Thorn, thanks for the idea. I've read the USCCB voting guide, which I'm guessing wouldn't be much different from a trad publication considering the limited choices.

Quote from: PenitentWoman

Quote from: brotherfrancis75

What Alaric says above is "spot on."  But that also only emphasises that in our domestic lives as Catholics we shall always live at least AS IF we are living in a proper and happy hereditary monarchy.  

Brother Francis,  this brings me back to the original question. Should people not vote/participate in the process of democracy?  

If so, where would someone like myself (a single woman) figure out who to vote for?

Dear Penitent Woman,

In my humble but well-educated opinion, some suggestions for our Catholic ladies concerning politics might include:  1)  Most of all, the ladies shouldn't themselves take politics altogether too seriously.  We men ENJOY a good fight now and then and often our political quarrels include much male excess energy in need of an outlet.  For laymen, applying such energies to Catholic politics is usually most admirable, but for Catholic women that would probably only be a waste of your own precious time.  In other words, Catholic women need to keep a good sense of humor when it comes to scrappy male politics.  VERY few of us men are anything like perfect!  (Lord knows...)

2)  Our Romanity includes the key idea of CITIZENSHIP.  Our more intelligent Catholic women therefore do have an important contribution to make to Catholic politics, or ROMAN politics.  But much the greatest contribution Catholic ladies could make to our politics would be to mightily support very SERIOUS Catholic education, including an intelligent teaching of our Roman Catholic political heritage.  For example, our schools ought to teach the writings of Dante Alighieri and our Holy Bible with attention to the political implications contained in those most crucial books, alongside the innumerable other strands of wisdom contained within them.  Receiving a political education well grounded in the Catholic Bible and Dante Alighieri would surely do more for our Catholic politics than anything else.

3)  In politics our Catholic ladies should know that the men have not been doing their military duties very well lately, so at present nothing remotely resembling any "democratic process" either does or reasonably could be expected to exist.  When we Catholic men are such an embarrassing mob of quivering lily-livered wonders, democracy can only be a distant memory from a long-vanished past.  In America the last genuine democratic politics died with President Garfield back in 1881 and since then America has gone through the usual process of oligarchy, dictatorship and tyranny as outlined by Plato.  To participate in the American democratic process we would have to leap into our time machines and go back and bravely fight for the Confederacy.  But it's a bit late for that now...

4)  Given that educated Catholics must deny the existence of contemporary political democracy, the actual purpose of our political organizations is above all to influence the military and help create a Catholic military leadership that would behave themselves like Catholic men and apply military force appropriately (VIRTUOUSLY!).  We Catholics have practically never risen to power through electoral politics, but almost always through influencing and forming elites in the most important cities that in turn come to power due to their awesome spiritual and natural superiority over everyone else.  For example:  Augustus, Vespasian, Constantine, Charlemagne, the Ottonian Emperors, the Hohenstauffen Emperors, the Hapsburg Emperors, the Napoleonic Emperors and the more recent German Reichs.  (In politics the late German Emperor Wilhelm II was a great and totally loyal Catholic Emperor in everything but name, as much earlier were the Old Testament Catholic Augustus Caesar and the private Catholic Vespasian.)

So good Catholic ladies should support our Catholic politics especially by strongly supporting high-quality Catholic education and our incomparable Roman civilization.  And good Catholic manners are also a truly important example that only Catholic ladies can effectively achieve for all of us.  (Our Catholic laymen need to be much too busy breaking heads to have any sufficient time for that!)

5)  Voting for the lesser of unspeakable evils (to mention the names of Obama or Romney is to grab desperately for our "vomit bags") is practically irrelevant to our Catholic politics.  Only Catholic ladies can have the opportunity and ability to do the hardest work to uphold our Catholic EDUCATION and CIVILIZATION and it is through making those singular contributions that you can and should undergird our Catholic politics and all the sometimes foolish male sport that forms it.

In brief, to have a Catholic politics we require Catholic NATIONS.  What can our good Catholic ladies contribute to the formation of genuine real-life Catholic national leaderships?  THAT is the Catholic women's politics that we are in GREAT need of in our time.  Our only serious politics today must be Catholic Nationalism, which was once also referred to as "Catholic Imperialism."  Our polltics are simply our Romanity applied to the public life of this dark and fallen world.  

That politics can also be summed up as in essence simply another name for ROMAN IMPERIALISM.  Everything good Catholic ladies can truly do to further that most noble goal is the one and only true Catholic politics for you.


