Author Topic: Selling Out? (Read 20146 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #45 on:** March 31, 2012, 02:23:13 PM »

Quote from: clare

It is, however, characteristic of the conduct of people of good judgment, never to attract attention to themselves in anyway.

The problem with that line of thinking is that the costume of all those time periods (at least among women) were for the most part in keeping with Catholic principles of modesty. The only way women really pushed the envelope from time to time was in the matter of decolletage.

What's happened today is that we no longer live in a Christian society. So our dress, by necessity, may have to deviate from the rest of the population.

wallflower · « **Reply #46 on:** March 31, 2012, 02:29:02 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

Why wouldn't your wife show good taste and good moral judgement? You wouldn't of married an immoral woman thinking you could change her, would you? That is about the same logic as a woman who marries an abusive husband thinking she can change HIM.

Why does he have to marry an immoral woman for her to need guidance?

There seems no room in your mind for anything but extremes.

Are regular women not tempted by vanity and immodest fashions too?

Am I the only trad woman in the world to lose the baby weight, feel great and be tempted to show it off a bit more than I should? Perhaps I am the only trad woman to need the reality check of DH saying "Uh, honey, I know you feel great and believe me you look great but you've been buying pretty tight clothes lately. Any way we could reel that in a bit?"

Either I am a freak exception or he could easily marry a lovely modest-minded trad woman and at some point in 50 years of marriage need to speak up about her tastes or temptations in that realm. What he said is not far-fetched at all.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #47 on:** March 31, 2012, 03:53:19 PM »

Quote from: clare

Quote from: Seraphim
Quote from: bernadette
Point out what is dumb so I can think about it...will you?

That a Catholic would have any concern whatever for modern fashions.

Quote
The best way to judge the appropriateness of clothing is by custom; follow it without fail. Because the human spirit is prone to change and the things that pleased us yesterday no longer do so today, there have been invented, and are still being invented every day, all sorts of different ways of dressing to satisfy this changing spirit. Those who would want to dress as people did 30 years ago would make themselves look ridiculous and eccentric. It is, however, characteristic of the conduct of people of good judgment, never to attract attention to themselves in any way.

- St John Baptist de La Salle, page 49, The Rules of Christian Decorum and Civility

Within reason, of course!

The Saint did not mean what he said in an absolute sense, however. The problem with today's fashions is that it seems that almost all of them are corrupt. So, one must indeed make an effort not to be eccentric, drawing attention to oneself, but this insofar that adjusting to the custom does not become a sin.

Since the present apostate world considers loving God and living holy lives 'eccentric', the referring of the Saint to real eccentricity does, in most cases, not apply to the present state of things.

Now, since I do not live in America, I have no precise knowledge of what the general practice is among traditional Catholics there. So, I do not know whether there are many Catholics there who truly dress in an eccentric way. But I have not noticed much eccentricity (in the sense of looking truly weird) among traditional Catholics in my own country. If anything, it is my opinion that some here (in my country) seem to be, to a certain extent, too influenced by the world when it comes to dress.

Ironically, to me the modern fashions fit the definition of eccentricity quite well, in contrast with the customs of saner, more Catholic times. The world has become a circus, and absurdity has become exalted as the 'norm'.

When I hear someone say that long skirts are 'eccentric', I cannot help but think of the revolutionaries of the sixties who temerariously attempted to compel nuns to abandon their habits for secular clothing which was more revealing. Terrible.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #48 on:** March 31, 2012, 04:35:40 PM »

Quote from: Caraffa

Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
Anyone who thinks wearing a business suit to Mass is a sign of a man's holiness doesn't even begin to understand Jesus Christ. The standards that some trads apply to women are even more ridiculous and the eccentric way women dress in some trad communities ensures that many young women that visit for Mass don't return. Modesty is not dressing provocatively. Modesty has nothing to do with adopting an Amish or Southern Protestant dress code. Bravo to Father Gaud!

This sort of statement is absolutely ridiculous.

As though dressing appropriately is dressing like the Amish.

Yes, actually believing in the religion, and dressing like you believe it, is "southern baptist"

These people liberalizers, pure and simple. Liberalizers and enemies.

