Author Topic: Selling Out? (Read 18523 times)

Jitpring · « **on:** March 30, 2012, 06:36:23 PM »

See:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/03/relevant-thoughts-trad-environments.html

Also read the comments. Only one commenter vigorously dissents.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:13:05 PM »

Sorry, to break it to people who don't feel like they should belong to a ghetto, but that's exactly what Vatican II was about destroying, the "bastions" of a "ghetto" Catholicism.

Of course, pseudo-trads aren't content to to leave a single stone unturned.

The chief problem with traditional communities is the lack of traditional behavior. A few relatively cosmetic issues are used to paper over the more serious failure to authentically preserve tradition.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:16:00 PM »

Wow, note the title:

The dilemmas of our bastions of faith

How on earth is this a dilemma?

Quote

A characteristic of this attitude are the words of Hans Urs van Balthasar, a former Jesuit Father, from Switzerland, who died last year. He said in the beginning of the 1950’s, that “The ‘razing of the bastions…’ was in fact an urgent duty”. What are these bastions? They are: the social bodies in the Catholic culture, a whole Catholic civilization. They comprise the family, marriage, especially the system of Catholic education and the Catholic state."These bastions", he says, "must be dismantled". That means they must be destroyed. Cardinal Ratzinger in his book, ‘Theological Principles’ edited in 1982, in Rome, refers to this word of Urs van Balthasar saying that “The ‘razing of the bastions…’ was in fact an urgent duty”.

Why has the SSPX changed its rhetoric so dramatically?

http://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Catholic-Church-and-Second-Vatican-Council.htm

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:23:03 PM »

Quote

Anyone who thinks wearing a business suit to Mass is a sign of a man's holiness doesn't even begin to understand Jesus Christ. The standards that some trads apply to women are even more ridiculous and the eccentric way women dress in some trad communities ensures that many young women that visit for Mass don't return. Modesty is not dressing provocatively. Modesty has nothing to do with adopting an Amish or Southern Protestant dress code. Bravo to Father Gaud!

This sort of statement is absolutely ridiculous.

As though dressing appropriately is dressing like the Amish.

Yes, actually believing in the religion, and dressing like you believe it, is "southern baptist"

These people liberalizers, pure and simple. Liberalizers and enemies.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:33:00 PM »

There are plenty of problems in the traditional movement.

But expecting women to wear long skirts and veils to mass is NOT one of them.

The real problems is the infiltration of feminist attitudes in a society that is absolutely opposed to the Catholic conception of the role of women, and the pandering to those attitudes by venal clergy.

Frauds and sellouts in the trad clergy need to be held to account.

Caraffa · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:46:18 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
Anyone who thinks wearing a business suit to Mass is a sign of a man's holiness doesn't even begin to understand Jesus Christ. The standards that some trads apply to women are even more ridiculous and the eccentric way women dress in some trad communities ensures that many young women that visit for Mass don't return. Modesty is not dressing provocatively. Modesty has nothing to do with adopting an Amish or Southern Protestant dress code. Bravo to Father Gaud!

This sort of statement is absolutely ridiculous.

As though dressing appropriately is dressing like the Amish.

Yes, actually believing in the religion, and dressing like you believe it, is "southern baptist"

These people liberalizers, pure and simple. Liberalizers and enemies.

Yeah, he's been reading too much Schleiermacher.

The Neo-Trads use almost the exact same tactics and same sayings that the Neo-Modernists and other Liberal Catholics used to bring down the church. See the Quiet Revolution in Quebec, specifically the change in religious mentalities that lead to it.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:56:14 PM »

Quote

Understanding what has happened to the Catholic Church means accepting conspiracy theories. Showing even the bare minimum level of respect for the Holy Mass and the Blessed Sacrament means dressing appropriately. People who are really Catholic really act like Catholics, that means, they don't complain about simple requirements that might offend the vanity of feminists or liberals who don't like hearing the truth about the new orientation of society, its fundamental opposition to Catholicism, and the duty of Catholics to oppose that orientation. If such people cannot even accept the smallest requirements I really think they are not interested in tradition but in liberalization.

I posted the above but I don't think they will put it up.

Caraffa · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2012, 08:11:15 PM »

I find it strange that they would accuse Trads who wear suits or dignified clothing to mass as southern Baptists, when many southern Baptists have a revivalist "come as you are" and "just as I am" mentality. It show that they don't know what they are talking about.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2012, 08:32:32 PM »

Quote from: Caraffa

I find it strange that they would accuse Trads who wear suits or dignified clothing to mass as southern Baptists, when many southern Baptists have a revivalist "come as you are" and "just as I am" mentality. It show that they don't know what they are talking about.

When all else fails, they talk about puritanism (to defend drunkenness), protestantism, jansenism, Americanism (which typically refers to something liberal Europeans are intolerant of), jansenism, etc. They never have to define their terms.

Most of this seems to come from a sort of liberal-leaning snobbery. The class divisions in traditional Catholicism are also pretty serious.

But the most dangerous thing, really, is that there will always be rewards waiting for those who want to impose gradual liberalization.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2012, 09:27:15 PM »

If they sign a deal, you can come to expect more of this hatred of tradition from a group "reconciled" to those who hate tradition.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2012, 09:37:37 PM »

Quote from: Seraphim

If they sign a deal, you can come to expect more of this hatred of tradition from a group "reconciled" to those who hate tradition.

I think some of them intend to stoke hatred and contempt for any traditional attitudes that they perceive to adversely affect the bottom line.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:40:00 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
Anyone who thinks wearing a business suit to Mass is a sign of a man's holiness doesn't even begin to understand Jesus Christ. The standards that some trads apply to women are even more ridiculous and the eccentric way women dress in some trad communities ensures that many young women that visit for Mass don't return. Modesty is not dressing provocatively. Modesty has nothing to do with adopting an Amish or Southern Protestant dress code. Bravo to Father Gaud!

This sort of statement is absolutely ridiculous.

As though dressing appropriately is dressing like the Amish.

Yes, actually believing in the religion, and dressing like you believe it, is "southern baptist"

These people liberalizers, pure and simple. Liberalizers and enemies.

Exactly.

What kind of so-called "traditionalist" wants to dissuade Catholic women from dressing modestly at Mass?

This character uses words like "eccentric" and "ridiculous" to describe noble Catholic women.

He then lousily compares how they dress to Amish and Southern protestants.

When I see Catholic women dressed properly with skirts covering their ankles at Mass - or anywhere else - I feel

real respect for them.

Let us salute these virtuous Catholic women.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:58:39 PM »

...this is why I don't usually bother reading sites like Rorate Caeli.

They are often filled with Liberalism, which just leaves any real Catholic feeling frustrated and annoyed.

There is more good sense spoken on CathInfo than on a dozen of these faux-traditionalist sites put together.

Although we have not all yet come to the same conclusion about the status of Benny Boy, most people on CathInfo have an

understanding of the Faith.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:19:49 PM »

Rorate Caeli and AQ and FE and that kind of site seem to be full of people who are very dissatisfied with traditional

Catholicism.

Also, on sites like FE you have to search around to find a thread that is interesting enough to even bother reading.

Let alone bothering to post on.

Most of these other forums are often boring.

On CathInfo, many of the threads are deeply absorbing.

This is actually somewhere I want to post.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:22:55 PM »

Also, we can speak the truth on CathInfo without getting banned.

That is a remarkable and a precious thing.

That is possibly the most valuable thing about CathInfo.

That it is a medium for the truth.