Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?  (Read 1441 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geremia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4120
  • Reputation: +1259/-259
  • Gender: Male
    • St. Isidore e-book library
Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
« on: November 23, 2016, 11:00:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Should a traditional Catholic celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day, "Thanksgiving"?

    It commemorates "Pilgrims" (trans.: heretics escaping England's heretics to come to a "Holy Land") being at "peace" with (really: slaughtering/enslaving) Native Americans.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline Disputaciones

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1667
    • Reputation: +472/-178
    • Gender: Male
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #1 on: November 23, 2016, 11:35:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That time of the year again eh.

    It has already been shown here in previous years that apparently the Church before V2 did indeed approve of Thanksgiving.


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4120
    • Reputation: +1259/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 11:38:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    That time of the year again eh.

    It has already been shown here in previous years that apparently the Church before V2 did indeed approve of Thanksgiving.
    Yes, I know Pope Pius XII gave an indulgence for U.S. Catholics to be able to eat the leftover meat on the Friday following "Puritan Thanksgiving," but there's also an indulgence for Communion in the hand…
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline Gabriella

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +68/-85
    • Gender: Female
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 01:12:06 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanksgiving in many ways comes from St. Martins Day in Europe and they ate a goose with a big celebration.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 01:19:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The first Thanksgiving was a Catholic Mass!

    http://aleteia.org/2016/11/22/the-first-thanksgiving-in-america-was-a-catholic-mass/

    Did you know that the first “thanksgiving” meal in the United States was not celebrated by the Pilgrims in Plymouth, but by Spanish settlers, in what became Florida? And that first “Thanksgiving” was Eucharistic!

    Historian Dr. Michael Gannon narrates the events that took place on September 8, 1565.

    “When the first Spanish settlers landed in what is now St. Augustine on September 8, 1565, to build a settlement, their first act was to hold a religious service to thank God for the safe arrival of the Spanish fleet… After the Mass, Father Francisco Lopez, the Chaplin of the Spanish ships and the first pastor of St. Augustine, stipulated that the natives from the Timucua tribe be fed along with the Spanish settlers, including Don Pedro Menendez de Aviles, the leader of the expedition. It was the very first Thanksgiving and the first Thanksgiving meal in the United States.”

    The Spaniards, with food that they brought with them on the ship, prepared the communal meal. According to records, the meal would have consisted of salted pork, garbanzo beans, ship’s bread and red wine.

    This account of the first “thanksgiving” reflects what was found in Father Francisco’s memoirs. In it we read, “the feast day [was] observed . . . after Mass, ‘the Adelantado [Menendez] had the Indians fed and dined himself.’”

    The feast celebrated by the Spaniards was that of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s birthday, a day in the Church calendar that follows nine months after the feast of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on December 8 (which just happens to be the patronal feast of the United States of America).

    The meal “may have also included Caribbean foods that were probably collected when Menéndez stopped to regroup and resupply at San Juan Puerto Rico before continuing to Florida… If the Timucua contributed, it would likely have been with corn, fresh fish, berries, or beans.”

    Additionally, before the Mass was celebrated, “Father Francisco López, the fleet chaplain…came ashore ahead of Pedro Menéndez de Avilés, the leader of the founding expedition, and then went forward to meet Menéndez holding a cross… Menéndez came on land, knelt and kissed the cross.”

    This historical event reminds us that the Eucharist (from the Greek that literally means “thanksgiving”) is the primary way to offer thanks on Thanksgiving Day, followed by a meal shared in a spirit of fraternity. Let God be a central part of your holiday! As Americans this is our heritage, one that we hope to pass on to the next generation.


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4120
    • Reputation: +1259/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 01:52:47 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Gabriella
    Thanksgiving in many ways comes from St. Martins Day in Europe and they ate a goose with a big celebration.
    Which St. Martin, the one we celebrated this month on the 11th (the confessor St. Martin) or the one one the 12th (the martyr Pope St. Martin)?

    Anyways, Nov. 24 is the feast of St. John of the Cross. Let's celebrate that.  :ready-to-eat:
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +484/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 01:56:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Gabriella
    Thanksgiving in many ways comes from St. Martins Day in Europe and they ate a goose with a big celebration.
    Which St. Martin, the one we celebrated this month on the 11th (the confessor St. Martin) or the one one the 12th (the martyr Pope St. Martin)?

