it is the problem of the one who is judging....isn't it?

Only if their judgment is incorrect. Read this great book and find out:

http://www.basilica.org/pages/ebooks/Fr.%20Cajetan%20Mary%20da%20Bergamo-Humility%20of%20Heart.html

Buy it here:

http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/47/

Any resistance to this suggestion is yet another sign that you need to read it.

ps to s2srea....I believe it is important for Catholics to be able to fit in and cope in the modern world that God has created and chosen for us to live in.  One can still be a Catholic today and function normally while holding fast to the faith...actually, the sooner most trads realize this, the better off they will be...I've been accused of being stuck up and arrogant before, I am sure...do I care?  No.

I disagree with this. Catholics should not try to "fit in" with the modern world, that can easily lead to a Catholic losing their faith.

As for modesty, I think it is very important. Padre Pio thought so, too.

I should also add that any woman who entered Padre Pio's confessional who's skirt was NOT below the knees was dismissed. Enough said.

Quote from: Graham

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: s2srea

Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?

Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day... the "style" of the day if you will

You're probably wrong. I would be very surprised if early Christian women in Rome were not required to dress more simply and modestly than the pagan women around them, who probably thought them quite frumpy and prudish, at least till they converted. The fact that some of the earliest Church fathers, along with St. Paul himself, spent time and even wrote books exhorting their flocks to avoid vain fashions is powerful evidence for this; for why would they have gone to such effort unless to make Catholics dress differently from the mode of the day? They wouldn't have.

What I can say for certain is that never before have tight jeans, spandex yoga pants, short shorts, and so on been the mode for women under 30. I do not say that you want Catholic women to dress this way, but the logic of your argument ("dress in the mode of the day") takes us there inevitably. So we either go the whole hog and admit that immodesty can be modest, a la FE, or we admit that there are other principles involved, and which can require that we dress differently from the world.

How do you Christianize tight jeans and short shorts? You can't. You don't even try.

Quote

...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?  No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs.  Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?  

This doesn't connect with anything I've ever experienced in the SSPX, and it reads like a tantrum.

Interestingly, I saw that third photo or yours posted on FE about a month ago, in yet another post mocking at some bogeyman of prudish, sour-faced protestantism within the SSPX. Like that is how SSPX men want you to look.  :rolleyes:

The fact that clothing and fashion are such personal issues for women is why men need to set rules about them. It is a perennial battle to keep women dressed modestly; the ancients at least recognized that vanity is a feminine vice. But I think you will find that we don't want you to look frumpy, either.

I was talking...not having a tantrum.  You have one thing very wrong...men don't and shouldn't set the rules of what women wear...women set the rules, and they know how to guide their husbands on dressing well and properly...men need to stay out of the fashion industry as well as out of the closets of their wives...it is the wifes realm...no wonder the world has sunk so low in the fashion sense...most of the designers are gαy men.

With your saying this:

"The fact that clothing and fashion are such personal issues for women is why men need to set rules about them. It is a perennial battle to keep women dressed modestly; the ancients at least recognized that vanity is a feminine vice."

alarm bells go off...sounds very much like something a cult leader would say.

   Your desire to set rules and be manly puts you one step away from lesbianism.

Quote from: Jitpring

Quote from: bernadette

another of modern Spanish women in Mantilla and wearing scapular.

With skirts above their knees.

Oh Lord...you're not going to tell me that those older and dignified women with skirts a little over the knee, is an occasion of sin are you?  This is what happens when trad men think they are the final word in everything.  Thinking a little too much about matters outside of your expertise, and not concentrating on more important issues...like the faith.

Bern-

   Can I ask in good faith if you are a lesbian?

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: Jitpring

Quote from: bernadette

another of modern Spanish women in Mantilla and wearing scapular.

With skirts above their knees.

Oh Lord...you're not going to tell me that those older and dignified women with skirts a little over the knee, is an occasion of sin are you?  This is what happens when trad men think they are the final word in everything.  Thinking a little too much about matters outside of your expertise, and not concentrating on more important issues...like the faith.

Bern-

   Can I ask in good faith if you are a lesbian?

You can ask anything you like, as long as you truly ask it in good faith.  The answer is no. And somehow...I don't really believe that you ask in good faith, but rather to plant seeds of evil thinking.

Now, why don't you ask if St. Catherine of Siena was a lesbian, or perhaps St. Joan of Arc...even sweet, humble, childlike, St. Bernadette...perhaps you may like to question her too.

Catholics sort of have to...fit in that is.

You seem to be unaware of, or have forgotten about, the chasm separating the elect from those of the world. Consider:

"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?"

-Mk. 8:36

"Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God."

-James 4:4

"Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him."

