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Author Topic: Sexless marriages and very small families  (Read 62173 times)

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Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2019, 01:17:17 PM »
It depends what you mean by the marriage "going bad".  I think this type of thing can be avoided if God is allowed in our lives.
But I can think of many examples where very outwardly religious people split up.  In 1992/1993 when I lived there, they used to joke about the number or annulments in St. Mary's Kansas.  These were mostly Catholics who had allowed God into their lives so much that they moved across the country to be in an SSPX dominated town.
Other than outward signs of piety there is no way to tell whether the person has allowed God into their lives.
Mel Gibson made The Passion of the Christ and built his own church.  Had he allowed God into his life at that point?  Most people thought so at the time.

How's that assessment looking now?

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2019, 01:47:53 PM »
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In a very real and true sense, young men would be better off saying to Greg or Matthew, "you know me you choose for me".  Because we'd pick more suitable women and lower the risks.
It's why there used to be "arranged" marriages.  Or why young adults USED TO have their date hang around the family a lot (i.e. courtship).  As they say, "love is blind".


Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2019, 01:57:07 PM »
Lots of Trads don't have families to hang around.

Distance is a problem.  We are not in the same village.

I suspect the BIGGEST factor is the social pressure that existed in the past and no longer exists.  People in the village knew what you had done and reminded you every day.

Even when I was young in the 1980s being a single mother had a stigma attached to it.  In the last 20 years it has completely disappeared.

Same for prison.  When I was a nipper if you went to jail your life was over.  Nobody would employ you and your reputation was mud.  Today it gets you half a million extra Facebook followers.

It is a common thing in Russia for women to remain with abusive, lazy, workshy, drunken husbands because they are completely embarrassed and ashamed to be divorced.  This is especially true in the villages.  Provided the man doesn't cheat on them in a public way they tend to stick around.  In the bigger cities they divorce because of no social stigma.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2019, 02:10:39 PM »
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So, if a man finds himself in a sexless marriage, at what point and with what force of will, does he decide to separate divorce and try to obtain an annulment?  ...The clock is kinda ticking. 
Yes, I agree.  I don't know how the Church views this type of situation.  I'd bet that, in orthodox times, the answer would likely be "Nothing we can do; this is a valid marriage."  Annulments were extremely rare pre-V2.

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From your answers above it appears that a child (or I would assume a pregnancy, even if the child is lost) lessens his case for the marriage being invalid.  If children are conceived there was enough sex, even if that amounted to once per year.
I don't think marital relations are the litmus test (assuming it's happened once).  The test would be related to the intention and if there were impediments to entering the marital contract.  Such judgements did not happen often in times past (annulments were rare).  The Church relied upon the "process" of the marriage to assume it's validity, in most cases.  That is:

1.  The parish priest knew both families (as most marriages were from people from the same diocese or parish).
2.  If the priest didn't know one of the partners, he inquired with the other parish priest as to their reputation, history, etc.
3.  Assuming all that checked out, and both parties were valid catholics (with docuмents to prove reception of the sacraments and schooling, etc), then the couple would proceed with marriage classes, provided by the parish.
4.  The classes would cover the basics of the sacrament, the impediments, the responsibilities and duties.
5.  If after all of this, there was a marriage, then the Church would assume validity (assuming the marriage was consumated).

Hard to argue with the Church and cry "foul" or "annulment" when all the externals match up.  If one of the spouses goes "crazy" after marriage, then the only option that the "normal" spouse has is prayer and fasting - that God would sort things out.

Outside of this, I'd fear that the "normal" spouse is in a very difficult situation from which there is no solution, except death.  As the jews asked Christ, after He reiterated that divorce was wrong, "If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry." (Matt 19:10) 

Christ responded:  Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it(Matt 19:11-12) 

Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2019, 02:18:35 PM »
I am beginning to have more sympathy for MGTOW monks when I hear some of these horror stories.