    Anyways, Nov. 24 is the feast of St. John of the Cross. Let's celebrate that. :ready-to-eat:


    Make sure then that you pick up asparagus.  St. John of the Cross had a weak spot for that veggie.   :wink:

    Offline Disputaciones

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1667
    • Reputation: +472/-178
    • Gender: Male
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 03:28:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Gabriella
    Thanksgiving in many ways comes from St. Martins Day in Europe and they ate a goose with a big celebration.
    Which St. Martin, the one we celebrated this month on the 11th (the confessor St. Martin) or the one one the 12th (the martyr Pope St. Martin)?

    Anyways, Nov. 24 is the feast of St. John of the Cross. Let's celebrate that. :ready-to-eat:


    Make sure then that you pick up asparagus.  St. John of the Cross had a weak spot for that veggie.   :wink:


    Where did you read that?


    Offline St Ignatius

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1024
    • Reputation: +794/-158
    • Gender: Male
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #8 on: November 23, 2016, 04:08:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Yes, I know Pope Pius XII gave an indulgence for U.S. Catholics to be able to eat the leftover meat on the Friday following "Puritan Thanksgiving,"
    You sure you didn't mean dispensation? :cheers:

    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #9 on: November 23, 2016, 04:08:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's more regarding the first Thanksgivings being Catholic:


    http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/B_005_Onate_Thanksgiving.html


    http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/B_024_Augustine.html

    Btw, love the other posts here.  :ready-to-eat:



    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4120
    • Reputation: +1259/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #10 on: November 23, 2016, 04:10:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: magdalena
    Here's more regarding the first Thanksgiving  being Catholic


    http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/B_005_Onate_Thanksgiving.html

    Seems like arguing: "The first pagan vernal equinox festivals were Easter"
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4120
    • Reputation: +1259/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 04:23:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: St Ignatius
    Quote from: Geremia
    Yes, I know Pope Pius XII gave an indulgence for U.S. Catholics to be able to eat the leftover meat on the Friday following "Puritan Thanksgiving,"
    You sure you didn't mean dispensation? :cheers:
    Yes, thanks for the correction. :cheers:
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +484/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 07:21:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Gabriella
    Thanksgiving in many ways comes from St. Martins Day in Europe and they ate a goose with a big celebration.
    Which St. Martin, the one we celebrated this month on the 11th (the confessor St. Martin) or the one one the 12th (the martyr Pope St. Martin)?

    Anyways, Nov. 24 is the feast of St. John of the Cross. Let's celebrate that. :ready-to-eat:


    Make sure then that you pick up asparagus.  St. John of the Cross had a weak spot for that veggie.   :wink:


    Where did you read that?

    In an out-of-print Carmelite book that I borrowed from the nuns at a Discalced Carmelite Monastery.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 08:41:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Make sure then that you pick up asparagus.

    If you can find a parking spot at the grocery store, that is!  

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Should traditional Catholics celebrate a Puritan "Holy"day?
    « Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 09:08:54 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • There's nothing unCatholic about thanksgiving.  Every Mass is thanksgiving for God's blessings.

    But we should "give thanks" AFTER our meal, not before it.  When we pray before eating we are removing the food from the dominion of the devil and asking God's blessing for us who are about to consume it, for our spiritual aid and to protect us from the effects of perhaps overeating (by helping us to not overeat in the first place).  

    When they tried to kill St. Benedict he gave his blessing over the poisoned wine and a snake crawled out of the cup. That was the poison making a hasty retreat.  So he then he drank the wine without ill effect.

    Quote from: Geremia

    Should a traditional Catholic celebrate a Puritan "Holy" day, "Thanksgiving?"


    Only if you make the SIGN OF THE CROSS LARGE and say your traditional Catholic Blessing Before Meals clearly, distinctly and with precision so all can hear.  Of course, it never hurts to take the opportunity to say a few words of welcome to out of town guests, first, before the Sign of the Cross.

    And remember that "thanks" belongs at the END of the meal:  

    "We give Thee thanks, almighty God for these and all Thy benefits, Who livest and reignest forever.  May the souls of the Faithful Departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.  Amen."

    If you really want to blow them away, say it in Latin.

    Before dinner:

    Benedic, Domine, nos et haec tua dona, quae de tua largitate sumus sumpturi.  Per Christum Dominum nostrum.

    After dinner:

    Benedictus Deus in donis suis, et sanctus in omnibus operibus suis, qui vivat et regnat in saecula saeculorum. Fidelium animae per misericordiam Dei requiescant in pace.  

    And if you pass around prayer cards you can have everyone join in this Psalm:  
     
    Praise the Lord, all nations,  
    Praise him, all peoples.  
    For His mercy has been confirmed upon us,  
    and the truth of the Lord remains forever.  
    Glory be to the Father and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.  
            As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, for  
            ever and ever.  Amen.  


     
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.