-1 Jn. 2:15

Such passages could be greatly multiplied. Is the world applauding you? Shudder.

And meditate on this from St. Louis de Montfort's Letter to the Friends of the Cross:

7. My dear brothers and sisters, there are two companies that appear before you each day: the followers of Christ and the followers of the world.

Our dear Saviour's company is on the right, climbing up a narrow road, made all the narrower by the world's immorality. Our Master leads the way, barefooted, crowned with thorns, covered with blood, and laden with a heavy cross. Those who follow him, though most valiant, are only a handful, either because his quiet voice is not heard amid the tumult of the world, or because people lack the courage to follow him in his poverty, sufferings, humiliations and other crosses which his servants must carry all the days of their life.

8. On the left hand is the company of the world or of the devil. This is far more numerous, more imposing and more illustrious, at least in appearance. Most of the fashionable people run to join it, all crowded together, although the road is wide and is continually being made wider than ever by the crowds that pour along it like a torrent. It is strewn with flowers, bordered with all kinds of amusements and attractions, and paved with gold and silver.

9. On the right, the little groups which follow Jesus speak about sorrow and penance, prayer and indifference to worldly things. They continually encourage one another saying, "Now is the time to suffer and to mourn, to pray and do penance, to live in retirement and poverty, to humble and mortify ourselves; for those who do not possess the spirit of Christ, which is the spirit of the cross, do not belong to him. Those who belong to Christ have crucified all self-indulgent passions and desires. We must be true images of Christ or be eternally lost."

"Have confidence," they say to each other. If God is on our side, within us and before us, who can be against us? He who is within us is stronger than the one who is in the world. The servant is not greater than his master. This slight and temporary distress we suffer will bring us a tremendous and everlasting glory. The number of those who will be saved is not as great as some people imagine. It is only the brave and the daring who take heaven by storm, where only those are crowned who strive to live according to the law of the Gospel and not according to the maxims of the world. Let us fight with all our strength, let us run with all speed, that we may attain our goal and win the crown.

Such are some of the heavenly counsels with which the Friends of the Cross inspire each other.

10. Those who follow the world, on the contrary, urge each other to continue in their evil ways without scruple, calling to one another day after day, "Let us eat and drink, sing and dance, and enjoy ourselves. God id good; he has not made us to damn us. He does not forbid us to amuse ourselves. We shall not be damned for so little. We are not to be scrupulous. 'No, you will not die'."

11. Dear brothers and sisters, remember that our loving Saviour has his eyes on you at this moment, and he says to each one of you individually, "See how almost everyone deserts me on the royal road of the Cross. Pagans in their blindness ridicule my Cross as foolishness; obstinate Jews are repelled by it as by an object of horror; heretics pull it down and break it to pieces as something contemptible.

"Even my own people - and I say this with tears in my eyes and grief in my heart - my own children whom I have brought up and instructed in my ways, my members whom I have quickened with my own Spirit, have turned their backs on me and forsaken me by becoming enemies of my Cross. 'Will you also go away?' Will you also desert me by running away from my Cross like the worldlings, who thus become so many antichrists? Will you also follow the world; despise the poverty of my Cross in order to seek after wealth; shun the sufferings of my Cross to look for enjoyment; avoid the humiliations of my Cross in order to chase after the honours of the world? 'There are many who pretend they are friends of mine and protest that they love me, but in their hearts they hate me. I have many friends of my table, but very few of my Cross.' (Imit. II, 11, 1)."

12. At this loving appeal of Jesus, let us rise above our human nature; let us not be seduced by our senses, as Eve was; but keep our eyes fixed on Jesus crucified, who leads us in our faith and brings it to perfection (Heb 12.2). Let us keep ourselves apart from the evil practices of the world; let us show our love for Jesus in the best way, that is, through all kinds of crosses. Reflect well on these remarkable words of our Saviour, "If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself, and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16.24; Lk 9.23).

II. THE PRACTICES OF CHRISTIAN PERFECTION

13. Christian holiness consists in this:

1. Resolving to become a saint: "If anyone wants to be a follower of mine;"2. Self-denial: "Let him renounce himself;"3. Suffering: "Let him take up his cross;"4. Acting: "Let him follow me."

A. If anyone wants to follow me

14. If anyone," says our Lord, to point out the small number of chosen ones willing to conform themselves to Christ crucified by carrying their cross. Their number is so small that we would be dumbfounded if we knew it.

It is so small that there is scarcely one in ten thousand, as has been revealed to several saints, including St. Simon Stylites (as is related by Abbot Nilus), St. Basil, St. Ephrem and others. It is so small that, should it please God to gather them together, he would have to call them one by one as he did of old through his prophet, "You will be gathered one by one;" one from this country, one from that province.