Yeah, he's been reading too much Schleiermacher.

The Neo-Trads use almost the exact same tactics and same sayings that the Neo-Modernists and other Liberal Catholics used to bring down the church. See the Quiet Revolution in Quebec, specifically the change in religious mentalities that lead to it.

You woulnd't perhaps have any references, would you?

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #49 on:** March 31, 2012, 04:40:34 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: Seraphim
Quote from: bernadette
Quote from: Seraphim
Quote from: bernadette
Quote from: s2srea
Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?

Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"? No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs. Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?

Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LEZVADmDZ1U/Tlr4vNI_pfI/AAAAAAAAB3g/c2PEoteBkPU/s1600/Isabella+II+of+Spain+1865.jpg

Beautiful, elegant and stylish for the day...here is a modern photo:
http://static.photaki.com/spanish-mantilla-clad-women-and-scapular_427860.jpg

How beautiful...it sure beats this:
http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/polyg_women_TX.jpg

Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.

This has to be one of the dumber posts ever to appear on this forum.

Point out what is dumb so I can think about it...will you?

That a Catholic would have any concern whatever for modern fashions.

If you are perturbed that Catholic women can't show their boobs and thighs, too bad for you.

Our Lady warned us that these immoral fashions would come.

Yet it never occurs to you that the reason trads are "stuck in the 1950's" with their attire is because that is as close to the modern times as you can get without violating Catholic norms of modesty and femininity.

Oh please...give me a break. You know when I first came to tradition, I was as asinine as you in my thinking. I've since gain my senses and my logic, escaped from the tendency towards cultish behavior and consipracy theories, realized that fashion/style is not the same as modesty. Women can look stylish and fashionable, wear make-up and nail polish..and still be modest, so your narrow mindedness falls flat on its face.

Trads shouldn't be "stuck" in any era, the fifties included...move on already...this is 2012 the year of Our Lord...let's deal with regaining the traditions of the Church not the fashion traditions of the biblical era.

I'm sorry...but there are few women who go to church dressed immorally...tacky, yes, immoral, no...

Here is one of the replies from the article on RC...it sums things up real well:
"If you make yourselves like a bunch of outcasts, reasonable people will cast you out. Make sure that when you are persecuted, it is for some critical point of faith or morals and not for looking like you just walked out of a time machine."

Show me a period where the Church wasn't challenging the way people were dressing and questioning the modesty or lack thereof of certain people for their adherence to the fashions of the day rather than the modest composure of a Christian.

Pants, for example, were worn by feminist members of the women's movement, like the homewrecker hussy, Katherine Hepburn.

Also, most women's fashions are designed by misogynistic sodomites.

bernadette · « **Reply #50 on:** March 31, 2012, 05:39:07 PM »

Show me a period where they did..outside of the 20th century.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #51 on:** March 31, 2012, 05:44:28 PM »

Quote from: Augstine Baker

Also, most women's fashions are designed by misogynistic sodomites.

It is true, and what many fail to recognise is that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, having progressed in degeneration roughly to the point of incorporation as "lifestyle", also embodies perversion of the intellect. The intellectual perversion can well exceed attendant carnal misbehaviour, and one of its manifestations is the enjoyment of people debasing themselves, in any manner whatsoever. This is why the old "as long as he's celibate" saw regarding clergy is so diabolical.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #52 on:** March 31, 2012, 05:48:12 PM »

Feminists lack logic when they try to use reason.

Feminists seem incapable of perceiving obvious truths.

Feminists frequently seem incapable of actually using logic coherently when they try to argue their futile case.

It should be obvious to ANY Catholic man or woman, that women should dress entirely modestly.

Conforming to the "fashion" of an anti-Catholic culture should not be the basis of how women decide to dress.

It is clearly sinful to set aside - or even to compromise - dressing modestly.

These points are so clear to a mind not clouded by emotion.

Women should dress modestly because that is obviously the Will of God.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #53 on:** March 31, 2012, 05:56:55 PM »

Quote from: ultrarigorist

"as long as he's celibate" saw regarding clergy is so diabolical.