Your unworthy and devoted Franciscan friend,

Brother Francis  

P.S.:  Vote if you wish, but we are now living in another "Dark Age of King Arthur."  We live in an Age of Heroes that is now far gone beyond any possible solution by mere rigged voting machines...

Brother Francis, thank you for such an in-depth answer. Number 1 on your list is easy for me, as I tend to be apathetic towards American politics.

I enjoyed reading your ideas about women getting involved through the Catholic education  system. As a product of the Catholic school system in America, I can tell you that all history and political teaching was in the context of how the RCC can assimilate and still thrive under the American government. The idea of a Catholic rise to power would most certainly have  been considered, ideological   nonsense. Big families and homeschooling might be the only
 option for passing these things to the next generation, along with trying  to live by example no matter how counter cultural that feels.



These discussions always leave me feeling very ignorant, but bless you for taking the time to answer me.

men shouldnt vote either

ideal govent is catholic monarchy

guarantee catholic primacy in our country

we could be CKA

Catholic Kingdom of America

ok, then, who is king? we have no nobility nor royalty to draw from......just appoint some schluch?

Also, Nicholas of Fluh and Bellermine did write that Catholics in Catholic nations could have representative Govt.....though not "we the people" democracy........just saying, electing reps not wholly anti-Catholic...

 I pray for the whole system to collapse someday.

coming, very, very soon...... :tv-disturbed:

Here is Prestonia Martin's take on votes for women

In my view, a serious problem with permitting women to vote is that women tend to vote mainly for their own interests while men vote for both the interests of men and women.  This skews the social policy drastically towards the selfish interests of women, because male politicians are afraid to pursue the male vote directly, and are unlikely to get it even if they did, because of this tendency of men to consider the interests of women.

Getting rid of "democracy"  some day will more than take care of this "women voting" issue all byt itself.

A lot of feminist legislation was already enacted long before women could vote.

Men were already inclined to sacrifice their old rights and privileges (or have them taken by the judicial branch) long before women could vote.

Letting women vote has essentially robbed men of the ability to see their interests protected in family law.

A woman will be the one (whose son's child was murdered by the mother's new boyfriend) that is energized to do something about men's rights. (I know of such a case)  Men who stand up to women are just not given a hearing, generally speaking.  

We've seen often how supposedly "conservative" women will gang up on any man who challenges the feminist status quo.

When women do vote, like any other group, they follow the herd instinct and always stick with their own kind.

With putting women to work after world war two, it isn't surprising that they would want the power that came along with the responsibility of working.  It also isn't surprising that a sɛҳuąƖ revolution would follow and a desire to control the natural consequences of that.  After all, when torn between two incompatible responsibilities (child birth and rearing vs providing) women would be tempted to want an unnatural ability "to choose."  

So, on the national level, I don't think you can solve the voting problem or the sɛҳuąƖ revolution and birth control revolution, without solving the working problem.  Of course, I don't think you can solve the immigration problem or the low birth rate problem, without solving the working problem.  Working women seem to be pretty much a national disaster  

Once women were put into the labor force and then sent into a nice career path where they did NOT need a man, along with access to abortion and contraception, that led to our current birthrate disaster.

But as Mr. Bush said, "Successful societies recognize the rights of women..." (even though women had no rights before 1900). :wink:

Quote from: Renzo

With putting women to work after world war two, it isn't surprising that they would want the power that came along with the responsibility of working.  It also isn't surprising that a sɛҳuąƖ revolution would follow and a desire to control the natural consequences of that.  After all, when torn between two incompatible responsibilities (child birth and rearing vs providing) women would be tempted to want an unnatural ability "to choose."  

So, on the national level, I don't think you can solve the voting problem or the sɛҳuąƖ revolution and birth control revolution, without solving the working problem.  Of course, I don't think you can solve the immigration problem or the low birth rate problem, without solving the working problem.  Working women seem to be pretty much a national disaster  

Once women were put into the labor force and then sent into a nice career path where they did NOT need a man, along with access to abortion and contraception, that led to our current birthrate disaster.

But as Mr. Bush said, "Successful societies recognize the rights of women..." (even though women had no rights before 1900). :wink:

Yeah, but somehow those "succcessful societies" never seem to recognize women's basic right, in a just society, to be mothers and homemakers and not be driven into the workplace, academia, politics and the military.