Author Topic: Should your children associate with non-Catholics? (Read 2276 times)

Matthew · « **on:** June 16, 2009, 10:10:12 AM »

If I had to advise parents, I should tell them to take great care about the people with whom their children associate... Much harm may result from bad company, and we are inclined by nature to follow what is worse rather than what is better.

St. Elizabeth Ann Seton (1774-1821AD) on Bad Company
Mini-Bio: American; wife and mother, founder and first superior of the Sisters of Charity

trent13 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2009, 02:05:02 PM »

I agree, it's a danger - it's actually even a danger sending them to schools - even trad schools b/c there are certain parents that are far more lax than others, and can introduce a certain amount of the world into the classroom, and then into the home thereby.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2009, 03:40:01 PM »

The best thing you can do is get to know the parents of the children they're hanging around. That will give you a good idea of the kind of children you're dealing with in the first place. I agree that you need to be very cautious on who you let them hang out with. One thing I would recommend is to look into the temperament of your children, as it will give you an idea how they will react in certain situations.

Like, I know one of my daughters is pretty much a pure sanguine, and she is a major follower... really is impressionable, and can be defiant at times if she doesn't agree with me on something (like the pants issue is really getting on my nerves already :faint:). I make her wear dresses or skirts, and she can't leave the house until she changes, and I won't let her wear immodest clothes at all. Sometimes, she'll fight me, although, I've been taking her shopping myself, to show her how difficult it is to find things. It's getting better though. She recognizes when someone's dressed immodestly, and will quip when she sees it. The pants thing, however, irritates me. Her grandmother gave all kinds of excuses as to why she should be able to wear pants (i.e. we live in a cold climate, et cetera, you know, the usual lame arguments). I'd make her wear a skirt over them, but she got into the habit, since her grandmother didn't reinforce my wishes, of wearing them without one. I gotta buy some more legwarmers that fit her...

Garage sales...

Oh, and I absolutely forbid Disney movies (but my oh so wise mother in law :cussing: overrode my wishes and let them secretly watch the filth at her house, and I didn't find out about it until months after the fact.) Then you hear "Grandma let us do it." It's like "WTH..." The truly surprising thing is that my mother in law goes to daily (traditional) Mass, and says the daily rosary, and still, does this kind of thing. It's frigging irritating!

I have an indult (traditional) Catholic sister in law who regularly wears pants, too, and that's confusing to my daughter as well. You just tell them what's right, and hope that they make an impression if the people you're talking about are family.

I don't have a lot of outside acquaintances, because I have a very few close friends, and I really watch who my children are hanging around. More often than not, I get comments as to how well the children behave themselves outside the house (and they're certainly not very obedient around here.

). But the parents and such are mostly edified by their behavior. Occasionally I'll get a comment on my son and how he is mean, but that's usually when he's severely outnumbered by girls

.

kittycat496 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2009, 03:04:43 PM »

Wait, Disney? Are you talking about the people that made Finding Nemo and Lady and the Tramp? I've never heard anything bad about them. Why don't you want kids watching them? I don't mean to sound rude I'm just curious because I watched them as a kid, I know many elementary teachers that show them in the classroom, and when I have kids I can't see any reason not to show them the movies to. (if there's something I don't know about them then I need to talk to some of the teachers I know about weather they should be shown in class)

Also would you mind sharing with me on the pants issue. Are Catholic girls allowed to wear pants? Or is it a personal thing for you and your family?

TheD · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2009, 03:38:13 PM »

Here is a good link about telivision:
http://www.sspx.org/District_Superiors_Ltrs/2007_ds_ltrs/february_2007_ds_ltr.htm

Dawn · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2009, 03:44:34 PM »

Hey, Parents for Truth, I think my oldest daughter is your daughters clone! Yes, it does make life interesting. Although in my case it is my mother who lives like a hippie. Funny thing though. My dd will tell me hundreds of times and hundreds of ways that I am off my rocker, but let anyone else do it and she fumes!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2009, 03:59:37 PM »

Quote from: kittycat496

Wait, Disney? Are you talking about the people that made Finding Nemo and Lady and the Tramp? I've never heard anything bad about them. Why don't you want kids watching them? I don't mean to sound rude I'm just curious because I watched them as a kid, I know many elementary teachers that show them in the classroom, and when I have kids I can't see any reason not to show them the movies to. (if there's something I don't know about them then I need to talk to some of the teachers I know about weather they should be shown in class)

Disney is trash.

Quote

Also would you mind sharing with me on the pants issue. Are Catholic girls allowed to wear pants? Or is it a personal thing for you and your family?

