  If by "10" we're talking about purely exterior physical beauty, then that absolutely cannot reduce temptation.  So I agree.  But a beautiful woman (with beauty defined much more broadly than mere physical attributes) can most certainly reduce temptation for men, because the men can be completely happy and satisfied with their wife and don't have any interest in other women vis-a-vis some perceived unfulfilled needs.  They don't see anything out there that their wife doesn't give them.

    What's at issue is the single guys who are looking for merely physical beauty.

    So, basically, I'm redefining what SHOULD constitute a "10" in the minds of men.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 09:09:08 AM »
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  • Some might say, "but there's no harm in wanting/getting a stunningly beautiful wife, as long as she's also a good Catholic, etc..."
    But I would disagree. All the talk on forums like this would tend to propagate the idea that, "that is what guys want. If you want to be married, you have to..."
    ... be jealous of the Kardashians and all the other (objectively) ugly, plastic Hollywood sex toys that prance about the silver screen.

    If even one single Trad woman gets thrown off course by thinking that guys want THAT, rather than a docile spouse, one who has self-control, a good Catholic, hard working, with a good prayer life and spirit of mortification, etc. (you know, the kind of women that Scripture has praise for) then that would be a tragedy.

    Because it's a fact that women are also competitive in their own way -- with other women. They incline towards jealousy (just as men incline towards anger, pride, etc.) and they crave and need attention. If they perceive that becoming Kim Kardashian is the way to rise above their competition and get the man of their dreams, they will go that route, at least as much as a Catholic living outside Hollywood can do.

    This is true.  Women absolutely WILL adapt (or at least try) to what they believe men want.  So when men keep giving off signals that they're going after outward beauty and sexual appeal first, then, guess what, women will emphasize their outward appearance and sexual appeal.  So there's a lot of harm done to women here by men who behave this way and talk this way.  Conversely, then these women will make themselves more occasions of sin to men ... including the bozos who started this cycle in the first place by seeking exactly this and then have the audacity to complain about women who tempt them this way.  So they're only reaping what they themselves sew.  Of course, there are other men caught in the crossfire as well.  So these men not only harm women, but they harm other men indirectly by creating a culture in which women want to show off and emphasize their outward assets.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 09:29:06 AM »
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  • First of all, that doesn't work. Biologically, ALL men are compatible with ALL women. And human nature tends to curiosity, getting sick of what you have, wondering what's on the other side of the fence, the "new and exciting", etc. So temptations will always be there. No matter how beautiful your wife is, there are still about 4.5 billion women you can't think about in a sexual way, much less touch. Ergo, you need to develop virtue.

    I think a lot about what St. Paul writes repeatedly, that for those who love God there is no law.  What this means is that if you love God and want God above all things, then there's no room in your heart to love or want anything other than God ... so choosing things other than God (aka sin) doesn't even register as an option.  There's no "I MUST resist this other option."  I liken this to my love for my wife.  I love her so much that there's no room in my heart for anyone else, so it doesn't really require any practice of "virtue" on my part not to care about other women.  There's no, "I MUST NOT look at this woman and MUST turn away my eyes." as if I have to do this by force.  If I see other women, my natural inclination is "blah, who cares?, not my wife, and therefore not interesting."


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 10:25:21 AM »
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  • Fathers need to teach their daughters that self esteem and one's own beauty does not come from men's attraction to them, it comes from within. Once a woman learns to gage their beauty and self esteem from men's reactions to them, they are hooked for life, a life of chasing after men's reactions. Meanwhile, men will go after a light socket if it solves their problem.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 10:49:37 AM »
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  • Fathers need to teach their daughters that self esteem and one's own beauty does not come from men's attraction to them, it comes from within. Once a woman learns to gage their beauty and self esteem from men's reactions to them, they are hooked for life, a life of chasing after men's reactions. Meanwhile, men will go after a light socket if it solves their problem.

    I agree, but human nature being what it is, women naturally seek the affections of men, and often they'll, even if subtly, change their attitudes and their sense of self in order to conform to the wishes of men.  That's actually the natural order, but it's become perverted due to Original Sin and even more by the evils of modern society.  So, if men were properly ordered in what they sought from women, then women would in turn become ordered to that.  And this speaks to Matthew's OP, that men will influence these young ladies according to what they themselves are looking for and the harm that Matthew sees in thinking this way.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 11:04:53 AM »
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  • Meanwhile, men will go after a light socket if it solves their problem.

    :laugh1:

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 11:09:46 AM »
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  • TRIGGER WARNING 
    for those w/o a sense of humor, skip this link.


    When the serious discussion is over, and you men are done discussing women as though they were commodities, you might give a listen to this... :jester:


    Offline B from A

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 12:21:49 PM »
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  • TRIGGER WARNING
    for those w/o a sense of humor, skip this link.


    When the serious discussion is over, and you men are done discussing women as though they were commodities, you might give a listen to this...


    "An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time"

    :jester:

    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Single guys looking for a TEN, don't ruin young female Trads!
    « Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 12:31:46 PM »
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  • Isn’t so much of the problem that the culture of contraception and the promiscuity which flows from it has lead to the idea that the ‘ideal’ woman is essentially a sex doll, with a perpetually young body not touched by pregnancy and unnatural, unfeminine and lustful obsession with sexual gratification. 

    When God designed the ideal to be one of purity, marriage and motherhood.  

     

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