Well, they effectively WERE banned before Vatican II.  What, were there maybe a small handful of annulments granted every year worldwide ... apart from the cut-and-dry cases where it was found that the person had been in a prior marriage or something?  This nonsense about psychological impediments and "immaturity", etc. was not even entertained.  That's what the priest did in marriage preparation, made sure that the couple knew exactly what they were getting into so that by the time they said their vows they knew full well what it entailed.

What did people do in that case?
It must have varied by country.  I assume Uganda and West Africa were very different than Portugal or Ireland in that the Africans have always had mistresses etc
I assume economic reality (women could not work and earn enough to fed and house themselves), meant that since divorce was practically impossible there was little demand for annulments.
Talking to very, very old people years ago I think such people went to live on the outside of the village, moved to a larger town or city where they could be anonymous and just kept their mouth shut about their domestic arrangements.  There was a sort of don't ask don't tell policy.

Because yes, if you're foolish and marry poorly, you ARE going to have to suck it up and pay the price.

Let's examine what foolish means.
To some degree marriage is a lottery.  There is an element of luck in it and an element of skill, like playing blackjack.  Unless you are an amazingly skillful blackjack player and can remember which cards have come up then luck is going to play a part in winning and losing.  You simply cannot control and "due-diligence" every factor.  Your wife could slip bang her head and end up mentally ill or develop tourettes or whatever.  She could hide stuff from you.  Trusting anyone is risky.
Luck plays a part in business success too.  We simply don't see the Jeff Bezos' and Bill Gates' rivals who failed so we imagine the Bezos had some sort of secret sauce or recipe for success.  He did, but he also had luck, how much we could debate forever.  

• The SSPX doesn't publish a risk reduction guide for marriage.
• Catholic schools don't teach much about it if anything
• Most marriage guidance is pretty vanilla stuff about the teaching of the Church.  You are lucky if it touches on practical matters.
• Before marriage people are on their best behaviour usually.
• Common sense isn't common, a lot of people lack common sense.
• The best advice comes from your father and brothers (assuming they know themselves).
• Young people, especially men, are driven by their hormones.  A man at 50 is FAR FAR FAR more sober in his decision making than a man at 21.  Cast your mind back to the late 80s or early 1990s.   If I think about the way I drive now I am MUCH more cautious and considerate of other road users.  I used to drive like a nutter when I was younger.  I never had a serious accident but I took some risks.  I was a much better driver too.  Now my reactions are slow and my night vision is worse and I need to drive like an old grandad.  I saw a lot of road accidents over the years and it dawned on me how suddenly you can be dead.  I get absolutely ZERO thrill from speeding today.
• Parents, generally speaking, do not get closely involved in the decisions unless they can see the person is making a HUGE mistake.  It would be interesting to discover how many people with disastrous marriages were warned not to go through with it by a parent, or older sibling.  Hindsight is 20/20

Trad communities are fractured and the number of choices are small.  ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE RESISTANCE.  We see people trying Catholic match, marrying women from the Philippines (which has its own risks because they are a pretty different culture) and we see men like Tele and others complaining (and I am sure that some of his complaints are real, because I have heard most of them from others) that the more attractive Catholic women in their early 20s don't want to date Trad men.  I actually know of women myself like this.  I grew up with them in London.  In their late teens and 20s they were dating non-Catholic men, some even lived with them in sin in some sort of perverted hope of converting and marrying them and now they are 46 and washed up.  I even had one around to dinner recently and she asked me if I knew any nice single men?

(None that I dislike that much I thought to myself)   ;D

Seriously, I know of nobody who is 50 and single and would want to marry a 46 year old woman.


I was always super confident and had a skin like a rhinoceros, did a lot of sport, took women on outrageous dates, asked anyone out without fear.  I had a reputation for it at the SSPX.

But even I only properly dated 14 women in my life.  Meaning I went on several dates and there was a clear mutual attraction and the next step was (or would have been) to get serious and start talking marriage (before they bailed or I bailed), i.e. take them home to meet your mother (she was dead but you get my point).  Several of them did meet my father.

I am not including single dates where I determined "thanks but no thanks".  10 of the 14 dumped me - too intense, just couldn't cope with my driven personality, everyday was like hard work when what they wanted was a pizza and chill on the couch.  They always dumped me for the same reason, which was useful because I knew then they were telling the truth.

My brothers dated maybe 2 women before they got married to the second or third woman they had dated (they are married today with 12 and 10 kids each).  Not because they did not want to date more women but because they took ages to build up the confidence to ask them out.  Between girlfriends I am going to reckon there was a 18 month gap for them.  For me...7 to 30 days.  It wasn't that I had women waiting in the wings, as such, but I just kept prospecting and turning up opportunities and giving it a go.  That is one advantage of being relentless, you are relentless.