Women should wear distinguishing modest dress. It's not directly part of the Catholic Faith, but the reason Western women wear pants has everything to do with anti-Catholic trends in society, blurring the roles between men and women. And pants are less modest.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2009, 06:21:35 PM »

Quote from: kittycat496

Wait, Disney? Are you talking about the people that made Finding Nemo and Lady and the Tramp? I've never heard anything bad about them. Why don't you want kids watching them? I don't mean to sound rude I'm just curious because I watched them as a kid, I know many elementary teachers that show them in the classroom, and when I have kids I can't see any reason not to show them the movies to. (if there's something I don't know about them then I need to talk to some of the teachers I know about weather they should be shown in class)

Also would you mind sharing with me on the pants issue. Are Catholic girls allowed to wear pants? Or is it a personal thing for you and your family?

The Disney company has been advocating anti-Catholicism for many years. I could go into avid detail about the things they sponsored, but let me just give you a couple of examples.

First, their movie "Priest." Absolutely disgusting. It was on their Miramax label.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_(film)

Second, the movie, "Dogma" which was again, put on Miramax, one of their labels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma_(film)

Thirdly, haven't you heard about the subtleties that have been inserted into their "children's" movies?

For instance, the "pastor" in "The Little Mermaid" that has a visible erection during the ceremony?

Or the pollen when the Lion lies down on that mountain spelling out the word "Sex?"

Or Alladin, when you can hear "take off your clothes" not once, but twice in the movie?

Here is a compilation of some of them.

Just look at Ursula. Is this something you want your little girl watching?

She's fat, and she has huge breasts busting out immodestly.

Not to mention the fact that their movie "Powder" was produced by a convicted pedophile.

http://www.vachss.com/mission/disney.html

Wanna go back further? How about Donald Duck as a nαzι?

"We bring the world new order..."

Riiight.

I could go on, but chew on this first. I've been boycotting Disney (my family has) since I was 12, so for 20 years now.

kittycat496 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2009, 10:33:41 PM »

Wow, actually I had never noticed those things in the Disney movies. I never would have thought to even look for something like that. I have seen the Lion King a bunch of times (first time when I was 7 it was awesome) and I never thought that the pollen spelled anything, it was always just random swirls to me.

I have a question why are pants immodest? Wouldn't they cover more then a skirt since they can't fly up? Is it all pants that are less modest or just tight pants? I'm trying to understand, since I run around in pants all the time.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:04:57 AM »

Quote from: kittycat496

Wow, actually I had never noticed those things in the Disney movies. I never would have thought to even look for something like that. I have seen the Lion King a bunch of times (first time when I was 7 it was awesome) and I never thought that the pollen spelled anything, it was always just random swirls to me.

I have a question why are pants immodest? Wouldn't they cover more then a skirt since they can't fly up? Is it all pants that are less modest or just tight pants? I'm trying to understand, since I run around in pants all the time.

It took me a while before I totally got rid of the pants.

I haven't worn pants in public in a few years now.

I guess you could gauge your modesty by asking yourself if Our Lady would wear whatever you consider wearing.

My daughters wear leg warmers in the winter when it's cold out. Sometimes, I'll allow them to wear pants underneath a skirt, but not pants by themselves.

If you get long enough skirts, modest ones, you shouldn't have to worry about them flying up. I usually gauge the modesty of a skirt by the length. If it doesn't go past your knees, definitely immodest. It should extend past your kneecaps. Most of mine go down to my ankles, but that's because I prefer them that long. My daughters' skirts and dresses must go past their kneecaps in order for them to be worn. Anything shorter than that is really pushing it in terms of modesty.

Lately, some stupid designers have been adding slits into the skirts. Some of them are very long slits. The solution to this is to not buy skirts with very long slits, or take a needle and thread and sew them up yourself.

Pants are more immodest, IMO, because of the fact that you can see your um... buttcheeks. Which is unbecoming of a lady. Also, if your shirts are short, a man can also stare at your um.... frontal area, which is not appropriate either.

One thing you could consider if you're not ready to get rid of your pants, is to wear long shirts. I did that for a while, and eventually I just got rid of pants. Wearing a long shirt covers you up a bit better. Pants, IMO, are also really uncomfortable, and you'll realize this fact if you get in the habit of wearing skirts on a regular basis.

Another thing you could do, is if you're not quite comfortable with skirts just yet, is to wear a pair of shorts underneath them until you get used to them.

A promising fact is this, and I've noticed this since I cut out the pants completely.

:rahrah:

Men open doors for ladies that are wearing skirts and dresses far more oft than they do for ladies wearing pants. You walk differently, you act more feminine. It's a proven fact that your attitude when you're dressed more feminine is that you start to act more feminine. We need that in this world, anyhow, and the more people there are doing it, the more acceptable it will become, and it may even become more of a NORM again with your good example.

I hope this helps a bit. :wink:

clare · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:41:19 AM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

If you get long enough skirts, modest ones, you shouldn't have to worry about them flying up.

Really? I generally wear skirts which pretty much reach my ankles, and in a sudden breeze they do blow up.