Right, I meant to say: ""as long as he's celibate" saw regarding poufey clergy". There's a real problem with such serving in the role of Alter Christus.

s2srea · « **Reply #54 on:** March 31, 2012, 06:05:27 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

Show me a period where they did..outside of the 20th century.

Bernadette- is there a reason you're in such an argumentative mood? Did you not figure out this wasn't AngelQueen or FE yet?

You speak of regaining the traditions of the Church; but modesty is a tradition too. Why else would people cover themselves, and act appropriately? Otherwise we're just like animals.

By the way, you are very modernist sounding; sort of stuck up arrogant. Have a look:

Quote

Oh please...give me a break. You know when I first came to tradition, I was as asinine as you in my thinking. I've since gain my senses and my logic, escaped from the tendency towards cultish behavior and consipracy theories, realized that fashion/style is not the same as modesty. Women can look stylish and fashionable, wear make-up and nail polish..and still be modest, so your narrow mindedness falls flat on its face.

Trads shouldn't be "stuck" in any era, the fifties included...move on already...this is 2012 the year of Our Lord...let's deal with regaining the traditions of the Church not the fashion traditions of the biblical era.

I'm sorry...but there are few women who go to church dressed immorally...tacky, yes, immoral, no...

I think you might do well to take your own advice: "move on already"...

Cheers!

Diego · « **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2012, 06:32:59 PM »

What practicing Catholic takes any stock in Rorate?

It is run by a Judaizing convert who has zero sensus catholicus—a popolator (or anti-popolator if you prefer).

Rubbish.

bernadette · « **Reply #56 on:** March 31, 2012, 07:01:52 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: bernadette
Show me a period where they did..outside of the 20th century.

Bernadette- is there a reason you're in such an argumentative mood? Did you not figure out this wasn't AngelQueen or FE yet?

You speak of regaining the traditions of the Church; but modesty is a tradition too. Why else would people cover themselves, and act appropriately? Otherwise we're just like animals.

By the way, you are very modernist sounding; sort of stuck up arrogant. Have a look:

Quote
Oh please...give me a break. You know when I first came to tradition, I was as asinine as you in my thinking. I've since gain my senses and my logic, escaped from the tendency towards cultish behavior and consipracy theories, realized that fashion/style is not the same as modesty. Women can look stylish and fashionable, wear make-up and nail polish..and still be modest, so your narrow mindedness falls flat on its face.

Trads shouldn't be "stuck" in any era, the fifties included...move on already...this is 2012 the year of Our Lord...let's deal with regaining the traditions of the Church not the fashion traditions of the biblical era.

I'm sorry...but there are few women who go to church dressed immorally...tacky, yes, immoral, no...

I think you might do well to take your own advice: "move on already"...

Cheers!

The two photos I posted were not immodest...they were beautiful...Queen Isabella of Spain and another of modern Spanish women in Mantilla and wearing scapular. Both photos give the example that Catholic women have always set the proper style for the rest of society to follow.

There is a danger in becoming too obsessed with this modesty= no style confusion in most trads minds, resulting in beauty being at risk of being lost if not frowned upon. If you are going to argue that beauty and style are not important and seem to mean one is automatically worldly by dressing stylishly or beautifully though modestly, then you will be shooting yourself in the foot...the rich ornate vestments and use of the finest laces and precious metals are encouraged in traditional vestments and in liturgical use...yet to have the pews filled with women dressed as though they belong on the prairie or in a cult is not important? I'm sorry, I disagree....I think it is important to strive to better oneself, to dress in the finest clothes that one can afford, to look attractive and cheerful...why not encourage elevating oneself rather than the complete opposite?

Cheers!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #57 on:** March 31, 2012, 07:06:20 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:

You posted a picture of Queen Isabella II. I do not think she was a great Catholic lady.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #58 on:** March 31, 2012, 07:11:44 PM »

The fat under her chin reminds me of that girl.

bernadette · « **Reply #59 on:** March 31, 2012, 07:16:31 PM »

ps to s2srea....I believe it is important for Catholics to be able to fit in and cope in the modern world that God has created and chosen for us to live in. One can still be a Catholic today and function normally while holding fast to the faith...actually, the sooner most trads realize this, the better off they will be...I've been accused of being stuck up and arrogant before, I am sure...do I care? No.