Now, sure, I accept that if you take either of us with our 50 year old brains and put us in 25 year old bodies we could probably make super low risk choices and marry well again and again and again.  Because we know what good looks like.

How does a typical Trad man know that in his early 20s?

What "foolish" things does a Trad Catholic do that they could realistically avoid doing without knowing what foolish is?

Should they listen to MGTOW and MRA pundits?  No doubt those MGTOW guys have some idea of the problems and how to avoid bad women but do they know how to hunt down a good one?


These are my top tips.

Discount looks.  If you think you deserve an 8 out of 10 then drop down 2 just for the sake of experiment and be prepared to date a 6.   Don't avoid 8s or even a cheeky 9, but widen your scope.   I can tell you that the best looking women at the SSPX in London (1984-1994) are not the best looking middle age women now (sorry ladies!).  Some of the 6s have matured into attractive slim middle aged women.  Some of the 9s are landwhales today.  You just never can tell what 30 years will do to a woman.

You'll only have sex 12-36 times per year (if you're lucky).  You have to live with this woman the other 99.9% of the time.  A pretty women with zero personality or a nasty bitchy character is FAR harder to live with than a nice happier character who is somewhat plain looking.  People cannot help their looks after all.  As real love develops you find that person sɛҳuąƖly attractive because it is true what they say about the brain being the biggest sɛҳuąƖ organ.  It really is all in the mind.

God loves us after all and we are hideous compared to him.

Develop your own personality beyond just your religious life.  Learn to sing, ballroom dance, or some other performance skill.  If you are witty, develop and sharpen your wit.  Pick up some power tools, fix, paint.  If women don't like you as you are, or what you are developing into, run a mile.  There are plenty more fish in the sea, you just have to get a bigger net or superior bait.

Develop a thick skin.  In 30 years nobody is going to care that a woman said "no" to a date with you.  Smile, say, "well I had to ask, otherwise I would have forever regretted it", and move on to the next opportunity.  Turn over rocks and learn what you don't like so that you will be ready to pot commit to Mrs. Right when she comes along.  That is important.  Not letting the good woman slip though your fingers.  If she is good she will be snapped up by the competition pretty darned fast.

Greg said a married couple would only have sex 12-36 times a year (if they were lucky).

Is it really true that a married couple would be lucky to have sex so few times? I was never married so I wouldn't know and I have never asked.

The "if they were lucky" line was a joke from the Four Yorkshiremen sketch.

...and we see men like Tele and others complaining (and I am sure that some of his complaints are real, because I have heard most of them from others) that the more attractive Catholic women in their early 20s don't want to date Trad men.  I actually know of women myself like this.  I grew up with them in London.  In their late teens and 20s they were dating non-Catholic men, some even lived with them in sin in some sort of perverted hope of converting and marrying them and now they are 46 and washed up.  I even had one around to dinner recently and she asked me if I knew any nice single men?

I don't think this was exactly his problem. He wasn't being pushed away because he was Trad, he was being pushed away because he was 10+ years older than the girl in question. Some people have no problem with this, others have a HUGE problem with it. His interest happened to fall toward a family who had a problem with it. (And then there's the unemployed at age 30 element ... I doubt that was working in his favor.)

Every three days would be good going.  Like the size of anglers' fish we will never know the truth.

I don't think frequency has a great deal to do with how many children you have so cannot be implied.  There are so many other factors involved including the man and woman's fertility that two couples having sex every three days versus every three weeks could end up with the same number of children.  The only thing you can say for sure is that a large number of families with 2 or 3 children after 15 years shows something is amiss in that population.

My 6 siblings have 52 between them.  I asked and so I am pretty sure I am right.   One thing about me, I collect data.

Anyway, suffice it to say Matto that it ranges from "a lot" to "sweet fanny adams".   Think of it like a scratchcard at the 7 to 11.

Totally different to what I expected as a young turk, but nice all the same.  On my deathbed, I reckon I will be thinking about my daughter winning her school's cross country race, my son's first boxing fight and how I rebuilt the house with my own two hands.  The kids and family unit are the best part of marriage for me by far.  Seeing them grow and thrive is the Jєωel in the crown.  If I had to get married again using a time machine that is what i would enjoy the most bringing up the children.

Greg said a married couple would only have sex 12-36 times a year (if they were lucky).

Is it really true that a married couple would be lucky to have sex so few times? I was never married so I wouldn't know and I have never asked.

Ggreg is speaking for himself...hahaha
Don't let him scare you away from marriage.