Also, I find that when I get up from kneeling, a foot will get caught and, if the waists were elasticated, the skirt could be pulled right down! Fortunately, my skirt waists aren't elasticated, but it is still a trip hazard!

Trousers are much safer! With a long top to conceal the hip area, ideally.

kittycat496 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:28:26 AM »

Hrm, my problem would be a lady wouldn't wear what I wear because a lady wouldn't be doing what I do most of the time. I mean maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to imagine the more feminine ladies I know getting up to their hips in a river chasing snails for the lab, or being in the Chemistry lab. I'm training to be a physician and in pre-med that means doing some pretty nasty and dirty things that are plain simpler in pants.

I have one friend who wears skirts and that caused us no end of grief when she was trying to do things in our mixed gendered health class.

Do any of your girls in the hard sciences, where a skirt might be a bit of an issue? How do they get along in classes were they deal with dangerous chemicals? (my lab teacher thinks that skirts are more likely to allow a chemical burn then pants.)

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2009, 09:45:53 AM »

Maybe you should pick a more traditionally feminine line of work, something more in line with the feminine nature --

Healthcare, culinary arts, childcare, teaching, accounting, etc.
(This isn't a full list of course)

All of those careers go along with, and support, the talents/gifts God gives to women. And none of those careers would require pants.

Matthew

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:17:32 AM »

Quote from: kittycat496

Hrm, my problem would be a lady wouldn't wear what I wear because a lady wouldn't be doing what I do most of the time. I mean maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to imagine the more feminine ladies I know getting up to their hips in a river chasing snails for the lab, or being in the Chemistry lab. I'm training to be a physician and in pre-med that means doing some pretty nasty and dirty things that are plain simpler in pants.

I have one friend who wears skirts and that caused us no end of grief when she was trying to do things in our mixed gendered health class.

Do any of your girls in the hard sciences, where a skirt might be a bit of an issue? How do they get along in classes were they deal with dangerous chemicals? (my lab teacher thinks that skirts are more likely to allow a chemical burn then pants.)

I used to be a CNA, and I wore pants with a long shirt, but that was before I really realized how important skirts were, and if I had to go back and do it again, I would find or have made some white skirts for me.

To put this in perspective, look at the nuns who used to be in the hospitals doing nurse work in their habits years ago.

Here is a picture of a nurse dressed modestly:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pingnews/434451938/

Here's a more modern nurse also dressed modestly:

http://www.bsip.com/en/zoompopup-image-1942405-panier-0-etat_l-0-logutil_hd--pays_aff-USA.html

Here's a group of ladies dressed modestly, with two nurses flanking.

http://www.provena.org/StJoes/images/125/2013%20old%20hosp%201924%20student%20nurses%20w%20sisters.jpg

Here are two nurses in training, dressed modestly:

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/LIFPOD/887546~Paula-and-Susan-Fox-Sisters-Who-Are-Student-Nurses-at-Wesley-Memorial-Hospital-Posters.jpg

I believe these are Salvation Army nurses, but they're dressed modestly as well:

http://www.miscuse.dk/womeninuniform/nurse/nurse74b.jpg

Most of the dresses/skirts that were worn by working women back in those days, had skirts that came past their knees, and were sort of slimline skirts, not form fitting, but straight, and not frilly or wide.

Here's what a lot of nurses in the UK wear:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.miscuse.dk/womeninuniform/nurse/nurse74b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.miscuse.dk/womeninuniform/nurse/nurses.htm&usg=__RJ44UE1T0azIUV8imNJz9c9Q6cc=&h=324&w=379&sz=20&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=M4CorLJQtQqddM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bsisters%2Bnurses%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1

That's a very good illustration.

Seems in Asia they always wear skirts too, and if I recall, they have a lot of people working in labs and dangerous areas.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNM/UNM153/portrait-two-nurses_~u25023541.jpg

I thought this was cute. Two Canadian nurses. :smile:

http://pw20c.mcmaster.ca/files/pw20c_images/00001532.jpg

I just had to post this one. Here's a nurse working in a pediatric ward.

http://www.trinitashospital.org/images/photo_history7b.jpg

Here's a huge group of graduates from a nursing class. There are 80 here, all dressed modestly.

http://www.deedy.com/blog/uploaded_images/1919_Jane_Austin_Sullivan_Nurse-747041.jpg

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:32:50 PM »

I'm a big fan of TraditionInAction. I know some people here are not, but I really enjoy reading their cultural pages.

They have several good articles on modesty that I will post here.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A005_Fashion.htm

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/k013rpModestyGirls_Stretenovic.html

If Gregory XVII was the pope, then this just adds more weight to the argument. Here is a letter he wrote concerning women in trousers.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/n054rp_WomensDress.htm

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/C016cpVanityOrVirtue_Plinio.htm

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/C001cp.htm

Here's a rebuttal, and an answer to concerns about the above controversial article:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/E002_ObjecttoGoodCustoms.htm