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Author Topic: Have to perform in a NO church!  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline Pelly

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Have to perform in a NO church!
« on: December 08, 2013, 06:38:49 AM »
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  • I'm in the school choir and currently we're preparing to our Christmas show. But I have a problem.
    We have to perform in a NO church next week.


    Offline soulguard

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    Have to perform in a NO church!
    « Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 10:51:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pelly
    I'm in the school choir and currently we're preparing to our Christmas show. But I have a problem.
    We have to perform in a NO church next week.


    Don't go, and btw leave the choir IMO


    Offline Marlelar

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    Have to perform in a NO church!
    « Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 11:13:25 AM »
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  • So what is the problem?  It would be like performing at the local hall.  There is no real presence so there is no sacrilege.  

    In between songs says silent prayers for the salvation of all those in attendance.

    Marsha

    Offline Pelly

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    « Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 12:48:24 PM »
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  • We have to sing a Bach song called O Jesulein Süß.

    Offline soulguard

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    « Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 01:26:24 PM »
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  • You are encouraging unsuspecting people to go to a novus ordo church.
    Once they get used to the building and think it is Catholic ( from your songs)
    they will go to the only mass on offer there, the novus ordo.
    Much better to let these churches die of old age IMO.
     :cool:


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Have to perform in a NO church!
    « Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 04:41:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pelly
    We have to sing a Bach song called O Jesulein Süß.


    J.S. Bach is a great composer.  

    Some think he was a closet Catholic who just pretended to be Lutheran so he could get his bills paid and feed his large family.  His compositions are very good and even useful for Catholic applications.  Many of his works are used in Traditional Catholic settings, such as Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, and O Sacred Head Surrounded.

    If it's part of your school program your grades and record could suffer if you don't go.

    You're going to be up against a lot more of this in life, so maybe it's better if you find out how to deal with it.  If you had to perform in a Lutheran or a Unitarian church, would that be any different?  It's the music you're doing this for, and the learning experience.  You're not there to be part of any religious exercise or ceremony.

    I don't think it's a big deal.  You're mature enough to know what's up.  


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    Offline Pelly

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    « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 07:38:32 AM »
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  • It's a choir convention.

    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 02:39:46 PM »
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  • Are you required to participate in any type of worship?  If not, I don't see a problem.  I work in a building owned by a Protestant denomination, park my car in a lot owned by a Jєω, and live in a building owned by a Buddhist.  That doesn't make me a heretic, Jєω, or a pagan!  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Petertherock

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    Have to perform in a NO church!
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 02:58:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    So what is the problem?  It would be like performing at the local hall.  There is no real presence so there is no sacrilege.  

    In between songs says silent prayers for the salvation of all those in attendance.

    Marsha


    You are wrong. If there is a tabernacle in the Church with the Blessed Sacrament in it, then there is a Real Presence.

    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 03:58:47 PM »
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  •  :confused1:
    Peter may have a point.  Is the Blessed Sacrament present in the room where you will be performing?  IME, most novus ordo churches have Our Lord, if He's even there, secreted away in a side room.  If you are performing sacred music, I still don't see a problem.  If the music is of a secular nature, then I'd check the church in advance.  Maybe the priest will remove Our Lord to another place such as is done at some Traditional chapels in order to have a conference.  Secular music should not be performed before Our Lord.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 05:03:02 PM »
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  • .

    Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote from: Marlelar
    So what is the problem?  It would be like performing at the local hall.  There is no real presence so there is no sacrilege.  

    In between songs says silent prayers for the salvation of all those in attendance.

    Marsha


    You are wrong. If there is a tabernacle in the Church with the Blessed Sacrament in it, then there is a Real Presence.



    This is the danger of sede-ism.  A sede-ist might be presuming incorrectly, and there might be the Real Presence there, and if so, would act according to false principles and disrespect Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.  Whether or WE BELIEVE that He is present is not the determining factor.  Either He IS or he IS NOT, and we are not supposed to be the ones judging that question.


    Quote from: Frances

    :confused1:

    Peter may have a point.  Is the Blessed Sacrament present in the room where you will be performing?  IME, most novus ordo churches have Our Lord, if He's even there, secreted away in a side room.  If you are performing sacred music, I still don't see a problem.  If the music is of a secular nature, then I'd check the church in advance.  Maybe the priest will remove Our Lord to another place such as is done at some Traditional chapels in order to have a conference.  Secular music should not be performed before Our Lord.  




    Good point, Frances.  If the tabernacle is visible, it should be open door, and empty.

    If the tabernacle is not plainly visible (as in a growing number of NovusOrdo Newchurch buildings) then the door should still be open, and the inside emptied of its contents, first of which is the Blessed Sacrament.  

    Depending on the venue, it might be difficult for Pelly to find out where the tabernacle is, and whether it is empty.  She might find the tabernacle in a broom closet, for example (they are in places like that now-a-days) and locked closed.  But then, upon asking someone who ought to know, she might find that   A)  they do not know whether the tabernacle is in fact empty, or  B)  they don't care to find out for her because they have more important things to do and she could only be asking that question if she's a troublemaker.  

    She could actually get in trouble with her instructor or her school if they discover that she's going around looking for information or asking such questions.  

    I would recommend, Pelly, that you go to the venue in advance of the day of the choir convention, and quietly walk around to find the tabernacle and then politely ask if you can speak to the pastor.  When you do, it might be best to not let him know that you are in one of the choirs, but that you are a Catholic who has found other such locations where there are improper things going on, and that it is really proper to have the tabernacle empty and the door open, during any secular use of the church - like this is going to be.  

    Your telling him that in advance might be the only time he has ever heard it.  

    If you have a convincing approach, of which I am confident you are capable, Pelly, you might be the agent God has found to give this pastor a message that he would never receive even from his bishop.  God works in mysterious ways.


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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 05:20:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote from: Marlelar
    So what is the problem?  It would be like performing at the local hall.  There is no real presence so there is no sacrilege.  

    In between songs says silent prayers for the salvation of all those in attendance.

    Marsha


    You are wrong. If there is a tabernacle in the Church with the Blessed Sacrament in it, then there is a Real Presence.



    This is the danger of sede-ism.  A sede-ist might be presuming incorrectly, and there might be the Real Presence there, and if so, would act according to false principles and disrespect Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.  Whether or WE BELIEVE that He is present is not the determining factor.  Either He IS or he IS NOT, and we are not supposed to be the ones judging that question.


     




    ???

    Doubt surrounding the new orders is the danger of the newchurch.  It affects all Catholics.  Why do you think the SSPX conditionally ordained priests coming from the Novus Ordo?  The problems with the new rites of ordination and episcopal consecration remain whether one thinks the see is vacant or not.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline claudel

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    « Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 07:59:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Pelly
    We have to sing a Bach song called O Jesulein Süß.


    It's not a Bach "song" or cantata movement or anything else of the sort. It's a Christmas carol of German origin sung throughout the Christian world. The title "O Jesulein süß" is widely known, but it is even better known in the English-speaking lands as "O Little One Sweet." I sing it myself at home every year at this time (softly enough not to horrify my music-loving neighbors with my croaking , of course)

    Unless the expectation is that you are going to be dressed in a Muslim caftan and a Jєωιѕн prayer shawl when you perform, why not just stop all this whingeing and instead rejoice in the fact that you are being offered the opportunity to celebrate the birth of Our Lord and Savior in one of the most spiritually and socially satisfying ways imaginable?