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Author Topic: Sexless marriages and very small families  (Read 62170 times)

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Offline ggreg

Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2019, 12:09:29 PM »
How does God choose a spouse?

It appears to me that one can pray to God, listen, consult, think consider, but in the end one decides to pop the question and ultimately chooses.  Does one flip a coin and let God decide whether heads means you leave and tails means you pop the question?  Or if she turns up wearing make-up you will take that as a sign from God that she is not the woman for you?  These things would be pure superstition.  How then does God communicate His choice for you.

If all goes well in you marriage you might consider that God chose for you.  But you don't have a note or any evidence to that effect, unless you heard a voice.  It is purely a faith that God guided you.  If it goes terribly, the sort of person who thinks God guided them usually does not come to the conclusion that God got it wrong.  Since that is impossible.

The process of thinking about it in a rational way and being considerate of other factors than say beauty or youth or her outward piousness, might, I agree, be a sober and mature way to make a better decision about who to marry, (which is a good reason to involve God in the choice) but I can't see how God's actual input can ever be tested, other than if the marriage goes bad then clearly it "wasn't God's choice" or you didn't listen hard enough.  'God' in a sense is a loose approximation to 'fate'.

I've never really got this 'listen to God" thing myself.  I've been a Catholic for 50 years and never heard so much as peep back when I have prayed.  I'd like to.  I think it would be really exciting to hear voices from the other side.  I know lots of people who claim they have.  But I think they probably imagined it or told themselves they heard something.  After all plenty of people have seen UFOs too.
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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2019, 12:11:34 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 23, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
My gut tells me that most who marry have a marriage vocation but some marry the wrong person (or not the best person) because they are too impatient and don't let God guide their life sufficiently.  Since we have free will, God allows us to choose our partner but if we let Him decide, it will be the best decision.  I SUPREMELY doubt that one would have these type of problems if they allowed God to choose their spouse.  More than likely, such situations arise because people used worldly wisdom to choose a spouse instead of Divine wisdom, prayer and penance.  God can see the future; we cannot.

This is my feeling as well.

People use too many worldly criteria in choosing their spouse -- if not outright "thinking with the wrong head". Marrying a non-Catholic (or shallow Novus Ordo Catholic) is certainly an example of the latter. There is nothing of "reason" or "prudence" in yoking yourself to an unbeliever.
You can see if your future spouse is able to give of himself. Do they possess any degree of mortification? Are they selfish, or able to do things for a higher cause? You might choose to ignore this or that action or trait you observe...but you do so at your own peril.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2019, 12:13:05 PM »
If we're sharing stories, I know of a Trad married couple who separated (let's all pray they reconcile) due to one of spouses calling the other a heretic related to flat earth.  I also know of a Trad couple who was dating but it fell apart because the woman said she didn't like the word "submit" and couldn't agree with St Paul.  ...it's a crazy, crazy world out there and it's not getting any saner.  Just because they are "Trad" doesn't mean much anymore, from a philosophical standpoint.  For anyone that is in the dating world - don't. assume. ANYTHING.  Talk about ALL topics.  And pray your heart out to God for mercy and wisdom.
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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2019, 12:15:37 PM »
Quote from: ggreg on January 23, 2019, 12:09:29 PM
How does God choose a spouse?

It appears to me that one can pray to God, listen, consult, think consider, but in the end one decides to pop the question and ultimately chooses.

If all goes well you might consider that God chose for you.  But you don't have a note or any evidence to that effect.  It is purely a faith that God guided you.  If it goes terribly, the sort of person who thinks God guided them usually does not come to the conclusion that God got it wrong.

The process of thinking about it in a rational way and being considerate of other factors than say beauty or youth or her outward piousness, might, I agree, be a sober and mature way to make a better decision about who to marry, but I can't see how God's actual input can ever be tested, other than if the marriage goes bad then clearly it "wasn't God's choice" or you didn't listen hard enough.

I've never really got this 'listen to God" thing myself.  I've been a Catholic for 50 years and never heard so much as peep back when I have prayed.  I'd like to.  I think it would be really exciting to hear voices from the other side.
God's call or presence in our lives is not in the thunder of Mt. Sinai, but in the quiet of our heart -- if we ever let it be quiet.
Seeing God's will is more about being objective and using reason than "going with your heart". God =/= emotion
I have some personal stories that really show God's guidance in my life, and in hindsight you can really see His providence.

I kind of understand what you're saying, but your post above sounds like the words of an unbeliever.

This is not about doing your due diligence, putting God first, and then end up being wrong and blaming God. If you have *moral certitude* that your spouse is a good Catholic, you will probably be fine. 

With most failed marriages, there were clear signs that could have -- and should have -- been outed much earlier, had the couple seriously talked with each other instead of "dating" in a superficial manner. And like you yourself said: be a wise man. Follow the wise sayings. "Look at her family" and what not. If you do those things, you will likely be OK.

You have to do your best, and then trust in God for the rest (including the outcome and final results).

But doing your best needs to be a good faith effort, and only YOU know if you're putting in 100% effort on that...or letting a few things slip because "she's so darn hot".
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Offline ggreg

Re: Sexless marriages and very small families
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2019, 12:20:53 PM »
That's fair enough.  A good explanation.  The best I have ever heard.

So basically it is a sort of being brutally honest with yourself process and asking yourself "What would God think about this?"

Because you know that God knows your bad and good, dirty and clean motivations as well or better than you know them yourself.

Am I dating this woman because she is hot and flatters my ego or is she really a good Catholic?

That is what my father did and he has 104 offspring and clocking them up at 6 per year.
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